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Old 04-08-2009   #41
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Default Re: owen daniels unhappy as well?????

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Originally Posted by Pantherstang84 View Post
The players don't have to like Smith. Smith's job is to make sure the team gets value for what they are spending not bring doughnuts to the locker room every morning.
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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
It wouldn't surprise me. It is hard to do the things that GMs have to do and be the most liked guy.
I've got no issues with having a GM that negotiates the best deals for the team, keeps us out of cap hell, and even isn't everyone's 'favorite'. Heck he can be not liked for all I care. I guess what I was getting at is if players deeply dislike & don't respect a GM (ie he's a douche), and that causes issues with contract negotiations, then that would suck.

I'm hoping that, for the most part, all GM's aren't liked to a certain degree, but still respected enough by the players to not deter them from getting deals done. It should be an issue for the agents and the players should just play ball.

By us having 3 studs vocalize their contract displeasure, it concerns me. And I hope the GM isn't looked at by players in such a way that will make them want to play elsewhere.
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Old 04-08-2009   #42
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Default Re: owen daniels unhappy as well?????

Or is Daniels a 'product of Coach Kubiak's system' and if the Texans were to somehow land James Casey in the draft, could they just plug him or Joel Dreessen into the lineup an not skip a beat - and save a few million for DeMeco in the process?
I'm pretty sure the Texans think more of Daniels than that, and the more I think about it the more I think Kubiak thinks of Owen as his Witten - minus a couple inches, 20 lbs, and some blocking ability. While you can't compare the two physiically, you can compare their value to their respective teams.
In 2006, Witten was entering his fourth season like Daniels is now. The Cowboys locked him up that summer with a six-year, $29 million extension, which included a $12 million signing bonus.
I'm not sure whether Owen will get six years, but I'm guessing his guaranteed money demands are in the $12-$15 million territory.
http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Housto...-Daniels-worth
************************************
Here's a pretty good artical from the "Houston Examiner" by Alan Burge about
his thoughts on ODs market value in the wake of the Winslow contract.
BTW OD reportedly said "I donít think it hurt my situation", after hearing the
news of the Winslow deal. So far in 2009 that qualifies as my candidate for understatement of the year.
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Old 04-08-2009   #43
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Default Re: owen daniels unhappy as well?????

The thing that sucks is that we havent reached or won any playoff games so many of these players can leverage against us. I hope Daniels doesn't demand some crazy contract and if he does we should draft a TE in this year or next years draft. I know Daniels is a beast and if he wants to be reasonable with his contract then great, if not move along.
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Old 04-08-2009   #44
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Default Re: owen daniels unhappy as well?????

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Originally Posted by Hooston Texan View Post
You'll never see a cap on individual contracts for veterans. The league would have to break the union in half (like the NBA did 10 years ago) for that to happen. Rookie salaries will be the sacrificial lamb in the upcoming CBA negotiations because the yet-to-be-drafted don't get a vote in the NFLPA.

Re: the Daniels situation. The comments of Owen and his agent are absolutely part of the process. The guy who says publicly, "you know, I'm just not worth Kellen Winslow money" is the guy who gets a substandard contract. The team, for its part, is also playing this correctly by having Kubiak make conciliatory statements (his comments about understanding why Dunta/Demeco aren't participating) for public consumption. Make sure it is the GM, and not the coach, who plays bad cop in this situation.

This is why I think a coach should NEVER have double-duty as a GM. The GM position is inherently adversarial vis-a-vis the players. But a coach must have the players' complete trust.

Other than Andre Johnson, this is the first time the team has had to deal with resigning a player(s) who are significantly better than what they could get if they brought someone in off the street. I know we are all attached Ryans and Daniels, but we can't sacrifice our payroll flexibility going forward just to keep the current crop of RFA/UFA's happy.
Well said.

I would rather let both the defensive players go, and keep Daniels, if it's a matter of needing more cap space/money. Our offense has to have that TE who can explode off the line and get past the LBs, and OD can do that. Throw in the skills he has with his hands, and few mistakes with fumbling, and I think he's easily the one guy out of the three that the GM should be careful about.

Our defense is in such a weird state of shamble'ness that to me, at this juncture, I'd rather have Diles, Adibi, the other LBs on roster (June, for example), and a draft pick at LB rather than put all our eggs in the DeMeco Ryans basket.

