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Old 03-05-2005   #1
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Angry Why mess with the D when we need an O???

Greater minds than mine are at work here, I'm sure...but I have to ask: WHY are the Texans worrying about the defense when we need SO MUCH help on offense? The left side of the line is...weak...inconsistent... Surely addressing this issue is more important than anything? Can someone please explain this to me? I'm getting aggravated, here!
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Old 03-05-2005   #2
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Originally Posted by texan_fan
Greater minds than mine are at work here, I'm sure...but I have to ask: WHY are the Texans worrying about the defense when we need SO MUCH help on offense? The left side of the line is...weak...inconsistent... Surely addressing this issue is more important than anything? Can someone please explain this to me? I'm getting aggravated, here!

You Don't remember us NOT getting sacks last yr? The Line was learning a new system, they might snap out of it next season.

Besides, don't think CC and the rest of the Front Office aren't looking to get O-Line help.
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Old 03-05-2005   #3
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I think the left side of the line will improve next season. LG Pitts is solid, and he'll get better with more time in the new oline system. LT Wand has done well in what is essientially his rookie season, and he can only improve. McKinney is the weak link, and Wiegert could be upgraded, but he'll last till we get a young guy to replace him. Wade is solid at RT, and he'll be fine. The offense is fine, but it just need more consistent play from the OLine. We've got playmakers in place, and we just need the OLine to give them time to make plays.

The defense needs to get more pressure on the QB, and if they do we'll be in good shape.
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Old 03-05-2005   #4
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Default "The offense is fine"

I'm marking my calendar on this one to give me positive reading next
fall---too, anybody know when Carr's contract expires, just curious?
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Old 03-05-2005   #5
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Originally Posted by texan_fan
Greater minds than mine are at work here, I'm sure...but I have to ask: WHY are the Texans worrying about the defense when we need SO MUCH help on offense? The left side of the line is...weak...inconsistent... Surely addressing this issue is more important than anything? Can someone please explain this to me? I'm getting aggravated, here!
The O-Line just needs an upgrade at center & possibly RG, & some time to gel together.

NFL STATS

However, the defense was:

1) 23rd (out of 32) in total defense (341.1 ypg)
2) 24th in pass defense (225.9 ypg)
3) 13th in run defense (115.2 ypg)
4) 30th in receptions allowed (344)
5) 30th in receiving TD's allowed (32)
6) 16th in scoring defense (21.2 ppg)
7) 14th in defensive take aways (30)
8) 32nd in sacks (24)

Our offense was:

1) 19th in total offense (320.5 ypg)
2) 16th in time of possesion (29.59 mpg)
3) 18th in the passing game (202.9 ypg)
4) 12th in the rushing game (117.6 ypg)
5) 23rd in receptions (286) (New England was 20th)
6) 21st in scoring (19.3 ppg)
7) 22nd in turnovers (25) (New England was 19th)

By strengthening our defense, we'll be able to give the ball to the offense more, which will increase the time of possesion, passing yards, rushing yards, scoring, & total offense. Basically, it increases the opportunities we have to score & reduces the opportunities the enemy has to score.

You could argue that a strong offense is a good defense by keeping the other team off the field, but everyone knows that defense wins games & ultimately, Championships.
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Old 03-05-2005   #6
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Originally Posted by ThaShark316
You Don't remember us NOT getting sacks last yr? The Line was learning a new system, they might snap out of it next season.
I dont think the o-line learning a new zone blocking system has anything to do with pass blocking.
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Old 03-05-2005   #7
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Originally Posted by DC_ROCK
I dont think the o-line learning a new zone blocking system has anything to do with pass blocking.
The thrust of the problem was that we had 3 of the 5 players at new positions and changed the blocking schemes. We had a project at Tackle and a guy who has never played Guard in his life starting right next to him with an underaverage Center on the other side. Weigert and Wade having injury problems didn't help matters any either.
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Old 03-05-2005   #8
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Capers and company are comfortible with Defense. Its natural for them to migrate to what they are comfortible with. The offense will never amount to much, because their is no one in a leadership role whoe cares about it. That's my opinion and that's why I think the Texans will never make it to the playoffs with this coaching stafff. Everyone has excuses for the O-line and how it will be just fine next year. Sort of like the Cubs going to the World Series every Spring as Ernie Banks use to say.
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Old 03-05-2005   #9
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Originally Posted by texasguy346
I think the left side of the line will improve next season. LG Pitts is solid, and he'll get better with more time in the new oline system. LT Wand has done well in what is essientially his rookie season, and he can only improve. McKinney is the weak link, and Wiegert could be upgraded, but he'll last till we get a young guy to replace him. Wade is solid at RT, and he'll be fine. The offense is fine, but it just need more consistent play from the OLine. We've got playmakers in place, and we just need the OLine to give them time to make plays.

