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Old 02-05-2009   #1
76Texan
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Default Safeties

OK, so I've reviewed an early Missouri / Illinois game.
If I was to base a review on just a single game, Moore is at best a 2nd rounder, maybe a third.

He made a few good plays, but nothing outstanding!
Missed a few tackles, though not too badly. One is in the backfield. Others when there were guys to back him up.

Yes, they played mostly in a nickel package, where Moore usually took on the slot receiver, or come up to rush or support the run. So he played more like a hybrid LB, SS, rover guy.

At times he went for the big hits and did not aim to tackle.
A few other times when he tackled, they were a bit too high, those were times when the opponents got away. He also got beat for a TD.

(I'll have my thought on Vontae Davis - Illinois CB - later in another thread, as well as London Fryar - Irving's son.)

Next I watched Nebraska and Western Michigan.
Delmas is so so. I can't quite judge him since it was only a half of football.
I'm not sure I want to spend our 2nd rounder on him at this moment.

Then I watched Chung and the Ducks against Okl. St.
I don't think I want him as my centerfielder.
He's pretty good coming up on the TE Pettigrew.
But in a cover 2 quite a good bit of the times, he just did not look good.
Got beat for a TD. Did not read and react well on another TD.
Doesn't look to have quite the range that I expected.

I'm sure I'll have to watch more games and not just shooting these guys down.
But at the moment, I don't think any one of them worth our 2nd rounder.

I'll still have to watch more of the DEs, but at any rate, the guy from Nebraska, Zach Potter, could be a late round pick as well as his partner in crime, Ty Steinkhuler DT (son of Dean who played for the Oilers.) I've watched these two guys quite a bit. I like their activities and their football IQ.
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Old 02-05-2009   #2
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Default Re: Safeties

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
OK, so I've reviewed an early Missouri / Illinois game.
If I was to base a review on just a single game, Moore is at best a 2nd rounder, maybe a third.

He made a few good plays, but nothing outstanding!
Missed a few tackles, though not too badly. One is in the backfield. Others when there were guys to back him up.

Yes, they played mostly in a nickel package, where Moore usually took on the slot receiver, or come up to rush or support the run. So he played more like a hybrid LB, SS, rover guy.

At times he went for the big hits and did not aim to tackle.
A few other times when he tackled, they were a bit too high, those were times when the opponents got away. He also got beat for a TD.

(I'll have my thought on Vontae Davis - Illinois CB - later in another thread, as well as London Fryar - Irving's son.)

Next I watched Nebraska and Western Michigan.
Delmas is so so. I can't quite judge him since it was only a half of football.
I'm not sure I want to spend our 2nd rounder on him at this moment.


Then I watched Chung and the Ducks against Okl. St.
I don't think I want him as my centerfielder.
He's pretty good coming up on the TE Pettigrew.
But in a cover 2 quite a good bit of the times, he just did not look good.
Got beat for a TD. Did not read and react well on another TD.
Doesn't look to have quite the range that I expected.

I'm sure I'll have to watch more games and not just shooting these guys down.
But at the moment, I don't think any one of them worth our 2nd rounder.

I'll still have to watch more of the DEs, but at any rate, the guy from Nebraska, Zach Potter, could be a late round pick as well as his partner in crime, Ty Steinkhuler DT (son of Dean who played for the Oilers.) I've watched these two guys quite a bit. I like their activities and their football IQ.
That's not good to hear about Delmas. Some, like http://www.walterfootball.com/, have moved him up to the 1st round and ahead of William Moore as the top rated Safety. I was hoping we could trade down and pick him up later in the 1st and get some more draft picks.

How about Sean Smith from Utah? Have you seen him play?
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Old 02-06-2009   #3
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Default Re: Safeties

Great info! I like hearing thoughts of prospects from people who have ACTUALLY watched them play and are not just regurgitating internet info.

