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Old 07-02-2009   #1
jppaul
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Default CB Stats from around the league

I didn't know if this has been posted here before apologize if it has.

I was having trouble finding stats on CBs, which aren't really documented as extensively as they should be, and I found this:

http://atlantafalconstalk.com/atlant...tats-included/

This guy is a nut he reviewed all 256 regular season games and documented every single throw at cornerbacks and compiled stats. Ridicolous how much effort that would take. Assuming no DVR, and 3 hours a game, you are looking at 768 hours, or four and a half weeks 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

Anyway here are the stats for CBs in our division that he ranked (only the top 50 in his opinion were ranked):

12. Kelvin Hayden, Indianapolis Colts
Season Totals: 42 attempts, 6.21 YPA, 45.24 Forced INC%, 1 TD, 3 INTs

16. Nick Harper, Tennessee Titans
Season Totals: 85 attempts, 5.81 YPA, 38.82 Forced INC%, 2 TDs, 2 INTs

22. Cortland Finnegan, Tennessee Titans
Season Totals: 79 attempts, 7.66 YPA, 44.30 Forced INC%, 0 TDs, 5 INTs

38. Rashean Mathis, Jacksonville Jaguars
Season Totals: 59 attempts, 7.41 YPA, 40.68 Forced INC%, 4 TDs, 4 INTs

47. Fred Bennett, Houston Texans
Season Totals: 58 attempts, 7.88 YPA, 31.03 Forced INC%, 3 TDs, 2 INTs

48. Jacques Reeves, Houston Texans
Season Totals: 96 attempts, 7.93 YPA, 32.29 Forced INC%, 2 TDs, 4 INTs
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Old 07-02-2009   #2
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Default Re: CB Stats from around the league

Where's Dunta Robinson? He's got to be in the Top 10 at least since he considers himself one of the best CBs in the NFL
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Old 07-02-2009   #3
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Default Re: CB Stats from around the league

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Originally Posted by jppaul View Post
47. Fred Bennett, Houston Texans
Season Totals: 58 attempts, 7.88 YPA, 31.03 Forced INC%, 3 TDs, 2 INTs

48. Jacques Reeves, Houston Texans
Season Totals: 96 attempts, 7.93 YPA, 32.29 Forced INC%, 2 TDs, 4 INTs
What is the metric for grading here? Reeves had at least twice the playing time (frankly I am surprised to see Bennett had 58 attempts against him in pretty limited time) and on every metric mentioned but ypa Reeves won. That particularly becomes important on TD's - half the attempts and more TD's for Bennett while best you can say is would have equaled or had one more INT with equal playing time.

One stat I have always thought should be kept for CB's that would be much more telling than most is number of attempts over number of passing plays on field. The Texans faced 471 passing attempts last year. Reeves was out there all or nearly all of those plays. So targeted about 23% of the time. How many plays was Bennett on the field? If it was 150 he is looking at targeted 36%ish of the time while if it was 250 plays it was more like Reeves' %.

This is no slam on Bennett, just an observation. I think we have gotten rid of a significant problem in Hoke.
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Old 07-02-2009   #4
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Default Re: CB Stats from around the league

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
What is the metric for grading here? Reeves had at least twice the playing time (frankly I am surprised to see Bennett had 58 attempts against him in pretty limited time) and on every metric mentioned but ypa Reeves won. That particularly becomes important on TD's - half the attempts and more TD's for Bennett while best you can say is would have equaled or had one more INT with equal playing time.

One stat I have always thought should be kept for CB's that would be much more telling than most is number of attempts over number of passing plays on field. The Texans faced 471 passing attempts last year. Reeves was out there all or nearly all of those plays. So targeted about 23% of the time. How many plays was Bennett on the field? If it was 150 he is looking at targeted 36%ish of the time while if it was 250 plays it was more like Reeves' %.

This is no slam on Bennett, just an observation. I think we have gotten rid of a significant problem in Hoke.
Reeves did not have twice the playing time Bennett did.
They just targeted him more.
Why?
Because he was the best CB on our team?
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Old 07-02-2009   #5
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Default Re: CB Stats from around the league

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Reeves did not have twice the playing time Bennett did.They just targeted him more.
Why?
Because he was the best CB on our team?
Yes he did. Bennett lost the starting job to Faggins in the preseason and was essentially our nickel corner. They began sharing time fairly evenly by October... Then, Dunta returned to the lineup and Bennett was again the nickel corner. Reeves, on the other hand, almost never left the field.


and yes, Reeves was the team's best CB last season.
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Old 07-02-2009   #6
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Default Re: CB Stats from around the league

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Reeves did not have twice the playing time Bennett did.
If you say so. Bennett started 6 games. Point being he was not on the field as much as Reeves.

