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Old 01-25-2005   #101
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Steelers still have another RB that is along the lines of both Staley and Bettis. Haynes is very capable of backup up and eventually starting, no need to get another RB when one of your star recievers and LB might be bolting.
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Old 01-25-2005   #102
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Go ahead. Im ready for the flood of criticism that I should have taken a OT.
A CB, more like it. No OT is worth a top 10 pick, even. I hope we either trade down, or get Rolle. I hope we trade down, most of all.

This draft is deep for linemen. 2nd and 3rd round should be addressed this year.
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Old 01-25-2005   #103
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Is there a Bills owner?
Yeah I'm the Bills owner at the moment.
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Old 01-26-2005   #104
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Originally Posted by dbo78912
A CB, more like it. No OT is worth a top 10 pick, even. I hope we either trade down, or get Rolle. I hope we trade down, most of all.

This draft is deep for linemen. 2nd and 3rd round should be addressed this year.

Actually your pass defense was ranked 5th in allowed TD's, allowed passing yards per game, and total yards allowed for the season. Its all on NFL.com stats.

You need turnovers, and pressure.

DJ has his own swat/strip move he uses to get the ball. He will get turnovers.

James gives you a fast strong outside rush. Lang looks nice, but Brown either needs to be traded, and given a fresh start, or put as a backup.


Cleveland ranks 32nd! in rushing yards against, with 144.6 So I dont think a CB will help that.

James and DJ will.

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Old 01-26-2005   #105
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I figured I'd just bring my pick explanation and first day draft strategy over to the discussion thread. It's my perception that this is not a real deep draft and the players outside of the top 50 are as weak as I have seen them in years. I wanted to swap my 2 three round picks for 2 second rounders, and after several moves I was able to do this. I have the 37th overall and the 47th overall from the second round and retained the 73rd overall choice in the 3rd round. I moved down and passed some players but still picked up a quality starter in an area of clear weakness. We are no longer going to have a mismatch when facing large interior defenders over the A-gap with this move.

6' 5" 330lb Rimington award winning David Baas, Center/Guard, Michigan, is the pick for the Texans. I project him to play Center where he has had starting experience at Michigan before moving to Guard. Steve McKinney's days are numbered. I wanted a defender (namely defensive lineman) here and almost took one. I just do not feel good about the Defensive Tackle value in the first round and Baas will be a ten year starter here, so that pushed me to take one of the top two interior linemen in this draft class. I picked Baas over Brown due to attitude, smarts, desire, and his fundamentally sound blocking techniques. Brown has a few question marks about his desire and his professionalism, or I would have selected him. Baas plays with a chip on his shoulder, and injects some attitude into our offense.

I wanted to see what I could do with 3 top-50 picks (after my trades), and Center was one of my priorities. After doing as much research as I could, I figured there was no sense in picking up a Center in the 3rd round or so that is no better than the one we have currently (line quality drops off fast in this draft). Bass has great size (6'-5" 330), can play both Guard and Center, and plays with a mean streak. One of the things I think we need is some fire and attitude in our offense. Baas gives us plenty of both and Michigan has produced plenty of top caliber linemen over the years. McKinney will be paid like a top-10 Center soon and will be able to fight Zach Weigert for the Right Guard position with this move. There are probably a few football players on the board that may have more name value or are sexier picks but this resolves one of our biggest interior needs. This move makes Dom Davis a more productive back, gives David Carr more line stability and hopefully an actual pocket to step into in order to locate Andre Johnson and Company.

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Old 01-26-2005   #106
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Sounds like a good, well reasoned pick Vinny. I like the "Tude" part. Something we need on both sides of the ball.
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Old 01-26-2005   #107
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Love the Baas pick and Carr and Davis should/would love it too. Some other review tid bits:

NFLDraftBlitz
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Has a mean streak and shows some nastiness on the football field. He flashes great strength and quickness on the football field, and is a fundamentally sound football player. He is also very aggressive and will play every down like itís his last.
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Quick...Very competitive and can be downright nasty at times...Strong...Very smart and aware on the field of play...Tireless worker who always gives 100%...Displays great technique. Needs to continue getting bigger and adding bulk with his size being the biggest question mark.
323 lbs and needs to add bulk? He certainly doesn't look like a tubby 323 lbs. Some attitude from Wade and Baas would be nice. Sounds like a Casserly/Capers kind of pick with the tireless worker giving it all on every play stuff.
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Old 01-26-2005   #108
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of course we expect nothing but sheer brilliance from Vinny & look to his leadership & guidence all matters Texans. that being said I agree with addressing the Texans need on the offensive line with the BPA in the draft. looks to me as if the premier guards are slipping late 1st early 2nd, was this too early for Baas? that would be my only question, you've moved brilliantly with adding 2nd round picks maybe you could use them to move up even a little higher in the 2nd if you are specificly targeting Baas. If the Texans traded down this far and Anttaj Hawthorne was still available one might believe the Texans address the DT need first & trade up if needed to address the OL/C.

In another related topic I understand the issues surrounding Elton Brown, just from my own viewership of seeing both play Brown was by far the most dominant he is however more of a pulling guard, a classic road grader with surprising/scarry speed & nasty streak. But to Baas defense he is excellent controlling the pocket & creating space something we can agree on that David Carr sorely needs. In a perfect world I'd like to have both of them, but for now I'd settle for just one, thanks for all your input to this forum Vinny.
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Old 01-26-2005   #109
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Originally Posted by beerlover
... was this too early for Baas? ...
Many projections have Baas going lower, BUT remember, he is 1 of 1. It's not like a store where you can always grap a Baas off the self. He is 1 of 1 (at least in Vinny's view) and there are 32 teams 'bidding' for him. That tends to drive the price up.

I think the best example of this was Randle El. All predictions showed him going 3rd round or later, but the Steelers took him at the end of the 2nd round. They had a lot of pieces covered on their team and correctly (IMO) recognized that he was a unique player. 1 of 1.

You could argue that the Texans did the same trading up for Babin and down for Joppru (who they fell in love with during their unique opportunity at the Senior Bowl).

I applaud the pick. Identify guys that fit the character mold and have the talent to contribute. Then pay what you have to pay and don't think twice. With 31 other teams taking gambles, some other good players will go to someother teams. Get over it.
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Old 01-26-2005   #110
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I like the Baas pick. It seems as if our mock draft is centering around the more talked about positions like RB, WR, QB, LB, CB, etc. Considering that Baas might have been available in the second, but I'm sure he'd be off the board quickly in the second with several teams looking toward the big uglies once they've got their 'stars' in place. So trading down, and taking Baas late in the first isn't a bad strategy. Given Vinny's extra picks in the 2nd he has a decent shot at still getting a good DT like Hawthorne or perhaps even another quality OG for depth like Brown.
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Old 01-26-2005   #111
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true that- I love the pick, don't misunderstand me, however none of the rest of the 1st round teams need a Center. With the 37th pick Baas could still be selected, meanwhile the Texans aquire the #1 DT in Hawthorne
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Old 01-26-2005   #112
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I can't speak for Vinny, but when my selection came up I knew that DT was a definite need for the Bengals. The problem was that none of the top DT seemed like they were worth taking that high. Hawthorne is ranked as the #1 DT on many draft sites, but he's not shown well in Senior Bowl practices. Travis Johnson is a very talented DT, but he's recently come on strong in his senior year and underachieved prior to his last season. I chose Marcus Spears because he had the added versatility to play DE or DT, and he's been compared to Reggie White. He provides a pass rush, and he's excellent against the run. Two things the Bengals are in need of from their DLinemen. 17 might have been high to take Spears, but I didn't want to risk trading down and ending up with lesser quality talent. Hawthorne doesn't give the same pass rush pressence, but he's more of a run stuffer. I believe that Hawthorne will be available later in the draft, but even if he isn't Castillo or Johnson likely will, and I don't see a big drop off in level of talent in those three guys. That's just my perception though. Not sure what Vinny's was.
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Old 01-26-2005   #113
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Quote:
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true that- I love the pick, don't misunderstand me, however none of the rest of the 1st round teams need a Center. With the 37th pick Baas could still be selected, meanwhile the Texans aquire the #1 DT in Hawthorne
Baas is also a Guard...and a 330 pound elite Guard at that. He rolls off the board late first early second. If I don't take Brown or Baas, I don't take any interior linemen because I think Pitts, McKinney and Weigert are all better than the other interior guys coming out. What is the sense in taking another player later if he is no better than the guy you want to replace? With 32 teams two elite inside players, and a major drop off in talent, I am taking a starter in a position of need.
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Old 01-26-2005   #114
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Its tough to figure out who wants Baas and who doesnt, but my gut says that you could have traded down until someone picked up Brown, as I think many thought he was the best G.

But overall I would be happy with a player who can replace a C or a G. Ive seen this guy play many a game, and he gets the job done. The best wolverine since Steve Hutchinson.
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Old 01-26-2005   #115
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Originally Posted by DC_ROCK
Its tough to figure out who wants Baas and who doesnt, but my gut says that you could have traded down until someone picked up Brown, as I think many thought he was the best G.

But overall I would be happy with a player who can replace a C or a G. Ive seen this guy play many a game, and he gets the job done. The best wolverine since Hutchinson.
I traded down twice, and I have a pick coming up at 37. I didn't need to fall further back. Someone with line problems can trade up at any time and take the guy off the board. Like Mistril stated...there is not a shelf full of guys I consider an upgrade at a position I feel is in need of change. I counted enough guys I like so I get someone I want at 37. Win - win for me.

Besides, who says that Brown would be taken first? I seemed to take him over Brown myself. Fwiw, I think that this entire mock will change entirely when we do our second run. I think this is something that helps us get familiar with the players moreso than emulate the actual draft. Don't be afraid to blow your pick!! Nobody here is going to get fired.
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Old 01-26-2005   #116
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Originally Posted by Vinny
I traded down twice, and I have a pick coming up at 37. I didn't need to fall further back. Someone with line problems can trade up at any time and take the guy off the board. Like Mistril stated...there is not a shelf full of guys I consider an upgrade at a position I feel is in need of change. I counted enough guys I like so I get someone I want at 37. Win - win for me.

Besides, who says that Brown would be taken first? I seemed to take him over Brown myself.
Good pick and draft strategy Vinny. If our draft worked out this well I'd be real happy.
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Old 01-26-2005   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
Please try to be ready for your pick. If 24 hours pass then the next team is automatically on the clock. Your pick will be made for you if you miss your selection.
Sorry about not being ready for the pick. Hope you guys didn't wait too long. I was moving all of last week and had a few things come up.
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Old 01-26-2005   #118
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Sorry about not being ready for the pick. Hope you guys didn't wait too long. I was moving all of last week and had a few things come up.
Don't worry about it, I should of given you a warning that we were starting soon...
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Old 01-26-2005   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC_ROCK
Actually your pass defense was ranked 5th in allowed TD's, allowed passing yards per game, and total yards allowed for the season. Its all on NFL.com stats.

You need turnovers, and pressure.

DJ has his own swat/strip move he uses to get the ball. He will get turnovers.

James gives you a fast strong outside rush. Lang looks nice, but Brown either needs to be traded, and given a fresh start, or put as a backup.


Cleveland ranks 32nd! in rushing yards against, with 144.6 So I dont think a CB will help that.

James and DJ will.
This is true, but we were hit hard by injuries last year... linebacker was one of the places hit the hardest. Andra Davis missed a few games, and he's our best linebacker. Boyer and Taylor were out for the season, who are some of our "veterans" at the position. Sean Jones was out, who could help tremendously against the run. We lacked Courtney Brown, but not that he makes a difference... Ekuban did quite well in his absense.

In a division full of young, up-and-coming QBs such as Palmer, Boller, and, of course, Roethlisberger, in a few years a great secondary is needed. This is why it would make sense to get a good CB... gotta think about our current personnel and who we have returning next year.
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Old 01-26-2005   #120
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Don't worry about it Wags. We got your back, and understand that everyone has a real life and can't always get to the board. We have excellent help with Fiddy and Beerlover in the background also. No probleemo.

Interesting pick by the Jets. I kinda like it with Dinger coming aboard to run their offense. They probably lose Becht and Smith should do well teamed with Baker for a nice combo package on two TE sets. I think Smith may be a player.
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