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Old 01-18-2005   #61
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Your point is the guy with the fattest contract should play? Tell that to Bosselli.
No that is not my point. And the Boselli thing was different, his was due to injury. What I am saying is that Coleman is getting paid $3 mil+ a season for the next 3 seasons and he played pretty **** good for this being his first season at FS. IMO why bring in someone else who you don't know how they will pan out, to replace Coleman who has done a solid job and who is getting paid starter money. Also, we still have McCree who is a solid backup FS, who was our starter at one time, I just cannot remember if he is a UFA or RFA.
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Old 01-18-2005   #62
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
3) The Texans have a far better idea than anyone around here about the likelihood of Joppru playing.
All we can do about that is pray every night before we fall asleep...
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Old 01-18-2005   #63
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Originally Posted by Fiddy
If we do take a WR, I would much rather have Braylon Edwards then Mike Williams (although he will be gone according to this draft). That is my opinion though...
Well so would I but in Kiper's scenario Edwards is already gone.

Coleman's contract was for $9.5 mil, but $5 mil came in signing bonus so it is guaranteed--they didn't give him that expecting to replace him in the 1st two years so wish in one hand and ... in the other .... Yes it reduced the cap hit for 2004 from a fairly high CB salary to a fairly high safety salary but it put more guaranteed money into the contract as well.

And for god's sake folks, please don't extend the shutdown insanity to safeties--it is bad enough seeing every CB down into the 6th round described as a potential shutdown CB.
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Old 01-18-2005   #64
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I think McCree is an UFA.

I can't believe infantrycak isn't interested in a shutdown DT or a shutdown DE. Those guys are great in coverage.
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Old 01-18-2005   #65
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Originally Posted by Bottle-O-Bud
You guys seem to forget that our D needs a FS and SS. Look, Coleman was not a shutdown safety like I envisioned him to be. If we draft a Safety and Earl works out, Coleman might not even start.....
Since this safety fascination is mystifying to some of us, how about explaining what in the limited playing time Earl had this year were the specific weaknesses in his game that tell you he won't be a solid NFL SS? Examples would even be nice.
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Old 01-18-2005   #66
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If he would still be on the board for us (which seems a real stretch), you
gotta figure we could trade that pick down and get a lot for it, which would
seem to be the most practicle thing for us to do (sorta the reverse Babin
move from last year), given all the needs we have. But yea, having AJ and
M.Williams both as your WRs would be real special.
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Old 01-18-2005   #67
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Here is the full mock...

1. San Francisco 49ers: Alex Smith (jr.), QB, Utah
A smart player who will pick up an NFL system quickly, Smith has good size, is mobile enough to hurt teams with his running ability and is also an efficient passer who can make all the necessary throws.

2. Miami Dolphins: Cedric Benson, RB, Texas
A strong, tough runner with good speed for his size, Benson would help fill the void left by the retirement of Ricky Williams. But there is speculation the Dolphins will attempt to fill their running back need through trade, perhaps for Buffalo's Travis Henry, so stay tuned.

3. Cleveland Browns: Aaron Rodgers (jr.), QB, California
Rodgers is a smart, accurate passer with a quick release. His arm strength is adequate and he is a better prospect at this point in his career than former Cal QB Kyle Boller, now the starter for the Baltimore Ravens.

4. Chicago Bears: Ronnie Brown, RB, Auburn
Perhaps the most complete back in the draft, Brown can carry or catch the ball with equal skill. He has size, instincts and quickness that allowed him to put up excellent numbers at the college level.

5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Carnell Wiliams, RB, Auburn
A creative, deceptive runner with tremendous natural skills. Williams can get tough yards inside despite lacking ideal size, a point illustrated by his 29 rushing TDs over the last two years

6. Tennessee Titans: Adam Jones, CB, West Virginia
A good cover man who will also contribute as a kick returner, Jones has very good closing speed and is a willing tackler in run support. That may be his most important quality with the NFL hurting pass defenses by focusing on downfield infractions by defensive backs.

7. Oakland Raiders: Dan Cody, DE, Oklahoma
A fiery, intense player who always goes all-out, Cody is similar to former NFL standout Kevin Greene in his ability to play on his feet as an outside linebacker, or in a three-point stance as a defensive end.

8. Arizona Cardinals: Travis Johnson, DT, Florida State
Johnson improved his stock immensely this year. He ties up offensive linemen and is able to gain penetration against the run as well as collapse the pocket in passing situations.

