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Old 03-25-2009   #1
nero THE zero
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Default Brisiel gets performance bonus

I know Brisiel seems to be a favorite whipping boy around here, but that criticism is turning out to be undeserved.

LZ has been on the Brisiel bandwagon for a while, calling him one of our best linemen. From a comment in his blog:
http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootba....html#comments
Quote:
Daniels, Brisiel and Winston are more than just guys. Kevin Walter might be as well. Pitts is better than many guards around the league although I personally don't think he's better than Brisiel.
Further, Brisiel received a nice little bonus from the league:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6339048.html
Quote:
Brisiel hits jackpot — Texans right guard Mike Brisiel, who played every play of every game last season, is getting an additional $304,063 through the NFL’s performance-based pay distribution.

The bonus is a welcome addition for Brisiel, who earned $376,720 last season.

It’s a complicated formula the league uses to calculate performance by players based on their salary level. Brisiel was one of 25 players to get a bonus. San Diego offensive tackle Jeromey Clary got the most ($405,859).
The interior of our line could surely use some work, but the people looking to replace Brisiel might be looking in the wrong direction.
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Old 03-25-2009   #2
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Default Re: Brisiel gets performance bonus

I might be wrong, but I don't think that the bonus is related to the quality of the performance. I get the impression it is based on snaps/ or some other measure of time on the field - so if a lower salary player plays a lot, there is a metric for obtaining a bonus. I don't think that they have guys at the NFL front office who are making subjective determinations on which guys deserve more money.

I don't think anyone here has argued that Brisiel is not better than anyone else we have on the roster - which is clearly why he is on the field so much. The argument is that team can use an upgrade at this position.
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Old 03-25-2009   #3
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Default Re: Brisiel gets performance bonus

My beef has never been with Brisiel, it's always been with our crappy overmatched center (and by crappy, I mean shitty, I still remember the Steelers tackling Slaton by throwing Myers into the backfield and through Slaton)....that's where the problem in the line lies.
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Old 03-25-2009   #4
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Default Re: Brisiel gets performance bonus

Good for Brisiel.

He did get better the second half of the season, but I will admit that I thought he was just as bad as Meyers the first half of the season. I still believe that too.

Hopefully he continues to improve. Meyers on the other hand........?
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Old 03-25-2009   #5
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Default Re: Brisiel gets performance bonus

I don't understand why Briesel and Myers don't get the same pass Matt Schaub gets. For the record, I like all of them.

But folks argue that they wouldn't get rid of Schaub because he was the QB for the 3rd ranked offense in the leauge...Well...Briesel and Myers started more games than Matt and they helped us have a really good year running the ball. If ZBS normally have certain type of players along the o-line that are better fits than others, how do you know you're not cutting off your finger to get rid of the wart?

Yes they have their defenciencies, but so does Schaub....I've seen Matt look just as bad or worse than these guys on several occasions......I don't get folks acting like these guys didn't belong on the field last year...

Last edited by Polo; 03-25-2009 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 03-25-2009   #6
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Default Re: Brisiel gets performance bonus

The Brisiel whining is ignorant and unfounded. Why do people complain about the offense so much? Dear God the O is fine its our D we should be whining about.
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Old 03-25-2009   #7
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Default Re: Brisiel gets performance bonus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo View Post
I don't understand why Briesel and Myers don't get the same pass Matt Schaub gets. For the record, I like all of them.

But folks argue that they wouldn't get rid of Schaub because he was the QB for the 3rd ranked offense in the leauge...Well...Briesel and Myers started more games than Matt and they helped us have a really good year running the ball. If ZBS normally have certain type of players along the o-line that are better fits than others, how do you know you're not cutting off your finger to get rid of the wart?

Yes they have their defenciencies, but so does Schaub...I don't get folks acting like these guys didn't belong on the field last year...
Anytime we got in "tough running" situations...like on the goal line. Myers got absolutely manhandled (and he's a big reason why Brisiel got a bad rap on this board). Yes, hes athletic enough to get off the ball and make blocks in space/middle of the field, but when it was time to hold the line Myers was a absolute failure. Also Schaub and Myers aren't comparable...there were alot of time Schaub and Rosenfels had to throw from a dirty pocket, because people were pushing Myers in their face.

Myers is not a starting center (he's a very, very good backup/pinch starter though)..he was the reason why Slaton met people in the backfield on many occasions.
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Old 03-25-2009   #8
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Default Re: Brisiel gets performance bonus

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Originally Posted by m5kwatts View Post
The Brisiel whining is ignorant and unfounded. Why do people complain about the offense so much? Dear God the O is fine its our D we should be whining about.
I just can't take you seriously when you're not chopped and screwed...
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Old 03-25-2009   #9
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Default Re: Brisiel gets performance bonus

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Anytime we got in "tough running" situations...like on the goal line. Myers got manhandled. Yes, hes athletic enough to get off the ball and make blocks in space, but when it was time to hold the line Myers was a absolute failure. Also Schaub and Myers aren't comparable.

