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Old 04-27-2009   #1
Hooston Texan
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Default Your objections to the 2009 draft: speak now or hold your peace

I started a thread right after the 2008 draft for everyone to "go on the record" with their opinions of the draft. The intent was to let all the would-be I-told-you-so's put down their opinions before they had the benefit of hindsight. Also, this will be a good place to put down the names of the guys we were hoping to get (Jennings, Brown, Unger, etc.).

In a year or two, we could then unearth this thread and see who was smart and who was not. Last week, we got a good laugh at the folks (me included) who questioned the Slaton pick, but those who went on the record supporting the Slaton pick get well-deserved applause.

So here's the rules:
1. This isn't intended to be a discussion/debate thread at this phase. Plenty of those going around. Just post your disagreement with a pick (or picks) and why. When this time capsule gets dug up in the next year or two, we can praise/laugh at the picks all we want.

2. If you disagree with a pick, you must state who you would have drafted with that pick. And the proposed pick must have been available.

3. No "they should have traded down/up" comments. We don't know if any trades were available, so assume that we were stuck with the picks.

4. If you don't post here, then we can presume you don't question any of the picks. OK, that's not really a fair rule, but you can't be an I-told-us-so unless you did indeed tell us so. If you were right, the proof will be right here for everyone to see.

So, with those ground rules in place, here's the transactions up for consideration:

Trading Rosenfels for a fourth round pick. If you disagree with this pick, then you are voiding the Texans pick of Anthony Hill (unless you believe we should have drafted him earlier than 122.

Brian Cushing at 15.

Connor Barwin at 46.

Antoine Caldwell at 77

Grover Quin at 112.

Anthony Hill at 122.

James Casey at 152.

Brice McCain at 188.

Troy Nolan at 223.

Fire away, brave souls.
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Old 04-27-2009   #2
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Default Re: Your objections to the 2009 draft: speak now or hold your peace

Connor Barwin better be the love child of Mike Vrabel & KVB. Because that 2nd round pick, to me, is a little risky. I would have preferred a DB in that spot, but a lot of people think DBs in the higher rounds are overrated unless they are the best of the DB position in the draft class.

If Anthony Hill in the 4th was a move to improve red zone, goal line, and short yardage RUNNING situations...and he's used in that manner...and it works...then I like the pick. If it turns out that James Casey was the better TE pick, well...we wasted a 4th rounder and we'll need to look at who else was available after we drafted Anthony Hill.

Not taking Andre Brown, or even a single RB at all, was a bit surprising. A lot of teams let RBs slide almost completely off the edge of the draft board. I wonder if the trend is going to become the practice of making a good portion of RBs go undrafted and then sign them as UDFAs, thereby using your draft picks on other positions. Maybe coaches feel there wasn't enough good RBs in this draft, so sign 'em cheaper as UDFAs.

It's obvious that we're building our defense from the line, first, then the LBs, and the DBs are the last to get the star treatment. Hopefully we use next year's first round to target a stud DB at any DB position, take your pick.

I am so-so on Cushing. I wonder if he's really "all that," or if he's just a workout warrior who will get lost in the deep waters of the NFL. I will hold back on my assessment until I see him in action. If he's a star, he'll show it very quickly, IMO. If he's not, then oops-we-crapped-our-pants in the first round, Okoye style. Again.

Love the Caldwell pick.

The rest of the picks? Meh. I'm indifferent to them.
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Old 04-27-2009   #3
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Default Re: Your objections to the 2009 draft: speak now or hold your peace

I'm indifferent with just about every pick besides Cushing and Caldwell. It's not that I completely hate the picks, it's just a "we'll have to wait and see" kind of ordeal.
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Old 04-27-2009   #4
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Default Re: Your objections to the 2009 draft: speak now or hold your peace

It's all speculation until we see what they can do on the field. "Hold your peace" is kind of silly when we have no idea if these players can compete at the pro level just two days after the draft. And I seriously doubt anyone on a message board could even "hold their peace" to begin with.
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Old 04-27-2009   #5
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Default Re: Your objections to the 2009 draft: speak now or hold your peace

I like the Cushing pick and pretty much the rest of the picks. The Texans filled their needs. Good draft.
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Old 04-27-2009   #6
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Default Re: Your objections to the 2009 draft: speak now or hold your peace

I don't like the Cushing or the Anthony Hill pick. I'm not in love with the Barwin pick, either. Antoine Caldwell, though, gives me hope. I honestly know nothing of the DBs.
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Old 04-27-2009   #7
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Default Re: Your objections to the 2009 draft: speak now or hold your peace

I dont really like the 6th or 7th rounders.