Quote:
They just targeted him more.
Why?
Because he was the best CB on our team?
While that is often a valid comment for CB's, not so much last year for Bennett if you are implying teams were throwing away from him because they clearly were not.

But let's see what happened when each was targeted:

Bennett - 10.3% pass defensed, 5.2% TD, 3.4% INT
Reeves - 19.8% pass defensed, 2% TD, 4.1% INT

And for further perspective, only 1 of Bennett's 6 passes defensed came as a starter and neither of his INT's.
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Old 07-02-2009   #7
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Default Re: CB Stats from around the league

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
If you say so. Bennett started 6 games. Point being he was not on the field as much as Reeves.



While that is often a valid comment for CB's, not so much last year for Bennett if you are implying teams were throwing away from him because they clearly were not.

But let's see what happened when each was targeted:

Bennett - 10.3% pass defensed, 5.2% TD, 3.4% INT
Reeves - 19.8% pass defensed, 2% TD, 4.1% INT

And for further perspective, only 1 of Bennett's 6 passes defensed came as a starter and neither of his INT's.
Yes, Reeves had more playing time then Bennett, just not twice as much!

Strictly numbers, there are certain things they left out:
The number of penalties called against that CB, and the effects on the game.
The number of times a QB misses an easy throw to the receiver.
The number of times a receiver drop a pass.
The number of times the receivers were open on a CB's watch, but the QB couldn't get him the ball for various reasons.
The number of tackles a CB misses in the running game.
The number of times a CB misses an assignment on a run play; or on a pass play when the safeties or somebody else had to cover for him.
The number of times the QB get a sack, or threw the ball away 'cause a CB had tight coverage on his receiver.

Things like that!

Our best CB is the one who's asking for the most money right now.
Sure I think he's wanting too much, but that's a different story.
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Old 07-02-2009   #8
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Default Re: CB Stats from around the league

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
If you say so. Bennett started 6 games. Point being he was not on the field as much as Reeves.



While that is often a valid comment for CB's, not so much last year for Bennett if you are implying teams were throwing away from him because they clearly were not.

But let's see what happened when each was targeted:

Bennett - 10.3% pass defensed, 5.2% TD, 3.4% INT
Reeves - 19.8% pass defensed, 2% TD, 4.1% INT

And for further perspective, only 1 of Bennett's 6 passes defensed came as a starter and neither of his INT's.
I read Lindy's football preview the other day, and there some pretty interesting stats in there, that Robinson had 67 % of all passes thrown at him completed, Reeves had something like 50%.

Another Quote from Football Outsiders that I found depressingly entertaining:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/aud...ters-speak-afc

Defensive backs: Fred Bennett is still the best the Texans have and his benching (which I'll get into later) was inexplicable. Jacque Reeves has played a little better than I thought he would, which means he has been below average: He was abused by Bernard Berrian in Week 8. Dunta Robinson has come back from knee surgery and played like he has a clubfoot. I'm thinking he needs to be a safety for the rest of the year if he does play. Demarcus "The Cushion" Faggins has been absolutely dreadful for the second year in a row. You may remember him from such plays as "96-yard touchdown to Calvin Johnson" and as an extra in "Missed tackles in every carry against the Texans for more than 20 yards since 2005."

One of my favorite assertions of the season was in Week 4 when the Texans were up against the Colts and everyone and their mom told you that with both starting safeties out, the Texans were going to be even more vulnerable to the pass. First of all, telling someone to start Colts against the Texans is not exactly rocket science. Secondly, the Texans losing both safeties is sort of like when the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail lost both of his legs; I guess theoretically it weakened them, but overall it was pretty redundant. Will Demps and Eugene Wilson are the Texans' best pair of safeties, but neither of them are much in deep coverage, and when your best safeties coming over in back-to-back years as training camp free agents, that's a pretty damning indictment of your in-house options. Brandon Harrison showed absolutely no reason to play him ever again. Nick Ferguson is the same all-run, no-pass safety he has always been, only now he's old. C.C. Brown is still dreadful, and losing him was a blessing in disguise.

