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Old 04-17-2009   #1
awtysst
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Default USC LBs Plummeting?

So in addition to the Steroid rumor(we will find out on Monday) both Cushing and Mathhews III have been linked to an even less flattering rumor.

http://www.dailytrojan.com/news/face...water-1.206854

According to the Daily Trojan (USC campus newspaper) Matthews III started a facebook group called ""White Nation," which featured a graphic with the caption, "arrest black babies before they become criminals."

The players defended this as an inside team joke and claim that they are not racists.

While I am not black, I am a man of color and live in a world that gives certain advantages to those of Caucasian descent. I am not offended but this group, I am merely dumbfounded. I do not care for the sentiments, I care about the students' thought processes. Both Cushing and Matthews III are potentially guilty of failing steroid tests at the Combine. To me, that tells me two things: 1) is their work on the field really reflective of ability and 2) what is their potential maturity/decision making like?

This facebook group tells me that neither one of these guys is savy enough to really get it. The football draft process is a long drawn out interview process. It is important to put your best foot forward at all times. Racial Discrimination aside, this is just a dumb way to portray yourself to a potential employer. I think it is very possible both of these tumble out of the first round and well into the second. Honestly, I could see Clay dropping all the way into the third now.

Thoughts?
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Old 04-17-2009   #2
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Default Re: USC LBs Plummeting?

I think this facebook thing is something that wasn't meant to be hurtful to anyone and has been completely blown out of proportion. I highly doubt that Clay is a racist. Anyone close to their age can relate to having friends call you and you calling friends things inside that others would find offensive out of context.

That being said, I completely agree that it is pretty stupid to make something like that public knowing what the NFL draft process is like. I mean, seriously guys, its not rocket science
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Old 04-17-2009   #3
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Default Re: USC LBs Plummeting?

Unfeakinbelievable. What a dumb-shit idea, even if it was a joke.
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Old 04-17-2009   #4
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Default Re: USC LBs Plummeting?

I won't comment on the impact that article will or won't have on the players but everyone is throwing this out as a new article and the thing is two years old fwiw.
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Old 04-17-2009   #5
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Default Re: USC LBs Plummeting?

too much potential controversy for the Texans to wanna mess with.
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Old 04-17-2009   #6
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Default Re: USC LBs Plummeting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by awtysst View Post
So in addition to the Steroid rumor(we will find out on Monday) both Cushing and Mathhews III have been linked to an even less flattering rumor.

http://www.dailytrojan.com/news/face...water-1.206854

According to the Daily Trojan (USC campus newspaper) Matthews III started a facebook group called ""White Nation," which featured a graphic with the caption, "arrest black babies before they become criminals."

The players defended this as an inside team joke and claim that they are not racists.

While I am not black, I am a man of color and live in a world that gives certain advantages to those of Caucasian descent. I am not offended but this group, I am merely dumbfounded. I do not care for the sentiments, I care about the students' thought processes. Both Cushing and Matthews III are potentially guilty of failing steroid tests at the Combine. To me, that tells me two things: 1) is their work on the field really reflective of ability and 2) what is their potential maturity/decision making like?

This facebook group tells me that neither one of these guys is savy enough to really get it. The football draft process is a long drawn out interview process. It is important to put your best foot forward at all times. Racial Discrimination aside, this is just a dumb way to portray yourself to a potential employer. I think it is very possible both of these tumble out of the first round and well into the second. Honestly, I could see Clay dropping all the way into the third now.

Thoughts?
The Facebook things was an inside joke between all the teammates, even the black ones.

It was in response to Sedrick Ellis calling his white teammates (David Buehler, Brian Cushing, Dan Deckas, Clay Matthews, and Dallas Sartz) the "White Nation".

Ellis even came to their defense when students at USC got angry about the group.

It happened over a year ago. I'm sure Cushing and Matthews have already been grilled about it during interviews.

Non story.
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Old 04-17-2009   #7
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Default Re: USC LBs Plummeting?

Over two years old...

