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Old 04-14-2009   #61
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

Pencil Neck, that pretty true, but things are constantly in motion. The will is normally the run and hit guy. Brooks is a classic example of a guy that's covered up by the de and is allowed to just flow. The slb is the guy that sets the edge on the strongside where the te is like you said, but what has happened is the Y-flex te (witten,gates,winslow, clark, heap, daniels) are now opening up and putting those guys in spce. So dc's are now putting smaller used to be wlb on the te side because those guys are normally faster lb's. Its really like a game a chicken when trying to matchup. DC's are now playing more coverage people both at lb and at safety because of those te's and the westbrook type of back. That's why a guy like roy williams is pretty much a dinosaur. He's a in the box guy that can't cover nor can he play deep middle and cover. That's why the best safeties are guys with corner skills.

As far as the ex de playing slb, its basically what 3-4 teams do. Its a 5 man pressure and the 5th is the slb. Now believe or not, smith blitzed more than it seemed, but blitzing with guys that run into lineman vs blitzing with a guy that know how to beat a lineman is different. Bush had experience under fisher and 46 principle and under jimmy johnson who has gocong right now. Spag under johnson had mathias. That's why if jenkins is gone, I think the texans should draft the best 3-4 type of olb. This will give the the ability to pressure with 5 man on any down as well as morphe into a 3-4 if the choose. I could easily see adibi and june as the wlb and slb. They both are so similar, it doesn't matter who plays which spot. Diles is the guy that might have problems.
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Old 04-14-2009   #62
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
As far as the ex de playing slb, its basically what 3-4 teams do. Its a 5 man pressure and the 5th is the slb.
I was talking about DE's transitioning to the Sam in a 4-3. I wasn't talking about 3-4's because... well... that's not our D. I know that DE's frequently turn into rush OLB's in a 3-4 but I wasn't generalizing to the point of talking about all defenses.

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Now believe or not, smith blitzed more than it seemed, but blitzing with guys that run into lineman vs blitzing with a guy that know how to beat a lineman is different. Bush had experience under fisher and 46 principle and under jimmy johnson who has gocong right now. Spag under johnson had mathias. That's why if jenkins is gone, I think the texans should draft the best 3-4 type of olb. This will give the the ability to pressure with 5 man on any down as well as morphe into a 3-4 if the choose. I could easily see adibi and june as the wlb and slb. They both are so similar, it doesn't matter who plays which spot. Diles is the guy that might have problems.
One of my pet peeves is people saying we didn't blitz. We did blitz. We just sucked at it most of the time. Like you said, running into a mosh pit and getting caught in the wash isn't very effective and that's what most of our blitzers did.

So... you're hoping that we're going to morph from a defense that was primarily 4-3 (with a lot of zone blitzing and occasionally a "functional" 3-4 where one of the down lineman drops into coverage without bringing the blitzer) to a hybrid 3-4 with 5 guys on the line rushing?
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Old 04-14-2009   #63
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Pencil Neck, that pretty true, but things are constantly in motion. The will is normally the run and hit guy. Brooks is a classic example of a guy that's covered up by the de and is allowed to just flow. The slb is the guy that sets the edge on the strongside where the te is like you said, but what has happened is the Y-flex te (witten,gates,winslow, clark, heap, daniels) are now opening up and putting those guys in spce. So dc's are now putting smaller used to be wlb on the te side because those guys are normally faster lb's. Its really like a game a chicken when trying to matchup. DC's are now playing more coverage people both at lb and at safety because of those te's and the westbrook type of back. That's why a guy like roy williams is pretty much a dinosaur. He's a in the box guy that can't cover nor can he play deep middle and cover. That's why the best safeties are guys with corner skills.

As far as the ex de playing slb, its basically what 3-4 teams do. Its a 5 man pressure and the 5th is the slb. Now believe or not, smith blitzed more than it seemed, but blitzing with guys that run into lineman vs blitzing with a guy that know how to beat a lineman is different. Bush had experience under fisher and 46 principle and under jimmy johnson who has gocong right now. Spag under johnson had mathias. That's why if jenkins is gone, I think the texans should draft the best 3-4 type of olb. This will give the the ability to pressure with 5 man on any down as well as morphe into a 3-4 if the choose. I could easily see adibi and june as the wlb and slb. They both are so similar, it doesn't matter who plays which spot. Diles is the guy that might have problems.

With all the talk about Matthews and Cushing, I think Clint Sintim is being overlooked. One of my favorite draft scenarios has us trading down into the bottom of round one and taking Sintim. I think he would be a very good fit for a SLB that can pressure the QB.
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Old 04-14-2009   #64
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
I was talking about DE's transitioning to the Sam in a 4-3. I wasn't talking about 3-4's because... well... that's not our D. I know that DE's frequently turn into rush OLB's in a 3-4 but I wasn't generalizing to the point of talking about all defenses.