Overall thoughts: The offensive play-calling has improved as Kyle Shanahan has gotten experience, but it's still been very vanilla and mostly run out of the I. The Texans almost always have a man in motion before the snap, something I'd like to see how they'd do without, because they've been very turnover prone this year and I wonder if getting rid of the excess motion would help with that.

Defensive coordinator Richard Smith needs to be fired. Now. He has patently refused to let his rookies and young players like Bennett and Antuan Molden see the field even despite the failings of everyone in front of them. Is there any reason left to not see how the rookies have done? Why is Demarcus Faggins still on the roster?

Second complaint: Smith almost never blitzes. We have a column where we are supposed to mark rushers on pass plays. Before I start charting my half, I usually just mark down "4" on every pass play the Texans run, knowing that I will maybe change two or three of them at the most. And when he does send a blitz, it's often a terribly designed blitz. One play against the Lions sent Dunta Robinson from the inside on a corner blitz. This was his second game back from his injury. By the time Dunta was even at the line of scrimmage, Dan Orlovsky had thrown the ball. Mario Williams is a great start to a pass rush, and maybe the personnel in place isn't optimal for blitzing, but if the Texans defense is so bad, shouldn't they be trying to force more big plays? Don't they need those turnovers? I just don't see how any rational person could keep doing what he's doing.

I'd expect this team to get in a few shootouts, but at this point I think a realistic record to end the season is 6-10 or 7-9. This is not a playoff team, and once again they should be spending their draft picks and dollars on defense during the offseason, hopefully with a new coordinator to actually try to exploit them.

Read the rest of the link it really is pretty accurate.

Last edited by jppaul; 07-02-2009 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 07-02-2009   #9
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Default Re: CB Stats from around the league

I found the rest of this so entertaining that I just posted it, if this is in violation of board rules, my bad). It is a cut and paste from a huge league review article so I am not sure where this fits in the cut and paste policy.

Note: Its from around Thanksgiving

Chris McCown
Houston Texans

Quarterback: Both Matt Schaub and Sage Rosenfels are solid quarterbacks, but their big numbers are all a product of the receiving corps in general and Andre Johnson in particular. Schaub has a few annoying tendencies: His passes tend to get batted down at the line, he has his Favre moments (usually a result of staring down the intended receiver), and, fair or unfair, he isn't exactly durable. I know that the MCL tear was a late hit, and he was deathly ill for the Colts game, but he has still missed a lot of time for a quarterback over the past few years. When Rosenfels comes in the Texans spread the offense out a little more, and they like to put him in the shotgun. I believe they think his field vision is better than Schaub's. Unfortunately, both the games he's played in thus far have been marred by a ton of mental errors that have overshadowed how stellar he has otherwise been.

Running back: Only two runners of any consequence. Steve Slaton has been everything you've heard and more. A plurality of his runs for big gains come from yards after the catch. Ahman Green is still very explosive for those five plays a game before he hurts himself again. He easily beats Slaton to the line, but it takes less contact to bring down. Vonta Leach has been admirable enough as a blocking back. He has had a few big plays, but the Texans still run a few too many offensive plays to him. At least they've stopped splitting him out wide.

Receivers: Easily the best group on the team. Andre Johnson's only flaw is that he can sometimes catch a case of the drops. Kevin Walter is a solid receiver, but also very good in the blocking game -- the Texans love to put him in motion to the side of the run -- and is good to be involved in a few trick plays or screens a game. Owen Daniels also spends a lot of time presnap in motion, and while his blocking is still rough, this year the Texans have been sending him out so much it's been irrelevant. Andre Davis and Jacoby Jones are both cut from the same cloth: deep threats on offense and return threats on special teams. Davis is a bit less raw on slants and such. Without Mark Breuner around, it's hard to make fun of his diminished blocking skills.

Offensive line: Here's where the problems start again. Boy, bet you thought you were done with that mantra, huh? Lets start with the good. Both the starting guards, Mike Briesel and Chester Pitts, have been very stellar. Pitts is still the best of the Texans at getting to the second level on pulls and tosses. That was short.

Eric Winston has regressed some thus far this year, but at least he has tended to bury most of his bad plays in the same couple of games. Duane Brown had a solid first few weeks but has been abysmal ever since; any bull rush with speed has him scrambling, and he has spent more time laying on the ground than Jenna Jameson. The biggest data point was Week 8 against Minnesota when Jared Allen took him to the woodshed, but Winston was even getting dominated by NFL legends such as Robert Geathers and Jared DeVries. Now you can see why Eprhaim Salaam has been getting some series in relief.