Initially I disliked both 4th's, but I have come to terms with those.

I am meh on the Cushings pick, and I love the Barwin and Casey picks.
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Old 04-27-2009   #8
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Default Re: Your objections to the 2009 draft: speak now or hold your peace

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Originally Posted by rmartin65 View Post
I dont really like the 6th or 7th rounders.

Initially I disliked both 4th's, but I have come to terms with those.

I am meh on the Cushings pick, and I love the Barwin and Casey picks.

Too much detail, just give us the broad strokes please!
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Old 04-27-2009   #9
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Default Re: Your objections to the 2009 draft: speak now or hold your peace

I hate the friggin' draft. LOL.
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Old 04-27-2009   #10
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Default Re: Your objections to the 2009 draft: speak now or hold your peace

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
It's all speculation until we see what they can do on the field. "Hold your peace" is kind of silly when we have no idea if these players can compete at the pro level just two days after the draft. And I seriously doubt anyone on a message board could even "hold their peace" to begin with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mexican_texan View Post
I don't like the Cushing or the Anthony Hill pick. I'm not in love with the Barwin pick, either. Antoine Caldwell, though, gives me hope. I honestly know nothing of the DBs.
Every single pick in every draft ever held is a question mark. We got grilled by anyone who ever HEARD of the NFL for taking MW, but ask RB or VY how that turned out. Who knew Sam Bowie had kids named Reggie and Vince? Just to show MY smarts, I was a HUGE Carr supporter and blamed much on the OL. I also didn't mind the TJ pick. Those are 2 I regret. All that being said, I REALLY like our draft. We could have our 2nd DROY with Cushing. I like his attitude and motor. I just like our draft all the way around. Yeah, we could've picked this guy or that guy, but Smithiak has earend my respect in the draft, so I'll take it and be happy with it. I bet Barwin makes a HELL of an impact, BTW. We just got young and fast on the edges. Watch out Manning.
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Old 04-27-2009   #11
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Default Re: Your objections to the 2009 draft: speak now or hold your peace

All the picks look good in theory. I'll wait until a few preseason games have been played before I start making judgements. Some of these guys we won't really know what we have for a while though.
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Old 04-27-2009   #12
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Default Re: Your objections to the 2009 draft: speak now or hold your peace

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Too much detail, just give us the broad strokes please!
I could do more detail if you want.

I do not like the second CB. From the film I have seen of him (albeit relatively little, and excluding his highlight reel) he seems to just be a speed guy. The 7th, he reminds me of Harrison. I hope I am wrong, but I dont see anything from him. And his measurables suck. He seems like a guy that wont even be on the squad in 2010.

Initially, I hated Hill. But I did a little research, and the idea of a blocking TE for certain situations sounds good. The first CB, we did need depth. So I warmed up to that pick real quick. I also like that he could possibly give depth at FS.

Cushings, I hate USC. So, on principle, I dislike him until he proves himself as a Texan. But he does seem like a good player with a good attitude.

Caldwell, one of our better picks. Depth at C and G, and I think he will start at either RG or C by week 8.

Casey I gave a low grade because of OD, Dreeson, and Hill. but I love him as a player, so I cant say I dislike the pick.

Barwin was my favorite pick. I think he could be the best pass rusher in the draft.
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Old 04-27-2009   #13
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Default Re: Your objections to the 2009 draft: speak now or hold your peace

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
All the picks look good in theory. I'll wait until a few preseason games have been played before I start making judgements. Some of these guys we won't really know what we have for a while though.
This is the way I feel. I'm hopeful that we've got some gems, but I can't really say until we see them in action.
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Old 04-27-2009   #14
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Default Re: Your objections to the 2009 draft: speak now or hold your peace

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Originally Posted by rmartin65 View Post
I could do more detail if you want.

I do not like the second CB. From the film I have seen of him (albeit relatively little, and excluding his highlight reel) he seems to just be a speed guy. The 7th, he reminds me of Harrison. I hope I am wrong, but I dont see anything from him. And his measurables suck. He seems like a guy that wont even be on the squad in 2010.

Initially, I hated Hill. But I did a little research, and the idea of a blocking TE for certain situations sounds good. The first CB, we did need depth. So I warmed up to that pick real quick. I also like that he could possibly give depth at FS.

