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Old 05-01-2009   #1
nunusguy
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Default Michael Lombardi (CBSSports/NFLNET) wonders if Texans' Draft gets people fired ?

HOUSTON: If I had to pick one draft that I was not excited about, this would be the one. But I might be too hard on my evaluation of Brian Cushing and Connor Barwin. I just don't see how these two players can help a slow, non-pass-rushing defense get better. Time will tell, but this is the kind of draft that the Texans' front office better have right or it might not improve their team in '09 -- and it might cost some people some jobs. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11683747
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I liked the Draft (I'd give it 'bout a B), but this guy didn't and asks if the decisions made could get Kubiak & Co canned by McNair.
"Thegame" link provided herein has a podcast of Lombardi's statements on 1560 this morning which elaborates the theme - basically says that Cushing is off the field on 3rd downs and Barwin, while athletic, may not be "disruptive".
He says the Texans have a tremendous offense, but still may lack that all-important pass-rusher to help Mario and their D.
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Old 05-01-2009   #2
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Default Re: Michael Lombardi (CBSSports/NFLNET) wonders if Texans' Draft gets people fired ?

All of the CBSsports writers are terrible. Do not pay attention to anything they write.
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Old 05-01-2009   #3
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Default Re: Michael Lombardi (CBSSports/NFLNET) wonders if Texans' Draft gets people fired ?

He would pick ours as not exciting? Did he even see the Steelers draft?

Oh wait, I just looked at his analysis of the Steelers draft and he wrote this. "PITTSBURGH: Mike Tomlin is my favorite coach, for sure. We had him on the Network, and he had me pumped up to play. What was more impressive than his motivational talks were his understanding of player development and what his coaching staff must do to make these players help the Steelers. No matter who the Steelers picked, they had a great draft because Tomlin will demand it from the players."

What a bias dufus.

Last edited by Blake; 05-01-2009 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 05-01-2009   #4
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Default Re: Michael Lombardi (CBSSports/NFLNET) wonders if Texans' Draft gets people fired ?

Lombardi is a former Raider personnel guy. Read with extreme skepticism.
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Old 05-01-2009   #5
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Default Re: Michael Lombardi (CBSSports/NFLNET) wonders if Texans' Draft gets people fired ?

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Originally Posted by m5kwatts View Post
Lombardi is a former Raider personnel guy. Read with extreme skepticism.


Damn fine point.
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Old 05-01-2009   #6
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Default Re: Michael Lombardi (CBSSports/NFLNET) wonders if Texans' Draft gets people fired ?

Mike Mayock pimped our draft on the same network, and I trust Mayock ten times more than this blowhard. If he is so great, why was he canned as a GM multiple times and now has to bloviate on the NFL Network?
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Old 05-01-2009   #7
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Default Re: Michael Lombardi (CBSSports/NFLNET) wonders if Texans' Draft gets people fired ?

As I read grades and evaluations, the difference between those who gave high grades versus lower ones is how much the writer liked Cushing (in particualr) and Barwin.

BTW, gotta love the ad hominem fallacy going in this thread.
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Old 05-01-2009   #8
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Default Re: Michael Lombardi (CBSSports/NFLNET) wonders if Texans' Draft gets people fired ?

So when does Michael Lombardi join the ranks of the unemployed? How do many of these folks get the job? Everything I have read on the draft has been positive with the exception of CBS.
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Old 05-01-2009   #9
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Default Re: Michael Lombardi (CBSSports/NFLNET) wonders if Texans' Draft gets people fired ?

"I just don't see how these two players can help a slow, non-pass-rushing defense get better."

Uhhh.....what??? This guy can't see how a fast high motor LB and a freak blitzing DE/LB can help the defense??!!

Come on now....what?