Finally we come to the David Eckstein of football, one starting center Chris Myers. I admire Chris greatly. He puts in a ton of effort, he makes decent snap calls, and by all accounts he seems to be a standup guy and skilled at what he does. Unfortunately, the NFL is full of these linemen that can generate enough force to send his listed 300-pound frame backwards often enough to make his starting role a bit of a stretch. This was perhaps best demonstrated by Steelers linebacker James Harrison, who sent him back so far on a stretch play that he essentially tackled his own rusher, but over the course of the year, many a pocket has broken down as he has been overpowered.

Defensive line: I can flatter Mario Williams with a ton of superlatives, but instead I'll just call him what he is: a one-man pass rush. Undrafted rookie Tim Bulman has been a nice change of pace. He doesn't rush the passer extremely well, but he is great at shuffling over on the run to get stops. Occasionally Earl Cochran and Amobi Okoye remind you that they are around, but they have generally been mediocre or worse. I'm not sure if Travis Johnson and Anthony Weaver even really play football, because after I see their pictures in the starting lineup, I never hear their names the rest of the game. Perhaps if we find Trent Green again, that will provoke Johnson to show up and shout at people.

Linebacker: DeMeco Ryans has been playing injured since Week 3, and it has shown. He's noticeably slower in pass coverage and doesn't have the same burst coming off the line on the run anymore. He makes some plays on guile and football smarts, but otherwise has been inadequate. Before Zac Diles broke his leg, he was having a decent season as a first-time starter, but I think he's eventually going to become a two-down rush specialist. He looks lost in coverage. Morlon Greenwood has entered that phase of his career where if he were a celebrity, he'd be appearing on late-night infomercials, like Bowser from Sha Na Na.

Last edited by jppaul; 07-02-2009 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 07-02-2009   #10
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Default Re: CB Stats from around the league

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Originally Posted by jppaul View Post

One of my favorite assertions of the season was in Week 4 when the Texans were up against the Colts and everyone and their mom told you that with both starting safeties out, the Texans were going to be even more vulnerable to the pass. First of all, telling someone to start Colts against the Texans is not exactly rocket science. Secondly, the Texans losing both safeties is sort of like when the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail lost both of his legs; I guess theoretically it weakened them, but overall it was pretty redundant. Will Demps and Eugene Wilson are the Texans' best pair of safeties, but neither of them are much in deep coverage, and when your best safeties coming over in back-to-back years as training camp free agents, that's a pretty damning indictment of your in-house options. Brandon Harrison showed absolutely no reason to play him ever again. Nick Ferguson is the same all-run, no-pass safety he has always been, only now he's old. C.C. Brown is still dreadful, and losing him was a blessing in disguise.

Second complaint: Smith almost never blitzes. We have a column where we are supposed to mark rushers on pass plays. Before I start charting my half, I usually just mark down "4" on every pass play the Texans run, knowing that I will maybe change two or three of them at the most. And when he does send a blitz, it's often a terribly designed blitz. One play against the Lions sent Dunta Robinson from the inside on a corner blitz. This was his second game back from his injury. By the time Dunta was even at the line of scrimmage, Dan Orlovsky had thrown the ball. Mario Williams is a great start to a pass rush, and maybe the personnel in place isn't optimal for blitzing, but if the Texans defense is so bad, shouldn't they be trying to force more big plays? Don't they need those turnovers? I just don't see how any rational person could keep doing what he's doing.

I'd expect this team to get in a few shootouts, but at this point I think a realistic record to end the season is 6-10 or 7-9.
Well, he was wrong, we ended up 8-8!

That home game against the Colts was ironic!
We started the game playing agressively, giving them a lot of different looks.
Every play, we would line up differently.
So they scored 10 points.

Then we started playing back more, "vanila" looking, if you will, and we kept them scoreless.

In the 4th, we faked a few times, but didn't blitz, yet we had Manning on the ground twice, and chased him out of bound once. Only a miscommunication between Wilson, Demeco, and Harrison on 4th and 7 allowed them to score. If I was Brandon, I would grab the TE and take the Inteference call.

That last TD, well, it was on an all out blitz. You want it, you got it!
And Manning simply quick-lobbed the ball to Wayne in the corner over Reeves!
Why is it when you want them to commit pass inteference, they just wouldn't?
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Old 07-02-2009   #11
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Default Re: CB Stats from around the league

The thing is, he was reviewing the first half of the season, plus the Vikings game (in which the whole O-line was sub par.)

