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Old 04-12-2009   #21
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
According to Richard Smith, he wanted his base defense to look the same every snap. So, at LB, we had a left and right LB, but not a SAM and WIL because they never flipped with the offensive alignment. Similarly, we didn't have a SS and a FS, just two safeties...
If you think about it, those are basic principles of Cover 2 since it is is for the most part a symmetric defense. In cover 2, you want smallish OLBs that can go sideline to sideline. Our problem here was that we should have faster OLBs for the scheme to even have a chance at working. Similarly, since both S are deep you need them to be hybrid FS/SS so they can fit whatever role is needed for each play. You can mix it up in cover 2, which is something Smith refused to do for some reason.
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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Basically, Smith just made it very easy for other teams to exploit weaknesses of our defense- always letting them know where we'd be lined up and never moving our players in a way that highlights their strengths and masks their weaknesses. Therefore, the only LB on our team that weighed less than 240 lbs (much less) ended up with a 270 lb TE in his face on running downs (whenever the opposing offense chose to exploit that matchup).
Yep, this is one of the weakness of the scheme. Cover 2 has always had issues against the run. It's just a very bad defense at hiding personnel deficiencies because of its reliance in symmetry. Add in Smith propensities to go prevent defense, pushing the DBs deeper, and it's no surprise that we couldn't stop the run. If we at least had been penetrating with the D-line instead of read and react we would have had a better chance. At least then we could have gotten some TFLs.
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Old 04-12-2009   #22
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

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Originally Posted by dsorc View Post
If you think about it, those are basic principles of Cover 2 since it is is for the most part a symmetric defense. In cover 2, you want smallish OLBs that can go sideline to sideline. Our problem here was that we should have faster OLBs for the scheme to even have a chance at working. Similarly, since both S are deep you need them to be hybrid FS/SS so they can fit whatever role is needed for each play. You can mix it up in cover 2, which is something Smith refused to do for some reason.

Yep, this is one of the weakness of the scheme. Cover 2 has always had issues against the run. It's just a very bad defense at hiding personnel deficiencies because of its reliance in symmetry. Add in Smith propensities to go prevent defense, pushing the DBs deeper, and it's no surprise that we couldn't stop the run. If we at least had been penetrating with the D-line instead of read and react we would have had a better chance. At least then we could have gotten some TFLs.

What isn't standard in Cover2 defenses is asking DTs to take on blocks instead of shooting gaps. The combination of a lack of agression with the front 4, mediocre talent, and poorly executed zone defense was a pretty potent recipe' for severe suckedness!
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Old 04-12-2009   #23
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
Let's now apply Pencil Necks observations from the Jags. game to this coming draft and season. As I understand it Adibi was sick with an unknown illness for the beginning and middle of the year and didn't start playing until about 2/3's of the way through the season and when he was playing his weight had dropped to around 230-235 lbs., but he played well at the WLB and according to Pencil Neck played well at SLB at least in this game. Recently I read an article on another Texans website that stated with the advent of this new offseason strength and conditioning program, Adibi has bulked up approx. 20 lbs. putting him in the lower 250 lbs. range. Now Adibi is fairly athletic and fast and I would suggest that since this years draft is very poor in 4-3 SLB's and much better with 4-3 WLB why not move Adibi to SLB and then draft a WLB. Adibi already has some experience playing SLB and with his added bulk it would be much easier for him to play the SLB than a rookie. At WLB there are guys like Nic Harris who's a SS last year but will most likely be moved to WLB in the NFL, Gerald McRath, and Deandre Levy who all have good speed. Their are of course other guys but it might be much easier for the Texans to find a 4-3 WLB in this draft than a 4-3 SLB and moving Adibi shouldn't be that difficult since he's played the position a little and is fairly athletic. Also with the addition of a better SS Adibi wouldn't have to do much pass coverage of the TE or RB either, though I think he could learn that fairly quickly as well. Opinions?
I know what you are referring to. There was no article that said he was around 250. One of the reporters saw him and thought he put on 20lbs due to the new S&C regimen. Here is the thing though, when he came out of college, he was 235 at his weigh in.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2008OLB.php

Unfortunately due to health problems he lost about 15 lbs and was listed at 220 or so. If he indeed put on 20lbs, he would be in the 240lb range. I'd prefer if he was around 245-250, but 240 is probably big enough to play Sam adequately. I would be concerned with a 230 or so lb Sam though.