Does he realize that the Texans picked DE Antonio Smith as well? This type of stuff does not compute.
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Old 05-01-2009   #10
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Default Re: Michael Lombardi (CBSSports/NFLNET) wonders if Texans' Draft gets people fired ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan View Post
As I read grades and evaluations, the difference between those who gave high grades versus lower ones is how much the writer liked Cushing (in particualr) and Barwin.

BTW, gotta love the ad hominem fallacy going in this thread.

Proper responses to such a wishy washy draft opinion expressed by the writer.

"I just don't see how these two players can help a slow, non-pass-rushing defense get better. Time will tell, but this is the kind of draft that the Texans' front office better have right or it might not improve their team in '09 -- and it might cost some people some jobs."

ad hominem - attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made.

The guy really didn't make any contentions, only gave his opinion, which doesn't seem to carry much weight with the threads' responders.

Maybe the way his opinion was discounted could be viewed as an attack on his character, but I didn't see it that way.

Where is the fallacy?


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Old 05-01-2009   #11
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Default Re: Michael Lombardi (CBSSports/NFLNET) wonders if Texans' Draft gets people fired ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan View Post
As I read grades and evaluations, the difference between those who gave high grades versus lower ones is how much the writer liked Cushing (in particualr) and Barwin.

BTW, gotta love the ad hominem fallacy going in this thread.
Sheesh. I had to look those two words up, just to understand you. Come on Arlington, bring it down from the top shelf where we can reach it. j/k

From wikipedia (for those of you in Rio Linda):

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.

The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.


A fallacy is an argument that is not logically sound. The truth of the conclusions of an argument does not determine whether the argument is a fallacy - it is the argument which is fallacious.

Fallacies can be categorized in a number of ways, including:

Formal (or Logical) fallacies versus Informal fallacies
A formal fallacy relies on an incorrect logical step. An informal fallacy does not rely on incorrect logical deduction.
Verbal fallacies
Verbal fallacies use some property of language to mislead. For example, ambiguity or verbosity.
Fallacies are also often concerned with causality, which is not strictly addressed by logic. They may also involve implicit (or unstated) assumptions.

Fallacies often exploit emotional triggers in the listener or interlocutor. For example, an argument may appeal to patriotism or family or may exploit an intellectual weakness of the listener. Fallacious arguments may also take advantage of social relationships between people. For example, citing support of important individuals to encourage listeners to agree with a conclusion.

Considered by themselves, fallacies can often seem obvious. However, arguments are often structured using rhetorical patterns that obscure the logical argument - deliberately or not - making observing fallacies difficult. Also, the component parts of the fallacy may be spread over a large period of time
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Old 05-01-2009   #12
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Default Re: Michael Lombardi (CBSSports/NFLNET) wonders if Texans' Draft gets people fired ?

I would trust Lomardi over Casserly even Mayock, the reason why - all are equally passionate about the draft, but he seems to learn from his mistakes. Mayock tends to fall in love w/players too much. Casserly is past prime time & lives too much in the past.

Lomardi also mentioned he needs to do more work, as we all do so obviously the jury is going to out for at least a couple years. I will say this I feel better today about Cushing/Barwin than I did when the picks where made, all I could post without complete meltdown was a 1st day grade off the top of my steaming head a B-. If I could change that without even playing a down I would move it up to a solid B. If Cushing is great & Bawin makes some plays it could easily move up to a B+. Of course if both are off the chain, which we all hope its automatic A+. bottom line they addressed the defense just like everyone expected with a not so expected developmental high ceiling prospet (Barwin) & a true 1st rd. talent (Cushing).
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Old 05-01-2009   #13
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Default Re: Michael Lombardi (CBSSports/NFLNET) wonders if Texans' Draft gets people fired ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuppacoffee View Post
Proper responses to such a wishy washy draft opinion expressed by the writer.

"I just don't see how these two players can help a slow, non-pass-rushing defense get better. Time will tell, but this is the kind of draft that the Texans' front office better have right or it might not improve their team in '09 -- and it might cost some people some jobs."

ad hominem - attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made.