Look for us to secure these top four positions in the first four rounds:

LB
DB
TE
RB

Those first three positions are currently held by three guys who are sitting still on contract negotiations, at the moment, and I bet that's the reason the talks have chilled: We're waiting to see what we can get out of the draft. RB is something we need to add depth with.

Just a theory, but hey...isn't all of it?
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Old 04-08-2009   #45
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Default Re: owen daniels unhappy as well?????

I hate to say that a guy is the "product of the system", but OD may be. He has the talent and skill to exploit it, but this system is user friendly. Casey could plug in and do just fine. He is also very flexable. I would draft him in the 2nd in a heart beat.
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Old 04-08-2009   #46
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Default Re: owen daniels unhappy as well?????

We need to pay our pro bowl level players.

Pay Ryans & Daniels

Dunta not so much
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Old 04-08-2009   #47
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Default Re: owen daniels unhappy as well?????

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Originally Posted by BigBull17 View Post
I hate to say that a guy is the "product of the system", but OD may be. He has the talent and skill to exploit it, but this system is user friendly. Casey could plug in and do just fine. He is also very flexable. I would draft him in the 2nd in a heart beat.
Not sure I fully agree. Anybody want to think of letting Dreesen take the wheel, full time, as our TE?

The TE would have to be a guy with quickness and not some bulky Bubba Franks-type of bruiser. Schaub uses OD pretty well as a safety valave when LBs are blitzing or Schaub's under pressure and needs a guy to go to.

I'm not saying only OD can do that, but it sure is nice to know we already have a guy who can (Daniels). The best thing is if we draft one, not just for depth, but mostly for the express purpose of having a possible Plan B if Owen Daniels and the Texans can't agree on a contract.
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Old 04-09-2009   #48
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Default Re: owen daniels unhappy as well?????

Those who vociferously insisted that Ryans and Robinson be run out of town should stay consistent and demand that Daniels join them on whatever travel conveyance is chosen.

or are these "shut-up-and-play" "principles" a function of who's doing the complaining about their contract??
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Old 04-09-2009   #49
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Default Re: owen daniels unhappy as well?????

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Those who vociferously insisted that Ryans and Robinson be run out of town should stay consistent and demand that Daniels join them on whatever travel conveyance is chosen.

or are these "shut-up-and-play" "principles" a function of who's doing the complaining about their contract??
Not that I agree (or disgaree) with what was said about Ryans and Robinson, but how is it relevant to OD? He showed up to camp and has remained respectful of the organization. He merely admitted that the thought of skipping out crossed his mind. You might or might not like that, but it is apples and oranges in comparison to the Ryans/Robinson situation.
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Old 04-09-2009   #50
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Default Re: owen daniels unhappy as well?????

No one has broken any rules.
This camp is "optional". Some guys decided not to attend. Most did.

...and I still all this (at least for Ryans and Daniels) will be worked out by the time pre-season rolls around.
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Old 04-09-2009   #51
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Default Re: owen daniels unhappy as well?????

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Those who vociferously insisted that Ryans and Robinson be run out of town should stay consistent and demand that Daniels join them on whatever travel conveyance is chosen.

or are these "shut-up-and-play" "principles" a function of who's doing the complaining about their contract??
I agree with the Zero....

With Dunta & Ryans, we know that reasonable offers have been made. Yet they don't show up to OTAs. I know they are voluntary, but Dunta always showed up. He's saying something with this.

Demeco, I'm not sooo sure, but rumor is that he was offered top 5 LB money, and he mentioned not showing up as a sign of his discontent.

Now, I don't agree that we should be too willing to let Demeco go. I don't think we should bend over, and let him have his way with us or anything, but I do hope we get a deal done, before TC.
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Old 04-10-2009   #52
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Default Re: owen daniels unhappy as well?????

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Right now, I'm thinking the Texans look like idiots for not getting something done sooner. I know no one had any idea Winslow was going to be able to get what he did. $20 mill Guaranteed???

But had the Texans not slept on this, they wouldn't have to deal with the Winslow deal, and we wouldn't have to worry about upsetting/hurting OD.




I think it's obvious, that I don't understand the gravity of the situation.

Let's say he doesn't get a long term deal. He plays his but off next year, goes to another pro-bowl... then what?