The defense needs to get more pressure on the QB, and if they do we'll be in good shape.
Pitts is solid? Mr. OFFSIDES himself??? I don't know about that one...
How is McKinney the weak link? ( honestly want to know )
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Old 03-05-2005   #10
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Originally Posted by texan_fan
Pitts is solid? Mr. OFFSIDES himself??? I don't know about that one...
How is McKinney the weak link? ( honestly want to know )
Pitts is a dominant run blocker but is mistake prone. He is pretty much the football version of being bi-polar in his play. He is a better Tackle than Guard at this point in his career but we shall see how much he has improved soon. He was playing a position he has never even sniffed before last year. McKinney is one of the two or thee worst starting centers in the NFL. He gets man handled against big bull rushing interior players and gets whipped at the point of attack way too often.
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Old 03-05-2005   #11
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Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
Capers and company are comfortible with Defense. Its natural for them to migrate to what they are comfortible with. The offense will never amount to much, because their is no one in a leadership role whoe cares about it. That's my opinion and that's why I think the Texans will never make it to the playoffs with this coaching stafff. Everyone has excuses for the O-line and how it will be just fine next year. Sort of like the Cubs going to the World Series every Spring as Ernie Banks use to say.
Well I think the coaches are hoping for the offense to eventually gel, and work together as a unit, while they spend a few years building up the D. It would make no sense to build a great D first, and then pick a rookie QB, and then rookie WR, and expect them to contribute. Lets just hope the offense can show progress for the 4th straight year.
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Old 03-06-2005   #12
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Originally Posted by Hottoddie
The O-Line just needs an upgrade at center & possibly RG, & some time to gel together.

NFL STATS

However, the defense was:

1) 23rd (out of 32) in total defense (341.1 ypg)
2) 24th in pass defense (225.9 ypg)
3) 13th in run defense (115.2 ypg)
4) 30th in receptions allowed (344)
5) 30th in receiving TD's allowed (32)
6) 16th in scoring defense (21.2 ppg)
7) 14th in defensive take aways (30)
8) 32nd in sacks (24)

Our offense was:

1) 19th in total offense (320.5 ypg)
2) 16th in time of possesion (29.59 mpg)
3) 18th in the passing game (202.9 ypg)
4) 12th in the rushing game (117.6 ypg)
5) 23rd in receptions (286) (New England was 20th)
6) 21st in scoring (19.3 ppg)
7) 22nd in turnovers (25) (New England was 19th)

By strengthening our defense, we'll be able to give the ball to the offense more, which will increase the time of possesion, passing yards, rushing yards, scoring, & total offense. Basically, it increases the opportunities we have to score & reduces the opportunities the enemy has to score.

You could argue that a strong offense is a good defense by keeping the other team off the field, but everyone knows that defense wins games & ultimately, Championships.

What it doesn't show is that our ol allowed 49 sacks and hardly ever allowed Carr time to get off a decent throw.

So far we haven't strengthened our defense at all where it is needed. The dl.
Ray Lewis would have had a sub par year behind our dl last year.

We need ol and dl badly. I am more concerned with center and rg than Wand at lt.

Maybe Payne and Walker can come back and have monster years. It is a big risk to count on this these 2 to stay healthy and play up to their potential based on their past. I think Walker was just fat and happy last year with the big contract. It happens. Payne gave 100% of what he had. After receiving a good paycheck from the Texans the last 2 years Payne should be grateful he got the contract he did from the Texans. I think he will return the favor and play like a madman if he can stay healthy. Robaire should be improved with a year of the 3-4 under his belt.

