Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > Football Talk > College Football & the 2014 NFL Draft
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


College Football & the 2014 NFL Draft The future stars of the NFL

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-20-2009   #1
nunusguy
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,991
Rep Power: 184 nunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default 1560s LZ & John Harris question the value of "Draft Position" ?

1 Alex Smith QB Utah San Francisco 49ers
2 Ronnie Brown RB Auburn Miami Dolphins
3 Braylon Edwards WR Michigan Cleveland Browns
4 Cedric Benson RB Texas Chicago Bears
5 Cadillac Williams RB Auburn Tampa Bay Buccaneers
6 Pacman Jones CB West Virginia Tennessee Titans
7 Troy Williamson WR South Carolina Minnesota Vikings
8 Antrel Rolle DB Miami (Fla.) Arizona Cardinals
9 Carlos Rogers DB Auburn Washington Redskins
10 Mike Williams WR USC Detroit Lions
11 DeMarcus Ware OLB Troy State Dallas Cowboys
12 Shawne Merriman OLB Maryland San Diego Chargers
13 Jammal Brown T Oklahoma New Orleans Saints
14 Thomas Davis DB Georgia Carolina Panthers
15 Derrick Johnson OLB Texas Kansas City Chiefs
16 Travis Johnson DT Florida State Houston Texans
17 David Pollack LB Georgia Cincinnati Bengals
18 Erasmus James DE Wisconsin Minnesota Vikings
19 Alex Barron T Florida State St. Louis Rams
20 Marcus Spears DE Louisiana State Dallas Cowboys
21 Matt Jones WR Arkansas Jacksonville Jaguars
22 Mark Clayton WR Oklahoma Baltimore Ravens
23 Fabian Washington CB Nebraska Oakland Raiders
24 Aaron Rodgers QB California Green Bay Packers
25 Jason Campbell QB Auburn Washington Redskins
26 Chris Spencer C Mississippi Seattle Seahawks
27 Roddy White WR Alabama-Birmingham Atlanta Falcons
28 Luis Castillo DE Northwestern San Diego Chargers
29 Marlin Jackson DB Michigan Indianapolis Colts
30 Heath Miller TE Virginia Pittsburgh Steelers
31 Mike Patterson DT USC Philadelphia Eagles
32 Logan Mankins G Fresno State New England Patriots
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/ful...5&round=round1
**********************************
They compared the first 7 picks in the first round vs the last 7 picks of that
round in the 2005 Draft and came to the conclusion (obviously) that the last 7 were better choices. Interesting. Not to mention the difference in cap resources saved.
If you really like Draft talk you need to check these guys out on 1560 on Thursdays at 5:00 - 6:30 PM for their Draft-Show.
nunusguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009   #2
bah007
Hall of Fame
 
bah007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Woodlands, TX
Posts: 8,285
Rep Power: 56209 bah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: 1560s LZ & John Harris question the value of "Draft Position" ?

Perhaps the last seven turned out to be better players because they were drafted by better teams and received better coaching?
bah007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009   #3
Polo
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1560s LZ & John Harris question the value of "Draft Position" ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Perhaps the last seven turned out to be better players because they were drafted by better teams and received better coaching?
How could you look at the players up there and the teams that picked them come to that conclusion ?
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009   #4
Blake
MMQB
 
Blake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Spring
Section: 551
Posts: 10,648
Rep Power: 58383 Blake is a quality contributor and well respectedBlake is a quality contributor and well respectedBlake is a quality contributor and well respectedBlake is a quality contributor and well respectedBlake is a quality contributor and well respectedBlake is a quality contributor and well respectedBlake is a quality contributor and well respectedBlake is a quality contributor and well respectedBlake is a quality contributor and well respectedBlake is a quality contributor and well respectedBlake is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: 1560s LZ & John Harris question the value of "Draft Position" ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Perhaps the last seven turned out to be better players because they were drafted by better teams and received better coaching?
Great point. Who knows how David Carr would have turned out, had he gone to the Steelers near the bottom of round 1 and gave him better coaching, and sat him on the bench for a year.
Blake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009   #5
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
 
TheRealJoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Conroe
Age: 26
Posts: 3,600
Rep Power: 4378 TheRealJoker is a quality contributor and well respectedTheRealJoker is a quality contributor and well respectedTheRealJoker is a quality contributor and well respectedTheRealJoker is a quality contributor and well respectedTheRealJoker is a quality contributor and well respectedTheRealJoker is a quality contributor and well respectedTheRealJoker is a quality contributor and well respectedTheRealJoker is a quality contributor and well respectedTheRealJoker is a quality contributor and well respectedTheRealJoker is a quality contributor and well respectedTheRealJoker is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to TheRealJoker
Default Re: 1560s LZ & John Harris question the value of "Draft Position" ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Perhaps the last seven turned out to be better players because they were drafted by better teams and received better coaching?
Valid point. A player is only as good as the scheme he is put in. Now granted, some players are special and would do well in just about any scheme, but to be HOF caliber they need to be in a scheme that maximizes their potential.

Imagine Peyton Manning or Tom Brady in a run heavy offense like the Titans employ. Same player, a lot of people would think they're very good too. But they wouldn't put up the gaudy numbers we've become accustomed to from them.
__________________
What did the city of Houston do to anger the football gods?
TheRealJoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009   #6
Goldensilence
Is this Sparta?
 
Goldensilence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Out of the desert finally...
Age: 32
Posts: 5,102
Rep Power: 9088 Goldensilence is a quality contributor and well respectedGoldensilence is a quality contributor and well respectedGoldensilence is a quality contributor and well respectedGoldensilence is a quality contributor and well respectedGoldensilence is a quality contributor and well respectedGoldensilence is a quality contributor and well respectedGoldensilence is a quality contributor and well respectedGoldensilence is a quality contributor and well respectedGoldensilence is a quality contributor and well respectedGoldensilence is a quality contributor and well respectedGoldensilence is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: 1560s LZ & John Harris question the value of "Draft Position" ?

This is exactly why there should be a salary cap of some sort on rookie contracts. I think the NBA actually does it right.

This way the pressure is eased on the the team for justifying the resources spent on a top pick or havingthem play too early to justify the resources spent on said player.

I would think the rookies would benefit from less intense scrutiny and could ease themselves into the pace of the NFL. There is a reason why more intelligent picks are made at the bottom seven of the draft and both of those play a big part in it.
Goldensilence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009   #7
Polo
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1560s LZ & John Harris question the value of "Draft Position" ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
Great point. Who knows how David Carr would have turned out, had he gone to the Steelers near the bottom of round 1 and gave him better coaching, and sat him on the bench for a year.
Probably a few notches above complete suckage instead of right on the line.
  Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 03-20-2009   #8
Polo
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1560s LZ & John Harris question the value of "Draft Position" ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealJoker View Post
Imagine Peyton Manning or Tom Brady in a run heavy offense like the Titans employ. Same player, a lot of people would think they're very good too. But they wouldn't put up the gaudy numbers we've become accustomed to from them.

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning probably dictate that their offense pass it so much. Tom Brady in the Titans offense would pass it more than Kerry Collins.

If you have a star player, use him.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009   #9
Vinny
shiny happy fan
 
Vinny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 50
Posts: 21,525
Rep Power: 109114 Vinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: 1560s LZ & John Harris question the value of "Draft Position" ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
Great point. Who knows how David Carr would have turned out, had he gone to the Steelers near the bottom of round 1 and gave him better coaching, and sat him on the bench for a year.
He would have been the same player he was here...just a bad Steeler QB instead of a Texan.
__________________
http://twitter.com/#!/TexansTalk


"A nation of sheep begets a government of wolves" - Edward R. Murrow
Vinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009   #10
nunusguy
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,991
Rep Power: 184 nunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: 1560s LZ & John Harris question the value of "Draft Position" ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Perhaps the last seven turned out to be better players because they were drafted by better teams and received better coaching?
I gotta get in line with some of the other posters and agree bah007. There definitely might be a correlation between the success of the players picked and the teams who picked 'em.
nunusguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009   #11
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
 
Ole Miss Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 8,673
Rep Power: 19125 Ole Miss Texan is a quality contributor and well respectedOle Miss Texan is a quality contributor and well respectedOle Miss Texan is a quality contributor and well respectedOle Miss Texan is a quality contributor and well respectedOle Miss Texan is a quality contributor and well respectedOle Miss Texan is a quality contributor and well respectedOle Miss Texan is a quality contributor and well respectedOle Miss Texan is a quality contributor and well respectedOle Miss Texan is a quality contributor and well respectedOle Miss Texan is a quality contributor and well respectedOle Miss Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: 1560s LZ & John Harris question the value of "Draft Position" ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Perhaps the last seven turned out to be better players because they were drafted by better teams and received better coaching?
"Must spread rep" I didn't have to go far to find a post of exactly what I would have written.