His agent & Rick Smith would still need to get together, and put together a deal, to keep him on the team. There is no cap, so it's possible he can get an even bigger deal next year. There's no danger of being franchised. & there's no danger of us not working out a new contract with him.

The only danger is that he gets hurt, and isn't able to play at the level he currently is, or that we expect him to in the future. I understand that is a very real danger, but that has nothing to do with the CBA.
I dunno about that one....wasn't two months ago we had a thread arguing for thirteen pages over whether or not he was worth a first round pick ?

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...t=Owen+Daniels

With this one being my favorite:

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...&postcount=252

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Old 04-10-2009   #53
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Default Re: owen daniels unhappy as well?????

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Originally Posted by dunta23 View Post
rick smith is starting to piss me off a little bit here not wanting to pay the players that win games for us... PAY THEM for F sakes...
They will get paid...the Texans still have a lot of money under the cap.
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Old 04-10-2009   #54
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Default Re: owen daniels unhappy as well?????

wake me up when its August please.
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Old 04-11-2009   #55
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Default Re: owen daniels unhappy as well?????

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on April 10, 2009 11:59 AM | Permalink | Comments (0) | TrackBacks (0)

From afar, Owen Daniels seems like someone who gets it, so it wasn't a total surprise that the Texans Pro Bowl tight end didn't skip the team's offseason conditioning program. But the thought did cross his mind, as he told John McClain of the Houston Chronicle this week.

As a third-year restricted free agent who was tendered the maximum, Daniels is guaranteed a one-year deal worth $2.79 million, and any other team that signs him would have to forfeit first- and third-round picks, assuming the Texans don't match the offer. That's a steep price, but so is the $20.1 million in guaranteed salary Tampa Bay recently gave Kellen Winslow Jr.

The Naperville Central graduate told McClain that he'd like long-term security in Houston, but also realizes that the Winslow deal won't hurt his negotiations.
http://blogs.suburbanchicagonews.com...th_the_te.html
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Old 04-11-2009   #56
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Default Re: owen daniels unhappy as well?????

I'd pay OD what he's worth long before I paid Dunta what he "thinks" he's worth. Besides being a dependable receiver, OD is a helluva a blocker. Pay the man.

I think that in most of these cases, Rick Smith is simply allowing the current contracts to expire, much i n the financial favor to the Texans. In the case of Dunta, it only makes sense that he needs a good year to prove he's durable. In the case of OD, his paltry contract will be up soon, and he'll get his payday when it's time.
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Old 04-11-2009   #57
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Default Re: owen daniels unhappy as well?????

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I'd pay OD what he's worth long before I paid Dunta what he "thinks" he's worth. Besides being a dependable receiver, OD is a helluva a blocker. Pay the man.

I think that in most of these cases, Rick Smith is simply allowing the current contracts to expire, much i n the financial favor to the Texans. In the case of Dunta, it only makes sense that he needs a good year to prove he's durable. In the case of OD, his paltry contract will be up soon, and he'll get his payday when it's time.
More than durability, management should be concerned about his level of play.
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Old 04-13-2009   #58
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Default Re: owen daniels unhappy as well?????

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Originally Posted by drewmar74 View Post
Winslow's deal is retarded. I don't know if anyone in the league should use that as a yardstick for other TE deals. They'll try, though, I'm sure.

If it came down to OD trying to get Winslow money or walking..... I'd let him walk.

*prepares to duck rocks that are sure to be thrown*
I dunno but maybe this is the payback to the Texans for giving 'Phins OT Todd Wade that ridiculous contract that included 10 million gauranteed back in 2004 ? Back then that was LT money and Wade turned out to be disappointing as a RT for the Texans. Atleast Winslow is an established talent.
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Old 04-14-2009   #59
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Default Re: owen daniels unhappy as well?????

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More than durability, management should be concerned about his level of play.
Yup...I completely agree, and that's exactly why I said that he needs a GOOD year to prove he's durable.
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Old 04-14-2009   #60
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Default Re: owen daniels unhappy as well?????

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wake me up when its August please.
I agree. This happens on every team, especially the good ones. People want more money, want to negotiate, say things to get leverage and at the end of the day they sign and play. Dunta is the only one who I am worried about, I still have concerns about his health post-injury.

One question, if the D-line plays better, is Demeco going to get as much action as he did in years past?
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