In regards to Moore (only one i've seen play). He was asked to essentially play CB a lot this year. Almost everytime I saw him out there, he was lined up at the line on the slot receiver. I don't know if the coaches like HIM there better, or if they didn't have anyone else better and forced him there even though that may not be HIS strength. If we select him, he should be a safety... where he excelled at in '07. I wonder if there really was a drop off in his game or if it was mostly him playing a position (CB) that he's not comfortable at. Maybe he's better facing the QB the whole time and playing with the play in front of him.

I'm interested in the Sean Smith cb/s guy from Utah. Great size and sounds like he has the ability to play both positions. Havn't seen him play so I'd love to hear some input from someone who has.
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Old 02-06-2009   #4
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Default Re: Safeties

Thanks for info! I think we can get a FS in lower rounds that will start especially if we can beef the DLine with a DE and NT. Raji or Ron Brace should collapse pocket and stop the run while a DE like Ayers or FA Peppers (if $ right) could benefit all DBs. I think I am even more excited about this off season than last, especially having hindsight of how trade down and picks worked out.
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Old 02-06-2009   #5
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Default Re: Safeties

All fanatics reserve their own rights!
It's always good to hear people with different opinions.

I intend to watch a few Utah games (I have them.)
Problem with me is I'm quite slow, I wish I have ten clones of meself.
I can't say the off-season is boring, 'cause I can't find enough time to review all the games.

At any rate, I went back and re-review the Mizzou-Illini game.
OK, so it was the season opener.
Moore was asked to play a different position, and after off-season surgery on the shoulder or sumthing (???)

Final score Mizzou 52 Illinois 42 (Illi was playing behind all the way.)

But the two guys in focus here (Moore and Davis) fared well, considering!

(I think I'd like to add CB to this thread.)
It's really difficult to put into words an analysis without side notes about other players, not just the CBs.

I'm not very good, so, please bear with me.
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Old 02-06-2009   #6
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Default Re: Safeties

Just my disjointed notes as the game went along.

Season opener.
Notes: Maclin and Davis are good friends (or as the announcer said, buddies.)

Illinois in pro set. 2-3 WRs, usually 3.
Missouri in spread offense. Usually 3-4 WRs.

Davis started off well, played close to the offensive players and made 3 good tackles.
Got beat badly once on the sideline, but the FS Bussey came up and help knock the ball away.
On another play, gave Maclin too much room on 3rd and 4, but Daniel was wide on the throw.
.....
Moore went after the Jr. WR Benn (6'2, 220) a bit high. Benn bounced off and turn a 5 yd short pass into a 26 yd gain.
...
On 3rd and 4 at Mizzou 15, Davis gave Maclin way too much room for an easy 1st down (9 yds)
....
Moore made a good read on an option wide for a 5 yd loss.
....
2nd half
Missouri 31 Illinois 13

Moore good in run support (twice) plus a screen pass.
Almost got to the QB (1-1/2 sec) on a safety blitz.

Not quite real fast in catching up to RB Dufrene 5'11 200 but managed to make a saving tackle.

Mizzou 45 Illini 20
Moore went too high and missed a tackle on a short pass in the middle.
He did have to avoid a blocker though.
Benn is a big, physical receiver. Watch for him next yr.

Moore lost WR Duvalt (5'11-175) on a simple flag route for a TD.
He had an eye on Big Benn inside.
.....
Mizzou 45 Illi 35
Davis was locked step to step with Jared Perry 6-1, 180
He looked back at the ball while keeping the receiver pinned to the sideline.
On this play, he was the shutdown corner they talked about.
......
Big hit by Moore on 3-25 along the sideline on Dufrene, limiting him to a 5 yd gain, forcing a punt.
.....
Mizzou on 3-9 with about 5 min to go.
Chase completed a pass in the middle for a first down, Davis defending (not his primary assignment.) Can he prevented the first down???
...
Mizzou went on 4-1 did not make it with less than 4 mins to go around the Illini 30.

Weatherspoon (Mizzou) took away a completion and ran for a TD.
Game over.
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Old 02-09-2009   #7
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Default Re: Safeties

More on Moore:

Was reviewing the Big 12 Championship game.
Moore looke kinda gimpy to me even though he was in a few plays and close to a couple others.
Then he made a nice play on a sideline, stripping the WR off the ball.
I didn't see him for the rest of the game.
Went back and check.
His feet tangled with another player.
At first he got up nicely, so I didnt pay attention.
But then after watching the sequence a few times, I noticed that he walked back to the bench (which was right there.)