Drafting an ol won't really help us this year. It is good for the future but we need a center that can pass block for us this year. Our top priority in fa this year should be to get Carr protected. Carr has taken a pounding for us for 3 years. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 03-06-2005   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
Capers and company are comfortible with Defense. Its natural for them to migrate to what they are comfortible with. The offense will never amount to much, because their is no one in a leadership role whoe cares about it. That's my opinion and that's why I think the Texans will never make it to the playoffs with this coaching stafff. Everyone has excuses for the O-line and how it will be just fine next year. Sort of like the Cubs going to the World Series every Spring as Ernie Banks use to say.
I'm sorry but I can't listen to this K--rap. If nobody cared about our offense then why did we spend our first 2 drafts strictly on offense. Why LAST year did we pay top dollar for a RT and pick up a TE in FA. We Have our youngest players playing on that side of the ball, thats the reason for the inconsistency. Also Carr has demonstrated on multiple occasions that he is comfortable with the leadership role. To say that this team or players doesn't care about the offensive side of the ball is just ignoring the facts. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither will this team. We have had setbacks on that side of the ball that you can't put the blame on our coaches, such as Boseli and Joppru (whatever his name is). How about this for a challenge, go to at least 8 different message boards around the league and see how many woundn't want the great young talent that we are developing on that side of the ball.
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Old 03-06-2005   #14
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As Cedric Benson once said it somewhere "Man you can't describe it". Evidently the Texans cannot exacute it (offensive line stability). We trusted they did all the right things, they signed quality free agents to get the team off the ground, two of which still start (McKinney & Weigert). Drafted a couple solid tackles, by the book in the latter rounds (Pitts-2nd rd, Wand-3rd rd) good. Then aquired a top notch RT in Todd Wade via free agency. So far everything seems to be going fairly well, good plan, exacuted with vision then the line coaching changes and the Texans move to a zone blocking system. Might as well go back to ground zero and start all over again.

In the meantime David Carr is no longer having a good time, he is frustrated & often anxious in the pocket and easily flushed, which is generally NOT part of the play as rehearsed in practice. He could probably describe it as high anxiety & not the unified calm that comes with an established, experienced line who understand each others roles, strengths & weakness. David & his line have to get to that point where they are always on the same page, if it comes from just playing together for a long period of time, better coaching, players, somehow it will resolve itself, years latter in our rocking chairs we'll look back & remember the sacrifices that made the rewards so sweet.
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Old 03-06-2005   #15
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Originally Posted by texan_fan
Pitts is solid? Mr. OFFSIDES himself??? I don't know about that one...
How is McKinney the weak link? ( honestly want to know )
Vinny answered it pretty well, but I'll go ahead and add on a bit. Pitts has mental lapses, and that's something he really needs to work on. He's got great strength, and this was his first year at LG. I think he'll improve greatly at LG as he gets more and more time to get comfortable with the position. Wand is probably a little better run blocker too, but it ,too, was his first year starting. Essientially we had two rookies on the left side even though neither of them were technically rookies. They both can't help but get better with more experience. IMO it wasn't so much the edge where we were getting killed in the passing game; it was up the middle. Vinny pointed out that Weigert was hurt, and when you couple that with McKinney getting pushed back regularly by larger DTs you end up with a pocket collapsing up the middle. I really feel that we need to address the center position in the draft and get a good young guy to bring in slowly. It wouldn't hurt to have a good young guard too so we can get some good depth.
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Old 03-06-2005   #16
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Originally Posted by Carr Bomb
I'm sorry but I can't listen to this K--rap. If nobody cared about our offense then why did we spend our first 2 drafts strictly on offense. Why LAST year did we pay top dollar for a RT and pick up a TE in FA. We Have our youngest players playing on that side of the ball, thats the reason for the inconsistency. Also Carr has demonstrated on multiple occasions that he is comfortable with the leadership role. To say that this team or players doesn't care about the offensive side of the ball is just ignoring the facts. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither will this team. We have had setbacks on that side of the ball that you can't put the blame on our coaches, such as Boseli and Joppru (whatever his name is). How about this for a challenge, go to at least 8 different message boards around the league and see how many woundn't want the great young talent that we are developing on that side of the ball.
Just read Vinny's comments on McKinny and look at the way the O-line has performed and its not too hard to understand. Yes, they certainly have picked up some excellent personnel for the offense, but they have not paid attention to the bread and butter which is the line. Without a line I don't care who the QB is or how great he is. He will get killed and your offense will go nowhere. I don't care who the receivers are, because the ball will never get to them. They are always worried about the defensive line, but they do not have the same focus on the offensive line. Wade is a run blocker and he was picked up for DD, not Carr. Now you can say if we could run the ball that would help Carr, but not when its pass protection time. Why has McKinny been able to continue to under perform at Center? As many have pointed out there is not a pocket for Carr. Would he step up into, I don't know because he's awfully gun shy. Now is defense important, most certainly. However, you can take it to an exteme. I think the Texans focus is on defense and will always be under Capers because that's what he's comfortible with. New England is focused on both with more emphasis on Defense than Offense. They do both very well and the coach understands both.

Vinny and you obviously must believe in this O-line and that they will improve enough this coming year. I just don't believe that is the case. I still say year 2's O-line outperformed year 3's even though it consisted mainly of the same people. The difference has supposidly been the blocking scheme. Well, I hope they get it straightened out other wise our QB's are going to be in the Hospital.