One of my pet peeves is people saying we didn't blitz. We did blitz. We just sucked at it most of the time. Like you said, running into a mosh pit and getting caught in the wash isn't very effective and that's what most of our blitzers did.

So... you're hoping that we're going to morph from a defense that was primarily 4-3 (with a lot of zone blitzing and occasionally a "functional" 3-4 where one of the down lineman drops into coverage without bringing the blitzer) to a hybrid 3-4 with 5 guys on the line rushing?
This is the Jim Johnson template, at least as of late. Personally, I also think this is the model we should be moving to. You have a normal 4-3 front and a SLB that's closer to a 3-4 OLB. This leads to a better defense against the run in the edges because the SLB is bigger and is lining up at the LOS 90% of the time. The SLB doesn't have to rush but he will rush more than normal. The drawback is that it forces the SS into the box since the SLB is more of a liability in coverage than normal. However this can be coutered by running nickel packages slightly more often since in the nickel the SLB is replaced by a CB anyways. Another note is that in nickel the SLB can become a DE making the SLB a 3 down LB of sorts which is unusual for a 4-3 SLB.

If we grab Mathews, Sintim, or Barwin, it would signal we're going to be playing something like this as they are pass rushing SLBs. Cushing is more balanced so he could work in any scheme. The other thing to keep your eye on for this scheme is SS. For this to work you need a SS that's a reliable tackler but can cover like a CB instead of a center fielder. The SS will be going 1 on 1 vs the TE or slot WR on the base formation after all.
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Old 04-15-2009   #65
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

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Originally Posted by RipTraxx View Post
I remember a interview with Rick Smith when asked about his reasoning behing drafting Okoye. He said when u have 4 down lineman that can rush the passer w/o blitzing its invaluable...all due respect to Smith, while the theory is sound there is something i feel hes missing. I believe when you are able to have guys like Okoye or Mario ONE ON ONE with a O lineman..thats when u start to reap the benefits.

That being said, any given play u have 5 lineman blocking, 6 if the TE stays in. What needs to happen then is that we have to put 5 defenders against 5 lineman, meaning there has to be at LEAST one person blitzing almost every play. Seeming as TE serve as a check down/dump off for most Qbs even if they keep him in to block thats just one less outlet he has, thus putting more stress on his progression.

Long story short, if Bush sticks to his guns, saying our D is going to be more agressive (remember Richard Smith said the same thing when he got the job) then i believe our sack numbers will go through the roof. Have our interior guys shooting gaps AND have one LB blitzing, we will have a completely different team.

Im not one for long posts...just my honest opinion.
So who in your mind got there or will get there as the fifth man ? Inquiring minds wish to know ? Let me know how the majic dust works in october .
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Old 04-15-2009   #66
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
With all the talk about Matthews and Cushing, I think Clint Sintim is being overlooked. One of my favorite draft scenarios has us trading down into the bottom of round one and taking Sintim. I think he would be a very good fit for a SLB that can pressure the QB.
Clint Situm can not, will not....ever stand up in a 4-3. No one has forgotten him. He doesn't work. Now you draft the guy as a situational rusher....so be it. but that guy and his hips ain't standing up in a 4-3. Never ...ever.
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Old 04-16-2009   #67
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
I was talking about DE's transitioning to the Sam in a 4-3. I wasn't talking about 3-4's because... well... that's not our D. I know that DE's frequently turn into rush OLB's in a 3-4 but I wasn't generalizing to the point of talking about all defenses.



One of my pet peeves is people saying we didn't blitz. We did blitz. We just sucked at it most of the time. Like you said, running into a mosh pit and getting caught in the wash isn't very effective and that's what most of our blitzers did.

So... you're hoping that we're going to morph from a defense that was primarily 4-3 (with a lot of zone blitzing and occasionally a "functional" 3-4 where one of the down lineman drops into coverage without bringing the blitzer) to a hybrid 3-4 with 5 guys on the line rushing?
Yeah, but not really morphing into a 3-4, just 5 man pressure like giants and philly. If you have athletic lineman, it makes it better to do this. That's why I think smith was signed. He's a guy that has versitility. English, Barwin, and Matthews have been climbing up the board. I talked to my buddy who is a scout and he said its no doubt those 3 can play either olb on a 3-4 or 4-3. If they move down in the 20's if jenkins is gone, I think they will take one of the 3. Now with the zone dogs and blitzes you can create pressure and have free runners at the qb. Pitt and the giants are classic cases of why you don't need a high priced corner to have a good pass defense.
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