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Published: Friday, March 16, 2007
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Old 04-17-2009   #8
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Default Re: USC LBs Plummeting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by awtysst View Post
So in addition to the Steroid rumor(we will find out on Monday) both Cushing and Mathhews III have been linked to an even less flattering rumor.

http://www.dailytrojan.com/news/face...water-1.206854

According to the Daily Trojan (USC campus newspaper) Matthews III started a facebook group called ""White Nation," which featured a graphic with the caption, "arrest black babies before they become criminals."

The players defended this as an inside team joke and claim that they are not racists.

While I am not black, I am a man of color and live in a world that gives certain advantages to those of Caucasian descent. I am not offended but this group, I am merely dumbfounded. I do not care for the sentiments, I care about the students' thought processes. Both Cushing and Matthews III are potentially guilty of failing steroid tests at the Combine. To me, that tells me two things: 1) is their work on the field really reflective of ability and 2) what is their potential maturity/decision making like?

This facebook group tells me that neither one of these guys is savy enough to really get it. The football draft process is a long drawn out interview process. It is important to put your best foot forward at all times. Racial Discrimination aside, this is just a dumb way to portray yourself to a potential employer. I think it is very possible both of these tumble out of the first round and well into the second. Honestly, I could see Clay dropping all the way into the third now.

Thoughts?

I totally understand and appreciate your argument. However, I disagree. These guys are 21 years old. I don't mean that the age is an excuse for bad behavior and certainly not for profane and racist comments. However, it is clear to me and any reasonable person who read the article and knows these guys a little bit, that this thing was an attempt at humor. The public display of the inside joke is an attack on political correctness, something that most adults have learned to be very cautious to do... I certainly have. However, that simply isn't the perspective and life experience of a 21 year old man.

Clearly it was an error in judgement and one that could affect them in a very significant way. However, I just don't see that this mistake says anything at all about what kind of football player they will become. Frankly, I don't think it says anything about the kind of men they will become either, other than the fact that they enjoy a laugh that flaunts convention and that they sometimes act impetuously (not a shocker for a 21 year old). I think there are plenty of men with very high character who made inappropriate attempts at humor as young men.

As a talent evaluater, I would make sure I was confident that these young men are not racists and would not be a devisive personality in the locker room. Other than that, I would see this incident as an opportunity to get one of these guys at an even better value in the draft, assuming they fell on some teams' draft boards are were probably taken off of some others all together.
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Old 04-17-2009   #9
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Default Re: USC LBs Plummeting?

Bad post atwysst.
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Old 04-17-2009   #10
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Default Re: USC LBs Plummeting?

As mentioned previously:

(1) Sedric Ellis of African-American decent nicknamed a group of the white football players on the USC team "white nation".
(2) Sedric Ellis is good friends with these players and was a member of said facebook group.
(3) This was over 2 years ago.


If anything, teams were probably asking Sedric Ellis about this last year during interviews and what was meant by all this. Obviously it didn't hurt his draft stock too bad. This will be a non-issue.
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Old 04-17-2009   #11
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Default Re: USC LBs Plummeting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeKiller View Post
Bad post atwysst.
Why? Why is this a bad post? Because it happened a couple of years ago? Because you feel its a non issue? Why? If you are going to claim its a bad post, you should point out the reasoning for it. See what others did when they responded? They addressed my argument and pointed out areas where they disagreed. Thats what you should strive to do as well.

I happen to think this type of thinking helps potentially to paint the picture that these guys are bad decision makers. Clealry, this was a stupid thing to do. When you live in 2009 it is pretty dumb to associate yourself with these things. If you want to have a private joke amongst friends, thats one thing, to publicly post this is another. It hints at immaturity in my mind.

It also allows us to give a potential data point that they were immature a couple of years ago. The combine was this year. If they tests positive that is a second data point that leads towards the conclusion that he is immature. 2 data points raises eyebrows and three is a trend.

This was a good post because it stated an opinion, demonstrated my thinking, and elaborated on my original point.

Now, go ahead and tell me why this was not a good post.
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Old 04-17-2009   #12
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Default Re: USC LBs Plummeting?

Man you are one serious dude.

His African-American teammates didn't have a problem with the facebook.

Nuff said
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Old 04-17-2009   #13
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Default Re: USC LBs Plummeting?