Now I read that he has had that ankle problem for some part of the year (dunno how long). He also took himself out of the game (Senior Bowl) after the 1st qtr ???

I'm not even sure he played during the Alamo Bowl???

Here's what his coach said before that game:
Of safety William Moore, who left Saturday’s Big 12 championship game when he irritated cartilage between his ribs, Pinkel said, “I’m sure we’ll get him back.”
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Old 02-09-2009   #8
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Default Re: Safeties

Reviewed last year game between Illinois and Michigan.

Brent Musburger summed it up for Vontae Davis:
"A tough day for an outstanding player."

I hope it was his worst game.

Committed at least four mistakes.

1. Got juked off his socks at the LOS by a little double move by Arrington for a 47yd gain. Would have been a TD if the pass wasn't thrown behind, allowing the safety to come over to help.

2. For some reason, just let the WR slip past him for an easy first down.

3. Played off the LOS about 12-13 yd and somehow still allow the WR get past him on the outside. Never looked back at the ball (another ball that was thrown behind,) and therefore ran into the WR for pass inteference (23 yds).

4. With the Wolverines pinned deep in their own territory on third and 15, Davis could have settled for an 7-8 yd gain forcing 4th and long. Instead he committed an unnecessary face mask penalty that gave Michigan a first down. The receiver was ready to fall down.

Also, I would have like to see him work harder to fight off the receivers' block on a few running plays.

All this with the Wolves missing Mike Hart.
The Fighting Illinis bringing constant pressure on Chad Henne all day long, even took him down a few times, once resulted in a hurt shoulder that sidelined Henne for about 1-1/2 quarter.
The FR QB (Mallett ?) who replaced Henne was very inconsistent and made a few mistakes.
A gusting wind that worked against QBs.
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Old 02-09-2009   #9
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Default Re: Safeties

Thanks for all the info, 76. Awesome work! Keep'em coming. + Rep

Since you've got access to all these games. Do you have any info on:

Alphonso Smith?
Michael Johnson?
Clint Sintim?
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Old 02-09-2009   #10
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Default Re: Safeties

Davis stock has slipped alot. He was talked about as maybe being the #1 corner, and potential top 5 pick in preseason, but there are now questions if he is the 3rd or 4th corner in this class. DJ Moore has moved past him in many scout's view, and Alphonso Smith is a wildcard with his playmaking ability. He may wow at the combine, and convince some stupid GM to reach on a project, but I don't want the Texans to touch him in the first round, even on a trade down.
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Old 02-09-2009   #11
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Default Re: Safeties

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Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
Thanks for all the info, 76. Awesome work! Keep'em coming. + Rep

Since you've got access to all these games. Do you have any info on:

Alphonso Smith?
Michael Johnson?
Clint Sintim?
I'm thinking about doing Utah first, since I have really never reviewed Sean Smith. And there was a request.

Then I intend to go to Wake Forest

I can do Virginia afterward.

Ga. Tech I did a couple of games last year.
I still remember MJ didn't do anything agaisnt Duane Brown.
He looked pretty much like what a lot of people said.
That is if he can develop some more, he might be better than good.
I'll do him later. Been trying to work on the Safeties and CBs first.

Maybe I need to skim, but I really hate to do that!
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Old 02-09-2009   #12
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Default Re: Safeties

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I'm thinking about doing Utah first, since I have really never reviewed Sean Smith. And there was a request.

Then I intend to go to Wake Forest

I can do Virginia afterward.

Ga. Tech I did a couple of games last year.
I still remember MJ didn't do anything agaisnt Duane Brown.
He looked pretty much like what a lot of people said.
That is if he can develop some more, he might be better than good.
I'll do him later. Been trying to work on the Safeties and CBs first.