I like the idea though of converting Adibi to a Sam and drafting a Will. In fact, I like it so much, I am gonna adopt it into my next Mock!
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Old 04-12-2009   #24
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

If we are considering moving a bulked up tackling machine like Adibi to Sam, & we've got Cato June playing Will.... we may not look at LB on the first day.

Three years in a row, I've been happily surprised by the Houston Texans on draft day.
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Old 04-12-2009   #25
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
According to Richard Smith, he wanted his base defense to look the same every snap. So, at LB, we had a left and right LB, but not a SAM and WIL because they never flipped with the offensive alignment. Similarly, we didn't have a SS and a FS, just two safeties...

Basically, Smith just made it very easy for other teams to exploit weaknesses of our defense- always letting them know where we'd be lined up and never moving our players in a way that highlights their strengths and masks their weaknesses. Therefore, the only LB on our team that weighed less than 240 lbs (much less) ended up with a 270 lb TE in his face on running downs (whenever the opposing offense chose to exploit that matchup).

The problem with this is... Adibi and Bentley were switching sides based on where the TE was.
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Old 04-12-2009   #26
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
If we are considering moving a bulked up tackling machine like Adibi to Sam, & we've got Cato June playing Will.... we may not look at LB on the first day.

Three years in a row, I've been happily surprised by the Houston Texans on draft day.
Or perhaps we grab a solid Will later on and have Cato groom him. The June signing is starting to make a lot more sense!
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Old 04-12-2009   #27
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

I remember a interview with Rick Smith when asked about his reasoning behing drafting Okoye. He said when u have 4 down lineman that can rush the passer w/o blitzing its invaluable...all due respect to Smith, while the theory is sound there is something i feel hes missing. I believe when you are able to have guys like Okoye or Mario ONE ON ONE with a O lineman..thats when u start to reap the benefits.

That being said, any given play u have 5 lineman blocking, 6 if the TE stays in. What needs to happen then is that we have to put 5 defenders against 5 lineman, meaning there has to be at LEAST one person blitzing almost every play. Seeming as TE serve as a check down/dump off for most Qbs even if they keep him in to block thats just one less outlet he has, thus putting more stress on his progression.

Long story short, if Bush sticks to his guns, saying our D is going to be more agressive (remember Richard Smith said the same thing when he got the job) then i believe our sack numbers will go through the roof. Have our interior guys shooting gaps AND have one LB blitzing, we will have a completely different team.

Im not one for long posts...just my honest opinion.
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Old 04-13-2009   #28
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

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Originally Posted by RipTraxx View Post
I remember a interview with Rick Smith when asked about his reasoning behing drafting Okoye. He said when u have 4 down lineman that can rush the passer w/o blitzing its invaluable...all due respect to Smith, while the theory is sound there is something i feel hes missing. I believe when you are able to have guys like Okoye or Mario ONE ON ONE with a O lineman..thats when u start to reap the benefits.

That being said, any given play u have 5 lineman blocking, 6 if the TE stays in. What needs to happen then is that we have to put 5 defenders against 5 lineman, meaning there has to be at LEAST one person blitzing almost every play. Seeming as TE serve as a check down/dump off for most Qbs even if they keep him in to block thats just one less outlet he has, thus putting more stress on his progression.

Long story short, if Bush sticks to his guns, saying our D is going to be more agressive (remember Richard Smith said the same thing when he got the job) then i believe our sack numbers will go through the roof. Have our interior guys shooting gaps AND have one LB blitzing, we will have a completely different team.