Here's a novel idea: Why don't teams just decide to make the playoffs so they can pick in the bottom of the 1st round and select better players. Why do they constantly want to suck, have marginal talent around their team and then throw a rookie in there and expect him to turn the team around?
__________________
#99 JJ Watt - Dream Big Work Hard
Ole Miss Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009   #12
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
 
TheRealJoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Conroe
Age: 26
Posts: 3,600
Rep Power: 4378 TheRealJoker is a quality contributor and well respectedTheRealJoker is a quality contributor and well respectedTheRealJoker is a quality contributor and well respectedTheRealJoker is a quality contributor and well respectedTheRealJoker is a quality contributor and well respectedTheRealJoker is a quality contributor and well respectedTheRealJoker is a quality contributor and well respectedTheRealJoker is a quality contributor and well respectedTheRealJoker is a quality contributor and well respectedTheRealJoker is a quality contributor and well respectedTheRealJoker is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to TheRealJoker
Default Re: 1560s LZ & John Harris question the value of "Draft Position" ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo View Post
Tom Brady and Peyton Manning probably dictate that their offense pass it so much. Tom Brady in the Titans offense would pass it more than Kerry Collins.

If you have a star player, use him.
Indeed, they would still be very good but not "best of all time" caliber like we think of them now. Sure, Fisher would pass more, but how much more? His ideological view is that the offense needs to control the ball and limit turnovers, not throw it 30+ times a game and try to win shootouts.

Fisherball is still Fisherball with or without Brady/Manning.
__________________
What did the city of Houston do to anger the football gods?
TheRealJoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009   #13
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
 
Second Honeymoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
Posts: 5,330
Rep Power: 3658 Second Honeymoon is a quality contributor and well respectedSecond Honeymoon is a quality contributor and well respectedSecond Honeymoon is a quality contributor and well respectedSecond Honeymoon is a quality contributor and well respectedSecond Honeymoon is a quality contributor and well respectedSecond Honeymoon is a quality contributor and well respectedSecond Honeymoon is a quality contributor and well respectedSecond Honeymoon is a quality contributor and well respectedSecond Honeymoon is a quality contributor and well respectedSecond Honeymoon is a quality contributor and well respectedSecond Honeymoon is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via ICQ to Second Honeymoon Send a message via Yahoo to Second Honeymoon
Default Re: 1560s LZ & John Harris question the value of "Draft Position" ?

If you were to look at other drafts, you won't find the same sort of trends that 2005 showed. I do agree that being drafted later in the draft, is always helpful to a player. As long as they are still given an opportunity to get on the field, a player drafted later in the 1st has less pressure and a better team to fit into. Then when you add the fact that the best teams have the best coaching staffs, you can see this helping a late round draftee further.

Either way, if your drafted in the 1st Round, your one of the top32 players coming out of college so your a pretty damn good football player. In today's league of rookies coming in and getting playing time, some of these young guys are taking the bull by the horns and making themselves their team's starters from Day One.
__________________
@DougVanHorne on Twitter (CardinalDoug)
Second Honeymoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009   #14
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
 
mexican_texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Spring, TX
Age: 23
Posts: 14,188
Rep Power: 1698 mexican_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedmexican_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedmexican_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedmexican_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedmexican_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedmexican_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedmexican_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedmexican_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedmexican_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedmexican_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedmexican_texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: 1560s LZ & John Harris question the value of "Draft Position" ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
Great point. Who knows how David Carr would have turned out, had he gone to the Steelers near the bottom of round 1 and gave him better coaching, and sat him on the bench for a year.
He still would've been a bust. At a position where elite guys never take a week off, Carr took months off before he threw a ball in the offseason. He wasn't and probably still doesn't have the desire to put in extra work into becoming a starting QB.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
in the hood, they calls it pimpin'.
mexican_texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009   #15
DiehardChris
You betcha!
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Back in Houston
Posts: 3,808
Rep Power: 1067 DiehardChris is a quality contributor and well respectedDiehardChris is a quality contributor and well respectedDiehardChris is a quality contributor and well respectedDiehardChris is a quality contributor and well respectedDiehardChris is a quality contributor and well respectedDiehardChris is a quality contributor and well respectedDiehardChris is a quality contributor and well respectedDiehardChris is a quality contributor and well respectedDiehardChris is a quality contributor and well respectedDiehardChris is a quality contributor and well respectedDiehardChris is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: 1560s LZ & John Harris question the value of "Draft Position" ?