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Originally Posted by rmartin65 View Post
Unfeakinbelievable. What a dumb-shit idea, even if it was a joke.
I agree just plain dumb. It shouldn't keep any team from looking to draft him because it was a joke, but what a stupid idea.
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Old 04-17-2009   #14
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Default Re: USC LBs Plummeting?

Despite his 27 Wonderlic, I'm more concerned about how many English classes Matthews skipped...........As the head of such a prestigious group as "White Nation," you would at least expect the correct spelling of ARYAN.

http://www.dailytrojan.com/news/face...water-1.206854

Quote:
"This group is not for the faint of heart," read the group's description. "All members are athletes of Caucasion (sic) descent. DISCLAIMER: In no way are the following memebers (sic) intolerant of others, we are just doing our duty of protecting the Arian (sic) brotherhood."
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Old 04-17-2009   #15
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Default Re: USC LBs Plummeting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by awtysst View Post
Why? Why is this a bad post? Because it happened a couple of years ago? Because you feel its a non issue? Why? If you are going to claim its a bad post, you should point out the reasoning for it. See what others did when they responded? They addressed my argument and pointed out areas where they disagreed. Thats what you should strive to do as well.

I happen to think this type of thinking helps potentially to paint the picture that these guys are bad decision makers. Clealry, this was a stupid thing to do. When you live in 2009 it is pretty dumb to associate yourself with these things. If you want to have a private joke amongst friends, thats one thing, to publicly post this is another. It hints at immaturity in my mind.

It also allows us to give a potential data point that they were immature a couple of years ago. The combine was this year. If they tests positive that is a second data point that leads towards the conclusion that he is immature. 2 data points raises eyebrows and three is a trend.

This was a good post because it stated an opinion, demonstrated my thinking, and elaborated on my original point.

Now, go ahead and tell me why this was not a good post.
You're well liked and respected...

... Did a bug fly up your ass today? Relax, mate. Others pretty much said it all. No need to repeat what's been said but this is old news and that makes it a bad post in it's own light. All is good, atwysst!
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Old 04-17-2009   #16
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Default Re: USC LBs Plummeting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
The Facebook things was an inside joke between all the teammates, even the black ones.

It was in response to Sedrick Ellis calling his white teammates (David Buehler, Brian Cushing, Dan Deckas, Clay Matthews, and Dallas Sartz) the "White Nation".

Ellis even came to their defense when students at USC got angry about the group.

It happened over a year ago. I'm sure Cushing and Matthews have already been grilled about it during interviews.

Non story.
What he said. It's a TOTAL non-story.
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Old 04-17-2009   #17
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Default Re: USC LBs Plummeting?

I bet there are many teams that hope these guys fall to them. In the NFL, if you can play, you can play.
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Old 04-17-2009   #18
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Default Re: USC LBs Plummeting?

I disagree that this is a non-story. As I posted above, I wouldn't let the story affect my draft board. However, the story is now being picked up by national and local media (see John McClain's blog). So, it could have an impact on how some teams rate these guys. I think it's an unrealistic assumption that all the teams have already dealt with this matter during the combine interviews, etc... I'm sure this will be new news to a number of teams. Not only that, other teams may be impacted by public reaction as it begins to spill out.
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Old 04-17-2009   #19
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Default Re: USC LBs Plummeting?

I think this is the kind of joke only people of our generation could understand. My high school team had a group like that; it's not a racist thing.


Edit: after reading the thread, maybe not. I guess not everyone's been in a school with that kind of racial makeup. My high school was mostly black, the football team even more so, like I'm guessing USC's football team to be.
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Old 04-17-2009   #20
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Default Re: USC LBs Plummeting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
I disagree that this is a non-story. As I posted above, I wouldn't let the story affect my draft board. However, the story is now being picked up by national and local media (see John McClain's blog). So, it could have an impact on how some teams rate these guys. I think it's an unrealistic assumption that all the teams have already dealt with this matter during the combine interviews, etc... I'm sure this will be new news to a number of teams. Not only that, other teams may be impacted by public reaction as it begins to spill out.
It happened two years ago. If the NFL guys interviewing the prospects didn't know about by the time the combine came around, then they probably aren't very good at their jobs.

Personally, I think it's safe to say that Cushing and Matthews were asked about it this year AND Ellis was asked about it last year.
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