Im not one for long posts...just my honest opinion.
Tampa Bay had the best defense in the league for years and they only rushed four on every play. Having a 3 tech like Warren Sapp helps though.

It's a principle of the Cover 2. If you can get pressure with just your front four then you don't have to blitz and you can drop seven.

Gotta have the talent though.
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Old 04-13-2009   #29
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Tampa Bay had the best defense in the league for years and they only rushed four on every play. Having a 3 tech like Warren Sapp helps though.

It's a principle of the Cover 2. If you can get pressure with just your front four then you don't have to blitz and you can drop seven.

Gotta have the talent though.
It would help, if our 7 could cover.
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Old 04-13-2009   #30
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

Any defense well work wonders if you have the right players who fit the scheme. For example, the 46 Bear defense worked well and caused havoc for opposing offenses, Tampa 2 worked well with the Bucs thanks in large part due to Warren Sapp and Derrick Brooks. Variations also work well, USC runs a 3-4 Elephant defense where they can blitz the front 7 and or blitz with the front 4 and drop the rest in coverage (seldom done from what I've seen).

I'd like the Texans to try to use different schemes and coverages and packages, etc etc heck steal from Madden 09 if you have to during the preseason just so we have something different from the same base 4-3 defense.
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Old 04-13-2009   #31
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
The problem with this is... Adibi and Bentley were switching sides based on where the TE was.
Interesting. If that's the case, Adibi was indeed playing SLB though it's a cover 2 SLB with coverage as it's main responsibilities. This would make sense more against Indianapolis and Dallas Clark but I don't think the Jags pass to their TE that much. Having a 220 pound Adibi deal with Marcedes Lewis in the run game does not sound like a recipe for success.
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Old 04-13-2009   #32
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
According to Richard Smith, he wanted his base defense to look the same every snap. So, at LB, we had a left and right LB, but not a SAM and WIL because they never flipped with the offensive alignment. Similarly, we didn't have a SS and a FS, just two safeties...

Basically, Smith just made it very easy for other teams to exploit weaknesses of our defense- always letting them know where we'd be lined up and never moving our players in a way that highlights their strengths and masks their weaknesses. Therefore, the only LB on our team that weighed less than 240 lbs (much less) ended up with a 270 lb TE in his face on running downs (whenever the opposing offense chose to exploit that matchup).
I thought you had a gleam of the chat with Bush !?!

Defensive coordinator Frank Bush: We're going to mix it up. You have to. We're going to try to show similar looks and disguise our coverages and then make the quarterback think we're doing one thing and then we'll do another. We just want to make our coverages look the same and hopefully we'll trick the receiver and quarterback and force them into a mistake.
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Old 04-13-2009   #33
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

Maybe they should ask Eugene Wilson what they should do since he brought so much knowledge over last season
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Old 04-13-2009   #34
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I thought you had a gleam of the chat with Bush !?!

Defensive coordinator Frank Bush: We're going to mix it up. You have to. We're going to try to show similar looks and disguise our coverages and then make the quarterback think we're doing one thing and then we'll do another. We just want to make our coverages look the same and hopefully we'll trick the receiver and quarterback and force them into a mistake.
If you read the entire chat, he talks about playing the backend closer to the LOS, among other things. In the quote above, part of what you didn't bold, is the concept of confusing the QB. I thought it was pretty clear reading the entire chat what Bush wants out of his defense:

- aggressive pre-snap throughout the play.
- mixing up and disguising coverages

those are two essential things that Richard Smith's defense didn't do. The Bush quotes about simplicity, I think, are in reference to allowing the defense to aggressively attack the backfield instead of engaging the OL, diagnosing the play, and then reacting.
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Old 04-13-2009   #35
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

Richard Smith did the exact same thing as far as showing a base defense most of the time and doing different things from it.

The biggest difference with our defense,IMO, will be how the D-line plays.
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Old 04-13-2009   #36
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

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Richard Smith did the exact same thing as far as showing a base defense most of the time and doing different things from it.