The guy really didn't make any contentions, only gave his opinion, which doesn't seem to carry much weight with the threads' responders.

Maybe the way his opinion was discounted could be viewed as an attack on his character, but I didn't see it that way.

Where is the fallacy?


Let me guess you did not sit through the entire thrity minute segemnt where explains why he held the opinion, but also compliments other selections of the Texans.

yes, you got what i considered the fallacy.
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Old 05-01-2009   #14
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Default Re: Michael Lombardi (CBSSports/NFLNET) wonders if Texans' Draft gets people fired ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GP View Post
Sheesh. I had to look those two words up, just to understand you. Come on Arlington, bring it down from the top shelf where we can reach it. j/k

From wikipedia (for those of you in Rio Linda):

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.

The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.


A fallacy is an argument that is not logically sound. The truth of the conclusions of an argument does not determine whether the argument is a fallacy - it is the argument which is fallacious.

Fallacies can be categorized in a number of ways, including:

Formal (or Logical) fallacies versus Informal fallacies
A formal fallacy relies on an incorrect logical step. An informal fallacy does not rely on incorrect logical deduction.
Verbal fallacies
Verbal fallacies use some property of language to mislead. For example, ambiguity or verbosity.
Fallacies are also often concerned with causality, which is not strictly addressed by logic. They may also involve implicit (or unstated) assumptions.

Fallacies often exploit emotional triggers in the listener or interlocutor. For example, an argument may appeal to patriotism or family or may exploit an intellectual weakness of the listener. Fallacious arguments may also take advantage of social relationships between people. For example, citing support of important individuals to encourage listeners to agree with a conclusion.

Considered by themselves, fallacies can often seem obvious. However, arguments are often structured using rhetorical patterns that obscure the logical argument - deliberately or not - making observing fallacies difficult. Also, the component parts of the fallacy may be spread over a large period of time

I usually keep my work and on the board lives separate.
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Old 05-01-2009   #15
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Default Re: Michael Lombardi (CBSSports/NFLNET) wonders if Texans' Draft gets people fired ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan View Post
Let me guess you did not sit through the entire thrity minute segemnt where explains why he held the opinion, but also compliments other selections of the Texans.

yes, you got what i considered the fallacy.
The draft consists of 7 rounds. The post said "if there is one DRAFT I am not excited about..." but then he goes on to say he liked some of the picks. Have I got that right?

The other thing is he doesn't get how a couple of highly athletic fast guys with backgrounds of rushing the passer will help us get faster, more athletic and help with the pass rush.

Have a got that summed up? If there is an ad hominen fallacy going on here, it's being perpertrated by Lombardi.
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Old 05-01-2009   #16
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Default Re: Michael Lombardi (CBSSports/NFLNET) wonders if Texans' Draft gets people fired ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
HOUSTON: If I had to pick one draft that I was not excited about, this would be the one. But I might be too hard on my evaluation of Brian Cushing and Connor Barwin. I just don't see how these two players can help a slow, non-pass-rushing defense get better. Time will tell, but this is the kind of draft that the Texans' front office better have right or it might not improve their team in '09 -- and it might cost some people some jobs. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11683747
I think, instead of bashing this guy, we should back up, and look at his statements objectively.

First of all, he says that he may be too harsh on his evaluation of Cush & Barwin. So right there, he's kind of apologizing before he even starts. He may think Cushing is overrated, he may think Connor Barwin doesn't fit in a 4-3 system.

Does that make sense?

This year, I've heard the talk, that a team has to be careful when drafting USC athletes, because they may have been able to hide their weaknesses with all the talent on that team. Prior to the draft, most people believed their three starting LBs would go before the 20th pick of the first round.
So he may have a point.

Now Barwin was projected as an OLB at the NFL level. Not many expected him to come to the NFL and play DE. If he were looked at as a DE, I doubt he would have been predicted to go as high as we picked him. So, I think he may have another point.