Myers is not a starting center..he was the reason why Slaton met people in the backfield on many occasions.
Why aren't Myer and Schaub comparable ?

And the ZBS as a whole is not known for excelling in "tough running situations"...When the field gets shorter, the advantage of the smaller linemen outquicking the defensive players is somewhat lost....

If you bring in a lineman that excels in short yardage situations, how do you know we won't lose a little of what we do in between the 20's ? I'm not saying that Briesel is the oh, so perfect fit and that no one can be better than him, but I don't get why Matt Schaub gets a pass for his terrible moments while playing in the third ranked offense, but Briesel doesn't when he was way more consistent for us...

Plus, it's not like it's out of the realm of possibility that these guys get better...They don't have a whole lot of snaps under their belts....Getting blown up a few times by stronger dudes is really nothing...I just didn't see it as something that greatly interfered or hampered our offense, but I dunno....

Not sure why the two can't be compared other than because you said it?

Last edited by Polo; 03-25-2009 at 02:25 PM.
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Old 03-25-2009   #10
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Default Re: Brisiel gets performance bonus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo View Post
Why aren't Myer and Schaub comparable ?
Well for one, they play completely different positions and two, I already said why (maybe you caught me in between a post edit???....go back and read above for you answer.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo View Post
And the ZBS as a whole is not known for excelling in "tough running situations"...When the field gets shorter, the advantage of the smaller linemen outquicking the defensive players is somewhat lost...
ZBS lineman are known for getting exposed when they have to throw alot, which is why many Denver fans have told us to beware if we get down by double digits. This line shoud atleast be good in goal line situations.....they were in Denver? As far as Denver goes, something is up when they're willing to dump a "promising starting center" for a 6th round pick when their starter was on his last leg. That's all you need to know about what that "ZBS" team thought about Myers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo View Post
If you bring in a lineman that excels in short yardage situations, how do you know we won't lose a little of what we do in between the 20's ? I'm not saying that Briesel is the oh, so perfect fit and that no one can be better than him, but I don't get why Matt Schaub gets a pass for his terrible moments while playing in the third ranked offense, but Briesel doesn't...

Not sure why the two can't be compared other than because you said it?
I never said anything about Briesel, I like him. My beef is with Myers and Myers alone....and like I said multiple times now, in no shape or form is a QB comparable to a lineman. I was tough on Schaub early on last season, but he IMPROVED as the season went on. Myers did not, Myers was OVERMATCHED from beginning to end, and he needs to be replaced. His position is actually my "wild card" in this upcoming draft (so don't freak out Texan fans when we take a center early in this draft). I could see us spending one of our first day picks on a center to fix this problem and while people may ***** and moan about it, I hope they do (Texans FO). This team needs muscle and junk in the trunk up the middle....Slaton got manhandled, because Myers couldn't tote the line and hold his man or the middle of the line.
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Last edited by Carr Bombed; 03-25-2009 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 03-25-2009   #11
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Old 03-25-2009   #12
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Default Re: Brisiel gets performance bonus

Briesel is a good Guard. I don't think we could find better guard combinations than what we have now. Briesel gets beat sometimes, but he's still a relatively young player. He's only been a starter for what, 2 years?

Myers, though, is the weakness of the line...I don't think he's our long-term solution.
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Old 03-25-2009   #13
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Default Re: Brisiel gets performance bonus

The draft has a lot of talent in the interior OL this season. Its not that Myers or Brisiel are such a glaring weakness they need to be replaced. Its just that the value will be in getting one of these stud OG/Centers rather than another CB who isn't any more talented than what we've got on the roster already.


Its very likely we can pick up a guy in the 3rd/4th round that will be starting at either C/RG by the middle of next season. That isn't an indictment of Brisiel or Myers, its just an excellent opportunity to further strengthen our team and an opportunity to have some real depth for the first time in franchise history on the OL.
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Old 03-25-2009   #14
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Default Re: Brisiel gets performance bonus

I've been looking through pictures of the Rosencopter game (Colts), courtesy of Bullpen photos, of course. Awesome pictures as usual.

Granted, these are only pictures and don't tell the entire story, but they are darn close.

In the first half, I've got Myers being beat twice, Pitts once, Brown twice and Brisiel once. When Brisiel was beat he had the back of his legs taken out, but I counted it anyway because he was pushed back far enough to get folded backwards. Daniels and Dresson were both left 1 on 1 with Freeney on different occasions. Why? I don't know.

These are only personal observations so no need for bashing
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Old 03-25-2009   #15
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Default Re: Brisiel gets performance bonus

Brisiel got a performance bonus because he played a certain percentage of our snaps. That shows that he beat out the other players for the RG spot. Thinking Brisiel should be our starting RG strictly because of this bonus would be like if Ephraim Salaam got a bonus for playing a % of snaps in '07 and us saying we shouldn't address the LT position.

I like Brisiel and Myers. I think both have a place on this team and fully support that. I think they'll continue to improve as they all play together in this system. But that's the extent of it. I think the C/RG position can be upgraded and if we have a position to do so, I would welcome that. I'm not saying cut them, I'm saying they would be great back ups if we were to get better players. I'm fully aware of our offensive yardage statistics and that our defense has a lot of needs. But you have to look at every position each season and see how you can make the team better. I think it would be a mistake to neglect a bigger need with a superior talent- be that C/G, DT, OLB, CB, S, etc.