9. Washington Redskins: Braylon Edwards, WR, Michigan
Edwards has the size, speed and athleticism to take over games, and he did that several times in 2004. He also significantly cut down on dropped passes and concentration lapses this past season, pushing his stock even higher.

10. Detroit Lions: Heath Miller (jr.), TE, Virginia
A tremendous pass receiver and a willing blocker along the line, Miller would give quarterback Joey Harrington another weapon to complement his wide receivers. He'll also be a help to running back Kevin Jones in the rushing attack.

11. Dallas Cowboys: Shawne Merriman (jr.), DE/OLB, Maryland
A workout warrior with incredible physical skills, Merriman would be an ideal end/linebacker combo in a 3-4 scheme.

12. San Diego Chargers (from NYG): Derrick Johnson, OLB, Texas
Has the speed and strength to chase ballcarriers from sideline to sideline and make things happen when he gets to the ball.

13. Houston Texans: Mike Williams (jr.), WR, USC
Williams did not play in 2004 but dominated the college game for two seasons while at USC. His 6-foot-5, 230-pound frame gives him a big advantage over defensive backs, and he would make a perfect complement to young standout receiver Andre Johnson.

14. Carolina Panthers: Jammal Brown, OT, Oklahoma
Brown's long arms, good feet and balance allow him to engage defenders easily and move them off the ball or away from the quarterback.

15. Kansas City Chiefs: Antrel Rolle, CB, Miami
The Chiefs likely will dedicate most of their draft to defense, and Rolle is a good start. He has the cover skills to shut down wide receivers and also gives up his body against the run.

16. New Orleans Saints: Thomas Davis (jr.), OLB, Georgia
A punishing tackler who played safety in college, Davis has the size and speed to move into the front seven and make an impact at the pro level.

17. Cincinnati Bengals: Erasmus James, DE, Wisconsin
A force along the line of scrimmage, James can play the run, rush the passer and command double-team blocks. There are some durability questions, though, after he missed parts of the last two seasons with injury.

18. Minnesota Vikings: Shaun Cody, DL, USC
A versatile lineman who can play end or tackle, Cody would be a great fit for a Vikings team that has struggled at times along the defensive front.

19. St. Louis Rams: David Pollack, DE, Georgia
Pollack plays with tremendous intensity and his motor does not stop. He makes up for a lack of size with good initial quickness and great closing speed.

20. Dallas Cowboys (from BUF): Troy Williamson (jr.), WR, South Carolina
The fastest wideout in the draft, Williamson would be a great help to a team that lacked a consistent vertical threat.

21. Jacksonville Jaguars: Alex Barron, OT, Florida State
Barron is equally adept in the passing and running games and has light feet for a player his size.

22. Baltimore Ravens: Roddy White, WR, UAB
White's 4.42 speed in the 40 gives him a size/speed combination in the elite category. He is a big-play wideout who averaged 20.0 yards per catch in 2004.

23. Seattle Seahawks: Darryl Blackstock (jr.), OLB, Virginia
Blackstock is a solid all-around talent who shows flashes of greatness and has tremendous natural physical skills.

24. Green Bay Packers: Channing Crowder (so.), MLB, Florida
A tremendously productive player who adapted quickly to the collegiate game, Crowder has the ideal physical skills for a man in the middle.

25. Denver Broncos: Matt Roth, DE, Iowa
Roth is similar to David Pollack: undersized with a great motor and intensity. Roth was productive during his senior year and has good physical ability.

26. New York Jets: Carlos Rogers, CB, Auburn
A consistent, durable corner who can cover and support the run, Rogers has played against some of the best talent in the nation during his career.

27. Atlanta Falcons: Brandon Browner (so.), CB, Oregon State
A consistent cover man with good size, Browner would make a nice complement to Atlanta's top pick last year, CB DeAngelo Hall.

28. San Diego Chargers: Roscoe Parrish (jr.), WR, Miami
Parrish has speed and would be a good option to round out a receiving corps bolstered by the addition of WR Keenan McCardell and the emergence of TE Antonio Gates.

29. Indianapolis Colts: Bryant McFadden, CB, Florida State
Did not intercept many passes, but that's because teams respected his ability and avoided his side of the field. McFadden has the size to match up with big receivers.

30. New England Patriots: Justin Miller (jr.), CB, Clemson
A good fit for a team thin in the secondary this season.

31. Philadelphia Eagles: Justin Tuck (jr.), DE, Notre Dame
Good size and strength. Would be an asset for a team that thrives on pressuring the quarterback.

32. Pittsburgh Steelers: Alex Smith, TE, Stanford
An athletic pass receiver with great body control, Smith can stretch the deep middle and is a good hook-zone threat.