& looking at Cushings combine numbers, he isn't uncannily fast or quick. & Barwin played at Cincinnatti.... against who?

I am not saying dude is right, only that he makes valid points. Both Cushing & Barwin are gambles IMHO. I don't know if there were any better choices, but I don't believe either pick are sure things.

I don't trust Smithiak........ but I admit they hit more times than not in the draft, from top to bottom, so I believe the chances for these two to become stars are better than good.

Now I think he is way off base thinking these are make or break picks for Smithiak. I think we left a couple of wins on the field last year, and the year before, due to coaching flaws. Whether these two are who we thought they were or not, we will have a winning season, and Smithiak will manage our '10 draft. If they struck gold with these two, and it's very possible, we'll probably win our division, and Smithiak won't be able to start working on the draft as early as they may have become accustomed to.
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Old 05-01-2009   #17
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Default Re: Michael Lombardi (CBSSports/NFLNET) wonders if Texans' Draft gets people fired ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porky View Post
If there is an ad hominen fallacy going on here, it's being perpertrated by Lombardi.
Agreed.
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Old 05-01-2009   #18
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Default Re: Michael Lombardi (CBSSports/NFLNET) wonders if Texans' Draft gets people fired ?

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Originally Posted by Texaninlild View Post
So when does Michael Lombardi join the ranks of the unemployed? How do many of these folks get the job? Everything I have read on the draft has been positive with the exception of CBS.
Actually, the CBS Sports guys have been positive this year. I think Lombardi is alone in this.

Judge:
Quote:
It's almost impossible to ace the NFL Draft, but each year someone comes close -- and this year that someone was the Houston Texans. Nearly everywhere they looked they found value with their choices, with pass rusher Connor Barwin in the second round and multi-purpose tight James Casey in the fifth two examples.
Prisco:
Quote:

Best pick: I really like third-round pick Antoine Caldwell, a center from Alabama. He will be their starter in a year.
Questionable move: Not getting a secondary player early in the draft. That was a definite need.

Second-day gem: Tight end James Casey, taken in the fifth round, is a good pass-catching tight end who can complement Owen Daniels.

Grade: B
I liked Brian Cushing in the first round and they added a lot of nice picks after that.
Rob Rang:
Quote:
Houston Texas: B-
The Texans focused on pass rushers, safeties and tight ends in the 2009 draft, devoting multiple selections to each over the weekend. Versatility was also key, as the Texans selected two of the more adaptable athletes of the draft in Connor Barwin and James Casey. Outside linebacker Brian Cushing should make the most immediate impact, though the athletic Barwin could take advantage of the blocking devoted to Houston's front four. New Mexico cornerback Glover Quinn could make the transition to free safety for the Texans. Considering the presence of Owen Daniels, it was a surprise to see the Texans take Casey, as well as Anthony Hill. With much of their pre-draft focus on adding a bigger running back to complement Steve Slaton, the lack of any help at this position could come back to haunt the Texans should the diminutive back struggle through a sophomore slump.

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Old 05-01-2009   #19
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Default Re: Michael Lombardi (CBSSports/NFLNET) wonders if Texans' Draft gets people fired ?

Who is this guy anyway? Never heard of him. Want to know something funny, I copied and pasted his name into the search window and searched cbssports.com for his info/bio/pic so I could get a picture of my next favorite asshat writer and this is what I found:

Quote:
Your search - Michael Lombardi - did not match any documents.
No pages were found containing "Michael Lombardi".
Suggestions:

- Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
- Try different keywords.
- Try more general keywords.
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Old 05-01-2009   #20
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Default Re: Michael Lombardi (CBSSports/NFLNET) wonders if Texans' Draft gets people fired ?

Had to google him to figure out who he was.......that's who I was thinking, he's already an asshat, glad he picked our draft to suck that means we are destined for greatness.....
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