In anycase, we've got to get better depth on the OL. Be that from a better C/G and making Myers/Brisiel depth or finding better depth behind them. Some people want Wells at RB in the 1st round. If that's how it goes, he becomes our #1 RB and our primary RB while Slaton becomes the backup and splits carries with Wells. That's my opinion anyways. Same goes for the OL, choose a new starter or get some depth behind the current. Pick you poison.
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Old 03-25-2009   #16
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Default Re: Brisiel gets performance bonus

Good for Brisiel but that doesn't make him untouchable. I'm upgrading Myers first though, then probably G and C/G depth. There's no way the Texans make it out of this draft without at least 1 interior lineman because as fortunate as they were to have no injuries on the line there are no guarantees for the future. I think Butler is fine T depth but Studdard is a bad joke and honestly I don't even think Brisiel has a backup. Chris White still around? We wouldn't have to try very hard to get an upgrade there.
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Old 03-25-2009   #17
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Default Re: Brisiel gets performance bonus

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
Brisiel got a performance bonus because he played a certain percentage of our snaps. That shows that he beat out the other players for the RG spot. Thinking Brisiel should be our starting RG strictly because of this bonus would be like if Ephraim Salaam got a bonus for playing a % of snaps in '07 and us saying we shouldn't address the LT position.
Do you have a link that states that Brisiel's bonus was strictly based on snap percentages? The article states, "It’s a complicated formula the league uses to calculate performance by players based on their salary level." If it was as simple as number of snaps, I don't know why McClain wouldn't have said so. I also don't know why it would be called the "performance-based pay distribution" if it had to do wholly with snaps and nothing with performance.
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Old 03-25-2009   #18
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Default Re: Brisiel gets performance bonus

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
My beef has never been with Brisiel, it's always been with our crappy overmatched center (and by crappy, I mean shitty, I still remember the Steelers tackling Slaton by throwing Myers into the backfield and through Slaton)....that's where the problem in the line lies.
You might not care, but Chris Myer's dad participates in this MB. Have an opinion but I doubt you want someone to write your son is "shitty".
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Old 03-25-2009   #19
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Default Re: Brisiel gets performance bonus

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Do you have a link that states that Brisiel's bonus was strictly based on snap percentages? The article states, "It’s a complicated formula the league uses to calculate performance by players based on their salary level." If it was as simple as number of snaps, I don't know why McClain wouldn't have said so. I also don't know why it would be called the "performance-based pay distribution" if it had to do wholly with snaps and nothing with performance.
Well, no, that's a good point. When it comes to skilled positions such as QB, it's usually a little easier (for the casual fan) to be able to follow certain performance incentives and/or requirements. Some may be top 5 in league for TD passes, passer rating, yards, etc. Sometimes there are addition, specific, incentives such as a passer rating of at least 95, completion % of at least 59.99, average yards per pass, at least 1,801 passing yards, at least 25 Tds, etc. Other positions such as DE you can measure tackles, sacks, etc. much easier than OL.

I think thats the formula may be "complicated" and have no idea how they measure that. I think a large part has to do with salary and # of snaps played. This is usually a good indicator that a player may be contributing at a higher level than expected. In that sense, I suspect that's a large part of the bonus. In cases such as the Texans, it could be just because he's the best of the bunch. May not be all that good but there's nobody else to start. Of course if he was that bad a team would do its best to replace him somehow. Do I think that's completely the case with Brisiel? No, but partly. It'd be unfair to just say it was him or studdard so he gets the nod but doesn't deserve any bonus. I completely agree he played at a level above MY expectations. I think the staff sees something in him to let him get that playing time and develop as a player. I think he was the best option we had last year and in thinking of the OL as a whole going forward. I think he's got a good chance to develop into a solid starter for us for a long time.

In anycase, I think it's well deserved.
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Old 03-25-2009   #20
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Default Re: Brisiel gets performance bonus

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My beef has never been with Brisiel, it's always been with our crappy overmatched center (and by crappy, I mean shitty, I still remember the Steelers tackling Slaton by throwing Myers into the backfield and through Slaton)....that's where the problem in the line lies.
I think we could use an upgrade at C and RG, as I've mentioned previously. But I do think Myers and Brisiel both can be solid contributers on the team. I LOVED the trade with Denver getting Myers for what a 6th rd pick? I think that was a steal on our part.

I wonder though, how Myers would be as a Guard, I think that's what he played at in Denver. Could be wrong though. I think both Myers and Brisiel improved over the course of the season and should continue to during the offseason. I think they and the entire OL counting Brown and Winston should be better next year. With that said, the OL and DL are the two areas where I'm always looking to upgrade. I want to have completely dominant Lines. That's why most of my thinking is that if Myers and Brisiel who are capable of starting for our team for the full season are our backups... that would mean we would have one sick OL!
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