Near the end of the season there were comments attributed to Casserly, McNair, and Capers indicating they were going to fix the O-line problems. Yet, all you here is talk about the status QUO. So if we aren't going to fix the problem in FA are we going to use the draft. Everyone's talking about receivers and defensive players being drafted. Most say that if we draft an O-lineman he will take a year more to develop in all probability. That would probably mean we will not compete until 2006.

Were you honestly satisfied with the performance of last year's ball club? I think the Sharper situation speaks volumes about this ball club. I hope I'm wrong, but I have a gut feeling I'm not. You have a lot of money tied up in DC and AJ. However, without O-line protection you probably will never see their true potential. I will once again add that the injuries over the last two years have hurt this ball club badly. We need a number of people and I just don't believe we can get all we need from the draft. Therefore, I believe the 4 or 5 year plan is down the drain. Having said that where do you concentrate 1st in the draft, Defense or Offense. Defense is certainly the oldest, but defense right now is probably in better shape than the offense. Offensively our biggest problem is the Line. We will see next season whether this is Krap or not. Again, I hope the Texan's prove me wrong. It would be a lot of fun if they did. I'm certain I would never hear the end of it, but that's alright.
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Old 03-06-2005   #17
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The bottom line is that the team has signed 4 of the 6 of their starting linemen (including TE) as Free Agents since we started this franchise. They took Tony Boselli to start the franchise on top of that but unfortunately his shoulder never healed. To say they haven't done anything is simply absurd, a distortion and simply untrue. You don't just throw out the players and start all over again every year. That is what losing teams do.

You are a broken record Ibar. Your stuff is kind of funny, but I will admit, consistant.

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Old 03-06-2005   #18
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Yes, Vinny I am a broken record just like you are on some issues. But that's because I truly believe what I'm saying. Its your right to say you disagree and Its my right to say I disagree. Our QB's have been right at the top of the list in being sacked. I think that is a disgrace and unless corrected could lead to the demise of our vaunted offense. Yes, Vinny I do believe it is the single most important reason we are not making greater progress as a team. As some pointed out earlier, our defense would be even better if we were able of hold on to the ball longer or score more often. I believe that too. This ball club could be one of the top clubs in the league if the O-line can ever get their act together. I should add in all fairness if the O-line coaching can get their act together, as well. Again the proof is in the pudding and we will see what happens all to soon. Good night and god bless you Vinny.
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Old 03-06-2005   #19
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I'm not static on every issue and I don't distort reality to make my point. 4 years of reading the same post gets old though. Good night Ibar, sleep well.
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Old 03-06-2005   #20
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Okay, for those that feel we should draft an O-Lineman with our 1st pick, name one in this year's draft that is worth the #13 pick. He'll have to be a can't miss prospect that starts the first day of the season & will make an immediate difference in our running & passing game.

Oh yeah, before you spout off that we can just trade down & get one, keep in mind that there are no clear cut top 15 picks in this draft & that most teams will be reluctant to trade up with you.

By the way, here's a little history for you. In the last 23 drafts, there have been:

CENTERS

8 taken in the 1st round (only 2 in the last 11 years)
23 taken in the 2nd round
21 taken in the 3rd round

1st round pick selections
1 w/the 14th pick (Steve Everitt)
1 w/the 18th pick (Brian Williams)
1 w/the 21st pick
2 w/the 23rd pick
1 w/the 25th pick
1 w/the 26th pick
1 w/the 28th pick


GUARDS

31 in the 1st round (10 of them in 2 of those years)
38 in the 2nd round
52 in the 3rd round

1st round pick selections
1 w/the 2nd pick (Bill Fralic "85")
1 w/the 6th pick ("86")
1 w/the 7th pick ("86")
2 w/the 8th pick (Dave Cadigan "88")(Mike Munchak "82")
2 w/the 9th pick ("86")(Bruce Matthews "83")
2 w/the 10th pick (Chris Naeole "97")(Eric Moore "88")
2 w/the 13th pick (Eugene Chung "92")("86")
1 w/the 14th pick
1 w/the 15th pick
3 w/the 17th pick
1 w/the 18th pick
3 w/the 19th pick
8 w/the 21st or later pick

TACKLES

72 in the 1st round
43 in the 2nd round
42 in the 3rd round


Keep in mind that these numbers are spread over 23 years worth of drafts. While it doesn't predict what will happen in this year's draft, it sure does give a strong indication of how teams value the 3 OL positions.
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