David Carr publicly said he was happy to be a backup quarterback. To me, that's the absolute END of that conversation. The physical part of the game was never his problem.
__________________

www.HoustonDiehards.com
DiehardChris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009   #16
steelbtexan
Hall of Fame
 
steelbtexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Age: 51
Posts: 11,212
Rep Power: 56437 steelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: 1560s LZ & John Harris question the value of "Draft Position" ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mexican_texan View Post
He still would've been a bust. At a position where elite guys never take a week off, Carr took months off before he threw a ball in the offseason. He wasn't and probably still doesn't have the desire to put in extra work into becoming a starting QB.
Spot On
steelbtexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009   #17
steelbtexan
Hall of Fame
 
steelbtexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Age: 51
Posts: 11,212
Rep Power: 56437 steelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respectedsteelbtexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: 1560s LZ & John Harris question the value of "Draft Position" ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiehardChris View Post
David Carr publicly said he was happy to be a backup quarterback. To me, that's the absolute END of that conversation. The physical part of the game was never his problem.
This is Carr

Stole McNairs money

Stealing Mara's money

Making millions with no work ethic

Great job if you can get it


Does he still have the teased hair & white gloves? That was classic.

Kubes cut him because of his inability to read defenses. This tells me he's either lazy (not putting in the time to learn) or dumb.
steelbtexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009   #18
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
 
Second Honeymoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
Posts: 5,330
Rep Power: 3658 Second Honeymoon is a quality contributor and well respectedSecond Honeymoon is a quality contributor and well respectedSecond Honeymoon is a quality contributor and well respectedSecond Honeymoon is a quality contributor and well respectedSecond Honeymoon is a quality contributor and well respectedSecond Honeymoon is a quality contributor and well respectedSecond Honeymoon is a quality contributor and well respectedSecond Honeymoon is a quality contributor and well respectedSecond Honeymoon is a quality contributor and well respectedSecond Honeymoon is a quality contributor and well respectedSecond Honeymoon is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via ICQ to Second Honeymoon Send a message via Yahoo to Second Honeymoon
Default Re: 1560s LZ & John Harris question the value of "Draft Position" ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Kubes cut him because of his inability to read defenses. This tells me he's either lazy (not putting in the time to learn) or dumb.
or both
__________________
@DougVanHorne on Twitter (CardinalDoug)
Second Honeymoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009   #19
bah007
Hall of Fame
 
bah007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Woodlands, TX
Posts: 8,285
Rep Power: 56209 bah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respectedbah007 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: 1560s LZ & John Harris question the value of "Draft Position" ?

Carr always had all the physical tools. That was never in doubt. That was why he went #1 overall.

He just never developed anything beyond that.
bah007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2009   #20
TexansFanatic
Extremist
 
TexansFanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,178
Rep Power: 7237 TexansFanatic is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansFanatic is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansFanatic is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansFanatic is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansFanatic is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansFanatic is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansFanatic is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansFanatic is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansFanatic is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansFanatic is a quality contributor and well respectedTexansFanatic is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: 1560s LZ & John Harris question the value of "Draft Position" ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiehardChris View Post
David Carr publicly said he was happy to be a backup quarterback. To me, that's the absolute END of that conversation. The physical part of the game was never his problem.
That's the thing about the crazy money these guys make.

In the old days when pro football players had jobs in the offseason to make ends meet, you knew they were playing because they sincerely loved the game.

These days, a guy might not give a damn about football but if he's got special football talent he's going to play because he won't see that kind of money anywhere short of winning the lottery. The result is a lot of guys treating football like a 9 to 5 gig. Guys like Mr. Carr.
TexansFanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > Football Talk > College Football & the 2014 NFL Draft
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger