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Old 03-09-2009   #1
dalemurphy
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Default Why is everyone calling for a LB?

I'm in general agreement with the boards and media that this team needs RB depth and help at safety. However, I don't get this almost universally held belief that it needs LB help- probably high in the draft.

I believe we have 6 LBs that belong on a winning team's 53 man roster:
DRyans- good to very good MLB
Bentley- primary backup LB- good enough to be primary backup on championship caliber team
Adibi- When he played, he looked very good. Health is a concern but I'd hardly call him Dan Morgan at this point. Has the potential to be an elite WLB.
Diles- The light went on for him in week 4. I think he's clearly a starting caliber OLB and the team expects him healthy for minicamp.
Chaun Thompson- Missing in action due to training camp injury. However, he doesn't have a history of injury problems and has the size and athleticism to rush the passer or play a traditional SLB. He's pretty young and had success as a player on a bad Cleveland team.
Coley- Excellent special teams player and a very sure tackler. He sure looked good in the preseason.

Though I agree that uncertainty exists regarding Adibi and Diles, I think the depth is very good as is the versatility and potential of the group. How can this be a greater need than our interior OLine? Myers and Briesel have low ceilings, Pitts will be a free agent, and White doesn't belong on a championship caliber team. Beyond that, Studdard is the primary backup and he's not athletic enought to caddy for Vince YOung, much less protect Matt Schuab. Am I the only person who saw the Cowboy preseason game last year when he imitated an overturned turtle for three quarters?

Someone explain to me why LB is such a major need for this team!- In other words, why is Adibi and Diles going to fail and why isn't Bentley, Coley, and Thompson quality depth?
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Old 03-09-2009   #2
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Default Re: Why is everyone calling for a LB?

Most are saying LB because with the projections on where players are going to be drafted who else would be worthy of taking at 15, since you can't predict trades?
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Old 03-09-2009   #3
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Default Re: Why is everyone calling for a LB?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
I'm in general agreement with the boards and media that this team needs RB depth and help at safety. However, I don't get this almost universally held belief that it needs LB help- probably high in the draft.

I believe we have 6 LBs that belong on a winning team's 53 man roster:
DRyans- good to very good MLB
Bentley- primary backup LB- good enough to be primary backup on championship caliber team
Adibi- When he played, he looked very good. Health is a concern but I'd hardly call him Dan Morgan at this point. Has the potential to be an elite WLB.
Diles- The light went on for him in week 4. I think he's clearly a starting caliber OLB and the team expects him healthy for minicamp.
Chaun Thompson- Missing in action due to training camp injury. However, he doesn't have a history of injury problems and has the size and athleticism to rush the passer or play a traditional SLB. He's pretty young and had success as a player on a bad Cleveland team.
Coley- Excellent special teams player and a very sure tackler. He sure looked good in the preseason.

Though I agree that uncertainty exists regarding Adibi and Diles, I think the depth is very good as is the versatility and potential of the group. How can this be a greater need than our interior OLine? Myers and Briesel have low ceilings, Pitts will be a free agent, and White doesn't belong on a championship caliber team. Beyond that, Studdard is the primary backup and he's not athletic enought to caddy for Vince YOung, much less protect Matt Schuab. Am I the only person who saw the Cowboy preseason game last year when he imitated an overturned turtle for three quarters?

Someone explain to me why LB is such a major need for this team!- In other words, why is Adibi and Diles going to fail and why isn't Bentley, Coley, and Thompson quality depth?
I happen to agree with you, but in my just posted mock I do select a OLB Marcus Freeman in the third round who should win a back up role. I do not know anything about Coley and little about Thompson.
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Old 03-09-2009   #4
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Default Re: Why is everyone calling for a LB?

I'm not gonna try to explain why LB is our primary need at this point in time when I don't think it is, I still think a true prime-time safety is our biggest need but without one in the draft I don't see it being fulfilled so it is shelved for now.

After safety, I agree with you on your OL assessment. You can never have too many solid linemen, and a Max Unger type who can play throughout the line is a guy I'm really targeting in this draft, but I just don't see it happening for us unless we have a trade situation in which we pick up a late 1st rounder or early 2nd. In the 4th or 5th I would also like to pick up another interior lineman, Studdard just can't cut it.
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Old 03-09-2009   #5
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Default Re: Why is everyone calling for a LB?

I agree with you...

I'm starting to feel the LB pick less and less..


I don't know about O-line, but I am not o.k with our CB or SS situation going forward and trying to build a reputable defense...

Our most reliable corner is Dunta, and who's to say how he's progressed coming back from the leg injury + he never was a super excellent cover guy...After that we have Reeves who I can easily see getting beat/run over...Bennet...not reliable...Molden...Unknown...Even if a rookie doesn't end up a starter it'd be nice to get a highly rated player here to make the position more competitive...It'd be even better if they could win a starting role and add more playmaking to our secondary.

Also getting a highly rated SS would be nice too....But as of right now I can't imagine the Texans not placing CB as a priority...

Right now I'm hoping that Jenkins falls to us, or we trade down and pick up Smith.
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Old 03-09-2009   #6
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Default Re: Why is everyone calling for a LB?

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Originally Posted by pbat488 View Post
I'm not gonna try to explain why LB is our primary need at this point in time when I don't think it is, I still think a true prime-time safety is our biggest need but without one in the draft I don't see it being fulfilled so it is shelved for now.

After safety, I agree with you on your OL assessment. You can never have too many solid linemen, and a Max Unger type who can play throughout the line is a guy I'm really targeting in this draft, but I just don't see it happening for us unless we have a trade situation in which we pick up a late 1st rounder or early 2nd. In the 4th or 5th I would also like to pick up another interior lineman, Studdard just can't cut it.
If we traded down 10 spots and took Unger in the first, I'd be freakin' ecstatic!! Then we'd have a second, two 3rds, two 4ths, and two 5ths to grab RBs, Safeties, a speed rusher, and whatever else we are in the mood for. That would be ideal!!
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Old 03-09-2009   #7
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Default Re: Why is everyone calling for a LB?

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Originally Posted by Specnatz View Post
Most are saying LB because with the projections on where players are going to be drafted who else would be worthy of taking at 15, since you can't predict trades?
The only LB (in the 4-3 scheme atleast) who's clearly worth the 15th pick is Curry, and of course he goes much higher.
After that its a question of whether Clay Matthews passes Brian Cushing (as the latter falls all the way out of the teens) and makes it all the way to a worthy pick at 15 ?
If Matthews can't become a mid-teen value by Draft Day and we remain there, we might end up taking just about any position including CB, OLT,
or WR ?
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Old 03-09-2009   #8
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Default Re: Why is everyone calling for a LB?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
I'm in general agreement with the boards and media that this team needs RB depth and help at safety. However, I don't get this almost universally held belief that it needs LB help- probably high in the draft.

I believe we have 6 LBs that belong on a winning team's 53 man roster:
DRyans- good to very good MLB
Bentley- primary backup LB- good enough to be primary backup on championship caliber team
Adibi- When he played, he looked very good. Health is a concern but I'd hardly call him Dan Morgan at this point. Has the potential to be an elite WLB.
Diles- The light went on for him in week 4. I think he's clearly a starting caliber OLB and the team expects him healthy for minicamp.
Chaun Thompson- Missing in action due to training camp injury. However, he doesn't have a history of injury problems and has the size and athleticism to rush the passer or play a traditional SLB. He's pretty young and had success as a player on a bad Cleveland team.
Coley- Excellent special teams player and a very sure tackler. He sure looked good in the preseason.

Though I agree that uncertainty exists regarding Adibi and Diles, I think the depth is very good as is the versatility and potential of the group. How can this be a greater need than our interior OLine? Myers and Briesel have low ceilings, Pitts will be a free agent, and White doesn't belong on a championship caliber team. Beyond that, Studdard is the primary backup and he's not athletic enought to caddy for Vince YOung, much less protect Matt Schuab. Am I the only person who saw the Cowboy preseason game last year when he imitated an overturned turtle for three quarters?

Someone explain to me why LB is such a major need for this team!- In other words, why is Adibi and Diles going to fail and why isn't Bentley, Coley, and Thompson quality depth?
Good post - I think it's a very valid observation.

I think many folks assume it's got to be defense, and look at LB as the deepest position at the point we're slated to pick.

I honestly think they'd like to get a DT, but also recognize Raji and Jerry are probably the only players at that position worth using a first round pick on.

The more I think about it, taking an RB or even a WR wouldn't absolutely shock me. I think they would much rather trade down (and I could even see them trading completely out of the first round if they got value), but since willing partners don't always materialize, I could see them going with a Maclin or a Moreno if things fall a certain way. They might not be thrilled with it (and I probably wouldn't be either), but if the value is that much better, I just don't think they'd settle for a lower rated player just because of the side of the ball he played on.
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Old 03-09-2009   #9
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Default Re: Why is everyone calling for a LB?

Other than D-Ryans, which LB has proven anything on the field? Nobody really

Adibi - Was basically hurt or sick since camp. He looked good once he hit the field, but failed to stay on it. Is he durable enough to play in the NFL?

Diles - Another LB that was decent, but failed to finish healthy. IMO, he's too slow. I think he could be quality depth, but not a starter.

Bentley - He is quality depth. No problems with Bentley at all.

Thompson - Until he can stay on the field, STer at best.

Coley - He impressed me playing 3rd and 4th stringers in the last pre-season game.

IMO, how can we not address LB? To me, the LB position was and has been one of the most inconsistant positions on D.

Here's a snippet of an Alan Burge article about the LB corps. I think the Texans roster is explained nicely in this article.

Quote:
Linebacker (6): Zach Diles, DeMeco Ryans, Xavier Adibi, Kevin Bentley, Kevis Coley, Chaun Thompson

This is the second of three glaring need areas for the Texans. Expect the Texans to draft at least one linebacker with one coming as early as the 15th pick overall (if they like Brian Cushing and he's there). The Texans took ten linebackers to camp last year so expect three or four new faces added to this group by summer.
http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Housto...roster-checkup
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Old 03-09-2009   #10
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Default Re: Why is everyone calling for a LB?

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
If we traded down 10 spots and took Unger in the first, I'd be freakin' ecstatic!! Then we'd have a second, two 3rds, two 4ths, and two 5ths to grab RBs, Safeties, a speed rusher, and whatever else we are in the mood for. That would be ideal!!
A trade situation somewhat like this has been bubbling inside my head and this just seemed like a good thread to post it in.. again. I posted it in another thread but I just think it would be an ideal situation for the Texans. Pretty much, it consists of us trading #15 and our 3rd rounder to the Lions for their 2nd rounder, #33, and their 2010 1st round pick. With the Lions such a work-in-progress, we can expect to have at least one pick within the top 10 next year (unless Schwartz is a miracle worker), and with that we can hopefully pick up either Eric Berry from Tennessee, or Taylor Mays from USC. We use #33 on Max Unger, and then Smith/Kubiak work their magic and pick up a couple of quality players in the later rounds.

Then in 2010, .

Last edited by pbat488; 03-09-2009 at 03:01 PM. Reason: Changed text
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Old 03-09-2009   #11
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Default Re: Why is everyone calling for a LB?

I agree with Hou-Tex in this discussion. We have some decent guys who could start, but they aren't anything to feel great about other than Demeco. There are a few teams in this league that pretty much always have good defenses like the Ravens, Bears, Steelers, and the Bucs. All of those teams have had very good LB's consistently that have made a huge difference. If we could at least one more solid LB to go on the side of Demeco that could help rush the passer than it would help a lot. I've got no problem with us taking a LB in the first if we're getting the best player available with specific pick in the first. No problem at all.
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Old 03-09-2009   #12
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Default Re: Why is everyone calling for a LB?

I didn't get to watch all the games last year but the ones I did I was tired of constantly watching our LB corp tackling people 4 or 5 yards downfield. I don't know if it was the scheme or talent but I want a LB that will shed a block and crush the RB AT the LOS. having said that, I wouldn't complain if they went after a safety. We helped ourselves in FA on the DL now it is time to get the rest of it in better shape.
The argument about a RB being found later in the draft cheap seems to be pretty acurate. We don't NEED a feature back, just a complimentary one and that shouldn't be too hard to find later on. I wouldn't consider one at this point in the first 2 rounds. Too many needs in the defense.
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Old 03-09-2009   #13
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Default Re: Why is everyone calling for a LB?

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
I agree with Hou-Tex in this discussion. We have some decent guys who could start, but they aren't anything to feel great about other than Demeco. There are a few teams in this league that pretty much always have good defenses like the Ravens, Bears, Steelers, and the Bucs. All of those teams have had very good LB's consistently that have made a huge difference. If we could at least one more solid LB to go on the side of Demeco that could help rush the passer than it would help a lot. I've got no problem with us taking a LB in the first if we're getting the best player available with specific pick in the first. No problem at all.


How much did Bart Scott show as a rookie- he certainly isn't more talented than Adibi. What about Foote, Farrior, Woodley, L Briggs... I don't believe any of those guys, other than perhaps Woodley, has more athleticism or a better college career than Adibi. If a team is drafting a rookie in the first round it is saying that the depth is insufficient and/or the player is more talented and more likely to succeed than what is on the roster. Why would their be a belief that Cushing is going to be a better WLB than Adibi? wouldn't both guys be talented players with some question marks? And, with the good depth we have, why is it a neccessary pick?
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Old 03-09-2009   #14
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Default Re: Why is everyone calling for a LB?

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
How much did Bart Scott show as a rookie- he certainly isn't more talented than Adibi. What about Foote, Farrior, Woodley, L Briggs... I don't believe any of those guys, other than perhaps Woodley, has more athleticism or a better college career than Adibi. If a team is drafting a rookie in the first round it is saying that the depth is insufficient and/or the player is more talented and more likely to succeed than what is on the roster. Why would their be a belief that Cushing is going to be a better WLB than Adibi? wouldn't both guys be talented players with some question marks? And, with the good depth we have, why is it a neccessary pick?
Adibi is like 220 lbs, had a tough time getting on the field, and then had a tough time staying on when he got on.

He showed some good speed, especially in his first game against the Colts. But it would be foolish to pass on a LB who you feel could be a true playmaker because of the one good game Adibi had.
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Old 03-09-2009   #15
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Default Re: Why is everyone calling for a LB?

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
How much did Bart Scott show as a rookie- he certainly isn't more talented than Adibi. What about Foote, Farrior, Woodley, L Briggs... I don't believe any of those guys, other than perhaps Woodley, has more athleticism or a better college career than Adibi. If a team is drafting a rookie in the first round it is saying that the depth is insufficient and/or the player is more talented and more likely to succeed than what is on the roster. Why would their be a belief that Cushing is going to be a better WLB than Adibi? wouldn't both guys be talented players with some question marks? And, with the good depth we have, why is it a neccessary pick?
So who would you take at 15 (NO Trading)??
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Old 03-09-2009   #16
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Default Re: Why is everyone calling for a LB?

I know. Doesn't everyone know that Jordan Scott is the guy we are going for. J/K. I don't want everyone to start calling me a troll.

Seriously though. I think you look at LB because you got to look at who would make the biggest impact for your team and is the best player. If you go back and look at what our team was like before Xavier Adibi played, we were pretty lethargic. Then, Adibi comes in with awesome game speed and we are a team with a decent defense and going on 4 game win streaks. Adibi gets hurt and the only thing you have to back him up with is Morlon Greenwood, and our defense gets whooped by Oakland.

After Adibi, what do we really have? To ask a better question - Is Adibi not going to get ill again or hurt this season?
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Old 03-09-2009   #17
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Default Re: Why is everyone calling for a LB?

I think the big thing is the speed, or lack of by Diles IMO. He just doesn't have the elite sideline to sideline speed I'd like to see in our LBers. Ryans is a shoe in and I think Adibi can become very good. First year and had no injury concerns in college that I can think of off the top of my head. REst of the guys I don't have a problem with. Great depth.

Very likely BJ Raji won't be there and unless you're good on taking Jerry a bit early i'm okay with the pick. Just is a complete bummer that 3 first rounders o nthe DL and only one, MW, has lived up the billing. I think the way Kollar has his line play will help a lot. I've said before TJ and Amobi aren't stand up tackles, they need to be disrupting gaps and getting into the backfield rather then tying up blockers.

I think a lot of people here are down on Moore but I think this past year wasn't really indicative of what he's capable of. I'd like to see his pro day workout. Realistically guy is probably going to be there in the second. Kubiak seems high on starting Wilson and Barber though.

Reeves and Dunta probably look to be the starters coming into TC this year. I don't know why by Bennett got in Smith or Hoke's doghouse last year after a solid rookie campaign. Not real sure what we got in Molden except a good STer. Hoping we stop the trend of small school prospects in the third. Jenkins is the only CB i'm ok with taking at 15 unfortunately I think his numbers and his draft status are going to rebound after his pro day. IMO by the time the draft rolls around the FO needs to have a feel on whether they intend to ink Dunta long term or not.

Couldn't agree more on our interior line but, who do you justify taking @15? Robinson looked sure fire during the college season to crack top 20. Not so sure now. Unger and Mack are good but 15 good? Would be great with any of those 3 on a trade down.

Maclin or Moreno might be possibilities. Maclin in goodbye Jones and you probably got a guy that's hard to keep off the field. Slaton is the #1 but man...how much better does this offense look if you have two backs rotating in and out that can kill you. I know it looked pretty damn good in Carolina last year. Tack that on with no one else really behind him and it might be a great value pick.

All things considered though we can run with the same OL for the most part, QB, Wrs 1-3, TEs, DEs,CB(for this year at least), and got a starting RB. I think we could run with our LB corps but I think best value for #15, BARRING A TRADE BACK, is a LB.

Again just my 2 cents.
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Old 03-09-2009   #18
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Default Re: Why is everyone calling for a LB?

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
How much did Bart Scott show as a rookie- he certainly isn't more talented than Adibi. What about Foote, Farrior, Woodley, L Briggs... I don't believe any of those guys, other than perhaps Woodley, has more athleticism or a better college career than Adibi. If a team is drafting a rookie in the first round it is saying that the depth is insufficient and/or the player is more talented and more likely to succeed than what is on the roster. Why would their be a belief that Cushing is going to be a better WLB than Adibi? wouldn't both guys be talented players with some question marks? And, with the good depth we have, why is it a neccessary pick?
You're never drafting any rookie with the hopes that he will be the guy to take your offense or defense to the top in his first season. You're drafting him to help you out in that first season and hope that he'll continue to improve year after year. You can't sit here and automatically say that no rookie LB in this draft that we could get wouldn't be better than Adibe or Diles. It's not like either one of those guys were pro bowlers. Both of them were good for depth and possible starters. Nothing guaranteeing them anything though.

If we could get a very good LB in the first round to pair with Demeco for many many years, I would have no problem with that at all. Having two very good LB's does a lot for any team. I want a great combo like Farrior/Porter or Farrior/Harrison or Lewis/Suggs or Urlacher/Briggs. Those LB's have been corner stones of great defenses year in and year out. That is something any good defense needs.

If Maleuaga is there at 15 I'd take him in a second. If Cushing is there I'd take him as well, although the steroid rumors do bother me a bit.
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Old 03-09-2009   #19
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Default Re: Why is everyone calling for a LB?

Offensively, I'd look at Michael Oher if he slips or Jeremy Maclin if he's available.

Defensively, I think the BPA is going to come down to Peria Jerry or Brian Cushing. I wonder how they'll rate Vontae Davis and Alphonso Smith though. Could get a talented DE/OLB at this spot but I have no idea how to project them.
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Old 03-09-2009   #20
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Default Re: Why is everyone calling for a LB?

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
How much did Bart Scott show as a rookie- he certainly isn't more talented than Adibi. What about Foote, Farrior, Woodley, L Briggs... I don't believe any of those guys, other than perhaps Woodley, has more athleticism or a better college career than Adibi. If a team is drafting a rookie in the first round it is saying that the depth is insufficient and/or the player is more talented and more likely to succeed than what is on the roster. Why would their be a belief that Cushing is going to be a better WLB than Adibi? wouldn't both guys be talented players with some question marks? And, with the good depth we have, why is it a neccessary pick?
I agree.

Saying the Texans have a bunch of question marks at linebacker is not giving credit to the rest of the defense. I feel more secure about our LB corps minus Greenwood than I do about the secondary.
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