The biggest difference with our defense,IMO, will be how the D-line plays.
I understand, but when the two safeties are 20 yards deep and the 2 CBs are generally 10 yards deep, it limits the options and effectiveness of much of what can be done. For example, a CB blitz isn't much of a problem when the CB has to come from that far away. According to Bush, the norm will be for the team to be lined up in a pressure look, which creates a pre-snap environment that makes the QB make certain decisions. It creates decision-making problems for almost every offensive player.

One reason why our blitzes were so easy to detect the past 2 seasons is because the blitzing players had to move towards the LOS from a normally deep and unthreatening position.
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Old 04-13-2009   #37
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

I wish the concept of the DBs lining up closer to the LOS, playing bump and run is a novelty idea. Alas, it's not!

If you run back the tape to the Lions' game, the first game Dunta was back and without Wilson in the line-up, we hardly played the secondary up tight.

But the next game agaisnt the Bengals with Wilson starting and Dunta having one game under his belt, that was when the Texans started bringing guys up.

They would get burned once in awhile but they got better, especially when Adibi was also in there.
If not for Manning, the Texans would probably be 5-0 with those 3 starting together.

And agaisnt the Titans, they'd have to be helmet to helmet with the receivers to be any closer to the LOS.

FWIW, here's a little excerpt after that game:

“Enthusiasm was sky-high,” Ryans said. “It was out of the roof. Everybody was into what we were doing. Everyone was excited. It was awesome. You play a lot better when guys are like that.”

This was the second time in four weeks that the Texans have held an opponent without a touchdown. Their last two opponents' third down conversion rates have been less than 20 percent.

“I’m very proud of the job (defensive coordinator) Richard (Smith) and his staff have done and the effort that we’re getting on that side of the ball right now,” Kubiak said.
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Old 04-13-2009   #38
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

I challenge you to find one scenario where we were blitzing from 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage.

I still think you're optimism is distorting and making too many assumptions about Frank Bush's vague chat responses.
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Old 04-13-2009   #39
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

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One reason why our blitzes were so easy to detect the past 2 seasons is because the blitzing players had to move towards the LOS from a normally deep and unthreatening position.
From what I witnessed, the Texans played up closer to the line of scrimmage a fair bit. I think Bush will be able to do more just because I think our defense will have more talent and speed than it had last year.

What I don't want Bush to do is forget about opposing personnel to the fact where he's trying to play aggresively but it's not working. I think we'll be more talented next year, but I don't see us as a defense that can come out and dictate what an offense does on a week to week basis.

That's why I said I think the most noticeable difference in scheme will be the play of the D-line...

If Bush comes out and tries to be the exact opposite of how Richard Smith was percieved, then he will fail.
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Old 04-13-2009   #40
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Default Re: Will vs. Sam

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I wish the concept of the DBs lining up closer to the LOS, playing bump and run is a novelty idea. Alas, it's not!

If you run back the tape to the Lions' game, the first game Dunta was back and without Wilson in the line-up, we hardly played the secondary up tight.

But the next game agaisnt the Bengals with Wilson starting and Dunta having one game under his belt, that was when the Texans started bringing guys up.
I agree, I think it had to do more with personnel. I currently coach a 8u girls softball team, and we have all our players playing deep. The idea is to keep the ball in front of them, so they can make a play. They're too slow, poor reflexes, and lack of athleticism prevents us from playing more aggressively.

Our LBs suck. On passing downs, you should imagine we are playing short 3 players, and we've got 4 safeties.

Zack Diles showed some promise, but imagining some improvement next season, I think that is were we should set the bar, for our backup.

Adibi on the other hand, looks like he could be a starter, if he improves.

Demeco, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. But Brian Urlacher does a much better job of getting deep, and has a better feel for what the QB wants to do. I understand, we're talking about Urlacher here, a perennial Pro-Bowler, but can anyone say that is not what we are looking for?
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