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Old 01-18-2005   #68
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Originally Posted by AlexVanderpool
1. San Francisco 49ers- Alex Smith-QB-Utah*
2. Miami Dolphins- Cedric Benson-RB-Texas
3. Cleveland Browns- Aaron rogers
4. Chicago Bears- ronnie brown rb
5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers- carnell williams rb
6. Tennessee Titans- adam jones cb
7. Oakland Raiders- dan cody lb
8. Arizona Cardinals- travis johnson dt
9. Washington Redskins- braylon edwards wr
10. Detroit Lions- heath miller te
11. Dallas Cowboys- shawne merriman olb
12. San Diego Chargers(NYG)- derrick johnson lb
13. Houston Texans- MIKE WILLIAMS WR
14. Carolina Panthers- jammal brown ot
15. Kansas City Chiefs- antrel rolle cb
16. New Orleans Saints- thomas davis s
17. Cincinnati Bengals- erasmus james de
18. Minnesota Vikings*- shaun cody dl
19. St. Louis Rams*- david pollack de
20. Dallas Cowboys(BUF)- troy williamson wr
21. Jacksonville Jaguars- alex barron ot
22. Baltimore Ravens- roddy white wr
23. Seattle Seahawks*- darryl blackstock olb
24. Green Bay Packers*- channing crowder olb
25. Denver Broncos*- matt roth de
26. New York Jets*- carlos rogers cb
27. Atlanta Falcons*- brandon browner cb
28. San Diego Chargers*- roscoe parrish wr
29. Indianapolis Colts*- bryant mcfadden cb
30. Philadelphia Eagles*- justin miller cb
31. New England Patriots*- justin tuck de
32. Pittsburgh Steelers*- alex smith te
the bears wont take a rb before a wr. edwards or mike willams to chicago
if derrik johnson fell to past dallas i know caserly would try to get him
if rolle is available at 13 it is a much easier and a much smarter choice than williams.
williams will be a great player in this league, but not on our team.
detroit will probally take thomas davis.
alex barron wont fall to 21, if he is there and rolle isnt i would like to see us take him.
RECAP: rolle or barron before williams
if johnson is there at 12, we should trade up one s
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Old 01-18-2005   #69
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Originally Posted by Bottle-O-Bud
You guys seem to forget that our D needs a FS and SS. Look, Coleman was not a shutdown safety like I envisioned him to be. If we draft a Safety and Earl works out, Coleman might not even start.....
LoL...he made a funny
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Old 01-18-2005   #70
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Kiper throws us a bone and we salivate all over it... at least *I* did at the thought of getting Mike Williams at WR.

In MY mind for that spot, I was looking at best available player and NOT at needs. I agree with a lot of you that WR isn't our most glaring need, although a WR of his caliber certainly doesn't hurt matters.

Our most glaring need is either the O-line or D-line for sure. Our most pressing problems can be solved by addressing these.

Still though, isn't that gleaming, brand new car at the dealership more sexy than what you've already got in the garage? That dang Kiper got me dreaming.
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Old 01-18-2005   #71
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the bears wont take a rb before a wr. edwards or mike willams to chicago
Let's not forget these are the same Bears who were stupid enough to trade Marty Booker instead of Anthony Thomas/Thomas Jones to Miami.
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Old 01-18-2005   #72
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Gaffney should be our 3rd WR, not our 2nd. He may be able to catch the balls throw to him but doesn't get the separation or speed to outclass defenders. He is not another go to guy. If you are satisfied with Gaffney as your #2 when Johnson is doubled and we check down to Davis, feel free to enjoy another sub .500 season. This team needs playmakers.
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Old 01-18-2005   #73
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Default WR needs playmaker

This is a great pick! WR should be our #1 concern. Our defense has been solid. The main problem is not putting the ball in the end zone. I know defense wins championships, but we need to give the defense some rest. Jabar Gaffney is a very good receiver but he is a slot receiver (Just like Brandon Stokley of the Colts). We need to be able to spread the ball out and keep Andre Johnson from getting doubled.
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Old 01-18-2005   #74
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Originally Posted by Skrobes66
Our defense has been solid...
They had that great stretch at the end but thats when they played the Bears, Jags, and Browns. None of those are going to be confused as offensive juggernaughts. Lee Suggs ran all over them, the Jags would of had a bunch of rushing yards if it werent for a couple of holding calls and us going up so quickly, and Thomas Jones started out great by the offense put us up so the Bears abonded the run game in the 2nd half. Our run defense stinks and we need some fresh, young bodies down there. Marcus Spears or Shaun Cody would be nice and DL is more of a need then WR.