And he never mentioned that Myers had to go one on one more than Brisiel against big bodies like Hampton, Haynesworth, Henderson, and Kennedy!

And later on Ngata, Rogers, Haynesworth, and Henderson again.
Not to mention the Packers and the Raiders' guys aren't too small either.

Yet Myers improved quite a bit in the second half.
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Old 07-02-2009   #12
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Default Re: CB Stats from around the league

I may be wrong but I thought AJ caught his TD on Finnegan in our last meeting with the tontos.
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Old 07-02-2009   #13
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Default Re: CB Stats from around the league

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I may be wrong but I thought AJ caught his TD on Finnegan in our last meeting with the tontos.
Think it was on a safety.
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Old 07-02-2009   #14
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I may be wrong but I thought AJ caught his TD on Finnegan in our last meeting with the tontos.
LCB Harper #20
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Old 07-02-2009   #15
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Default Re: CB Stats from around the league

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post

And he never mentioned that Myers had to go one on one more than Brisiel against big bodies like Hampton, Haynesworth, Henderson, and Kennedy!
Uh, because it's not worth mentioning. Every team has a big fat fatty lined up in the middle on D.

Chris Myers is 300 pounds like I'm 300 pounds: not.
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Old 07-02-2009   #16
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Default Re: CB Stats from around the league

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Originally Posted by jppaul View Post
I didn't know if this has been posted here before apologize if it has.

I was having trouble finding stats on CBs, which aren't really documented as extensively as they should be, and I found this:

http://atlantafalconstalk.com/atlant...tats-included/

Anyway here are the stats for CBs in our division that he ranked (only the top 50 in his opinion were ranked):

12. Kelvin Hayden, Indianapolis Colts
Season Totals: 42 attempts, 6.21 YPA, 45.24 Forced INC%, 1 TD, 3 INTs

16. Nick Harper, Tennessee Titans
Season Totals: 85 attempts, 5.81 YPA, 38.82 Forced INC%, 2 TDs, 2 INTs

22. Cortland Finnegan, Tennessee Titans
Season Totals: 79 attempts, 7.66 YPA, 44.30 Forced INC%, 0 TDs, 5 INTs

38. Rashean Mathis, Jacksonville Jaguars
Season Totals: 59 attempts, 7.41 YPA, 40.68 Forced INC%, 4 TDs, 4 INTs

47. Fred Bennett, Houston Texans
Season Totals: 58 attempts, 7.88 YPA, 31.03 Forced INC%, 3 TDs, 2 INTs

48. Jacques Reeves, Houston Texans
Season Totals: 96 attempts, 7.93 YPA, 32.29 Forced INC%, 2 TDs, 4 INTs
Great post. I do believe there needs to be more stats on CBs, as the official stats don't come close to telling the whole story.

This guys work seems to be a good start.
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Old 07-02-2009   #17
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Default Re: CB Stats from around the league

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Note: Its from around Thanksgiving

Chris McCown
Houston Texans

This guy sounds more like a fan. He's too close to be objective, and is letting some personal bias affect his objectivity.
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Old 07-02-2009   #18
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Default Re: CB Stats from around the league

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This guy sounds more like a fan. He's too close to be objective, and is letting some personal bias affect his objectivity.
The article reads like the Texans were headed for 0-16. This is certainly less than impressive analysis. For instance, he is correct on some of the blindingly obvious negatives ("Smith almost never blitzes...."), yet saying Bulman doesn't rush the passer extremely well is way off base. Bulman is a part-time DT who collected 4 sacks, which would be respectable for a full-time DT.

The offense has been too bland, but the QBs had big numbers, but only because of the receiving corps? He managed to contradict himself and point out the blindingly obvious (since when are QBs big numbers not a product of the receiving corps?). And how long has it been since Mark Bruener has had a significant part of the offense?

Hope he keeps his day job.
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Old 07-03-2009   #19
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Default Re: CB Stats from around the league

I disagree I think he hit a lot of points that I often see the national media whiffing on, granted they couldn't pin a donkey on Rosie O'Donnell water buffalo size ass.

It was pretty solid IMO. Winston did have a down year in comparison to last year, Myers got blown into the backfield, etc. Often I will see crap that is completely inaccurate, but he was right on.
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