Cushings, I hate USC. So, on principle, I dislike him until he proves himself as a Texan. But he does seem like a good player with a good attitude.

Caldwell, one of our better picks. Depth at C and G, and I think he will start at either RG or C by week 8.

Casey I gave a low grade because of OD, Dreeson, and Hill. but I love him as a player, so I cant say I dislike the pick.

Barwin was my favorite pick. I think he could be the best pass rusher in the draft.
Brice McCain was drafted to be a returner if I'm not mistaken. I have high hopes for him and Troy Nolan after reading up on them.
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Old 04-27-2009   #15
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Default Re: Your objections to the 2009 draft: speak now or hold your peace

Seems as if some people might be upset with the Casey pick because they see him as a replacement for OD.

I disagree. I think Casey will play more of a FB/H Back role and I think he will be a dynamic player in that position. I don't think the addition of Casey has any impact on OD.
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Old 04-27-2009   #16
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Default Re: Your objections to the 2009 draft: speak now or hold your peace

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Seems as if some people might be upset with the Casey pick because they see him as a replacement for OD.

I disagree. I think Casey will play more of a FB/H Back role and I think he will be a dynamic player in that position. I don't think the addition of Casey has any impact on OD.
I don't know about that Bah. I think that it just might. I mean hell we just drafted two straight TE's man, and to me it's no coincidence especially with Daniels needing to be resigned and all and the Texans seeing that big contract with Winslow. I think that it does have some effect. I'm not saying that now all of a sudden we aren't going to resign Daniels because of it, but it does make me say wonder a little bit.
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Old 04-27-2009   #17
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Default Re: Your objections to the 2009 draft: speak now or hold your peace

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I don't know about that Bah. I think that it just might. I mean hell we just drafted two straight TE's man, and to me it's no coincidence especially with Daniels needing to be resigned and all and the Texans seeing that big contract with Winslow. I think that it does have some effect. I'm not saying that now all of a sudden we aren't going to resign Daniels because of it, but it does make me say wonder a little bit.
Just because a guy played TE in college doesn't mean he will play TE in the pros. Guys switch positions all the time.

Switching from TE to a FB/H Back should be a pretty easy transition for Casey. He didn't really play TE at Rice anyway. He was basically just a WR flexed inside.
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Old 04-27-2009   #18
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Default Re: Your objections to the 2009 draft: speak now or hold your peace

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I don't know about that Bah. I think that it just might. I mean hell we just drafted two straight TE's man, and to me it's no coincidence especially with Daniels needing to be resigned and all and the Texans seeing that big contract with Winslow. I think that it does have some effect. I'm not saying that now all of a sudden we aren't going to resign Daniels because of it, but it does make me say wonder a little bit.
While I don't think that we'll just let O.D. walk either; I do agree picking up two TEs will have an impact. I think O.D.'s bargaining leverage just diminished a bit with the pick up of these two guys.
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Old 04-27-2009   #19
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Default Re: Your objections to the 2009 draft: speak now or hold your peace

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Just because a guy played TE in college doesn't mean he will play TE in the pros. Guys switch positions all the time.

Switching from TE to a FB/H Back should be a pretty easy transition for Casey. He didn't really play TE at Rice anyway. He was basically just a WR flexed inside.
I'm not saying that this means we won't be trying to resign Daniels, but it does make me wonder. Casey is listed as a TE as of now, so that is all that I have to go on. I hope we keep Daniels, but I have a hunch that possibly Kubiak just might think that he can replace Daniels with this Casey guy in the 5th round with a value pick and make him into another Daniels. Only time will tell.
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Old 04-27-2009   #20
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Default Re: Your objections to the 2009 draft: speak now or hold your peace

I'm more of a check with me in 3 yrs type of guy. I'm not into these early draft grades and such, but I have a problem, not major with the texans draft.

I know philly called for that 15th pick. The gm and coach said so once they saw macklin still there. If u just use the value chart and looking at the ammo of philly, to move down the texans couldve got no less than a 3rd and a 4th to move 6 spots. Now the 3rd had to be this yr and the 4th couldve been negotiated. Lets say they did get the 2 picks, they couldve drafted matthews,butler,or davis at 21. The rule is u have to have a player for every spot u move down. If they take matthews, that's the slb with upside like barwin or if they take davis or butler, that's leverage against robinson. To have another 3 and 4 in this draft wouldve been incredible. Everyone can't be perfect though.
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