If Gaff was targeted as much as Ashley Lelie (around 100 times), Gaff would have over 900 yards receiving (Lucky did that stat somewhere). The problem is Carr always checks down to Davis, sometimes too quickly, and takes away oppurtunities from Gaff. Davis was targeted (85 times) more then Gaff (65ish times) so a 2nd WR is not a problem, Gaff is that guy.
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Old 01-18-2005   #75
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Yet the Colts had 3 recievers with over 1000 yards. Unfair comparison I know, but still. If we brought Mike Williams in here, the DC would go crazy. I mean who do you cover more? AJ or MW? And with those two guys on the feild only opens the passing game up more to other players like Gaffney and Davis out of the backfeild. Heck even Miller could catch him a couple.

I liked some of Kipers draft, most of it I thought was crazy. If Alex Barron is avalible at us at #13, then its a now brainer how could we pass up a guy like that. I wouldn't be surpised if Chicago picks him up at #4, I mean who plays tackle for them anymore? And he won't get passed Tennesse thats for sure, they could cut both of their T's.

And what about Shwan Merriman going to the Cowboys to play OLB? I thought his guy was a DE who could play OLB in the 3-4. And no Washington won't grab a WR at #9, even if Gardner is gone they still have Taylor Jacobs and some other guys. They don't pass enough anyway to need both Edwards and Coles, not in that offense. Erammus James will be in Washington. And Shaun Cody before David Pollack??? Wow talk about draft day surprises.
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Old 01-18-2005   #76
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Yet the Colts had 3 recievers with over 1000 yards. Unfair comparison I know, but still. If we brought Mike Williams in here, the DC would go crazy. I mean who do you cover more? AJ or MW? And with those two guys on the feild only opens the passing game up more to other players like Gaffney and Davis out of the backfeild. Heck even Miller could catch him a couple.
And we would posess the same problem as the Colts: Who is going to stop the run. The Steelers, Falcons and Patriots have proven, once again, that to be successful you have to run the ball and stop the run...
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Old 01-18-2005   #77
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I know some of you are going to play forgetful, but i remember having knock down debates over Andre Johnson on 2002 for the same reason as this Mike williams projection, the OLine needs help more than WR. Too many of you guys mistake the draft as resolution, in order, of a team highest priority need. the draft especially at the top of the first round is about the acquisition of talent. IMO, there is not a DLman nor OLman available at 13 who are better talents at their position than williams is at WR. rolle at CB is probably the next best talent, and then following that there are a couple of De/OLB tweeners. When given a choice of clear talent over need i go talent. Over time you will be better off. Neither Andre johnson nor Dunta Robinson resolved the highest need for the Texans in 2002 or 2003 , but they are pro bowl and near pro bowl performers. I expect the Texans to take the best talent as they did in 2002 and 2003 and hope that the results are some what similiar.
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Old 01-18-2005   #78
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I felt D-Rob and AJ both were needs. In 2002, I thought WR was a more glaring need then OL because I knew that we had all those injuries the first year and were starting a bunch of rookies. That season, we cut our sacks in almost half if I remember correctly. In 2003, we needed defense and with an aging Aaron Glenn, drafting a CB would do us great and would also get rid of Matt Stevens at FS. Now, I have never agreed with a lot of you but I feel as much as the Texans say BPA, they will go with their need.

And I dont see Mike Williams fitting into this offense. Capers wants a pound the rock type offense with deep threats down the field to work off the play action. Gaff is probably a better deep threat then Williams. So if you are going to upgrade any position in the offense, it would probably be adding an explosive back to tag with Davis so the play action will work more. And I remember plenty of times when D-lineman would not bite on the play-action fake this year and put their head down and go after Carr...
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Old 01-18-2005   #79
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Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan
I know some of you are going to play forgetful, but i remember having knock down debates over Andre Johnson on 2002 for the same reason as this Mike williams projection, the OLine needs help more than WR. Too many of you guys mistake the draft as resolution, in order, of a team highest priority need. the draft especially at the top of the first round is about the acquisition of talent.
You know we are water processing into the wind on this don't you? Gotta keep up the good fight though.
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Old 01-18-2005   #80
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The Colt's were the best at play action this season. Wher are they at? Home. What we need is to develop a short passing style and take shots downfield on One on one situations. Need proof ? Of the 4 teams left in the playoffs, 3 of them use a short passing game Atlanta, Philly, and NE. Williams would work . He big , physical pressance makes him an easy target off the ball.
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