Maybe I need to skim, but I really hate to do that!
No worries, Bro. That sounds good to me.
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Old 02-09-2009   #13
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Default Re: Safeties

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatcheese View Post
Davis stock has slipped alot. He was talked about as maybe being the #1 corner, and potential top 5 pick in preseason, but there are now questions if he is the 3rd or 4th corner in this class. DJ Moore has moved past him in many scout's view, and Alphonso Smith is a wildcard with his playmaking ability. He may wow at the combine, and convince some stupid GM to reach on a project, but I don't want the Texans to touch him in the first round, even on a trade down.
I'm not sure I see anything special about DJ Moore when I reviewed one of the Vandy game (against BC, I think, the bowl game.)

What I remember was that Vandy's defense as a whole was playing quite well, but nobody stood out.

I'll go back and check on Vandy as well.
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Old 02-10-2009   #14
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Default Re: Safeties

First game at Michigan for HC Rodriguez.

The Wolves has a walk-on QB Soph Sheridan and FR QB Treet.
Manningham, Arrington, and Hart are gone.
The Wolves played 12 FRs so far in this opening game.
Spread offense for both sides.
New offense for Michigan.
The Utes are very familiar, having a couple guys back from injuries, the SR WR Castille and 5'11 230 RB Asiata (a faster Ron Dayne but not as physical.)

On 3rd and long, Sean Smith was step for step with the WR on a long bomb. Inc.
Smith was right on top of the play.

7-6 Michigan

On first down, Smith was all the lonesome with the WR on his right side of the field, playing up to the LOS.
Sheridan was pressured hard, scrambled up the pocket and under-throwed the wr.
Smith almost picked it off.
Was it a good play or would he had been burned if the QB had just a hair more time, or somehow was able to deliver a good pass?
The WR seemed to have gotten half a step on him at the start and also was ahead toward the end. A bit too close to call.
Good reaction anyway by Smith.

A couple of plays later, on 2-13 at the Utes 35, Sheridan went back to the same side.
Smith got away with contact per the announcer. The action was too fast for me to catch, but the receiver (Matthews) had a step or two on Smith. If the ball was there, it would have been a TD.
Well, it would take a great throw and a great catch for a TD, at that speed.
But Smith was at least a step behind, all I can be sure off. Most probably it was incidental contact. It's likely that the ref thinks it's an uncatchable ball.

FG Wolves 10-6 Michigan.

FG Utes 10-9 Michigan.

FG Utes 12-10 Utah

FG Utes 15-10 Utah.

About 1 min to go in the half.
Sheridan simply threw an ill-advised pass on 1-10 from his own 35 right to Smith for an INT (actually another defender could have had that INT just as well. Really, there was a bunch of white jerseys around before you can spot a Wolve in sight.)

Announcers:
"(Sheridan)... Throw off his backfoot, ill-advised, intercepted... and that was an easy one for Smith... Sheridan tries to fit the ball... into a tight space... That was just a bad decision, giving Utah the short field, there was no one near... "

The Utes would score again.
22-10 halftime Utah

Michigan changed QB.
The FR Threet tried to challenge Smith on the left sideline.
To a FR receiver.
Smith was all ready for it. Inc., ball was a bit wide outside, no chance for the receiver. Smith might have had a hand on it. Doesn't matter. The receiver never did put any move on Smith. Just a pure fade route.

...
FG Utah 25-10

Smith played back, but Matthews dropped an easy 5 yd pass. He may have twisted his ankle.

2nd-10 the Wolves tried an outside run right into the teeth of the D. (Both the DE and OLB were showing ahead of the play.)
Still, give Smith credit for avoiding the receiver's block to make the tackle.

Good coverage by Smith on the next play.
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Old 02-10-2009   #15
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Default Re: Safeties

It's true what they said that Smith does react confidently, perhaps even with cockiness. Well, he certainly earned it on this day. Opening game on the road in the big house with over 100,000 screaming fans.

The Wolves did score 23 points, none on his watch.
There were also at least half a dozen times that the QB looked Smith's way, but had to change direction.

The challenges I mentioned were timing routes.

As I watched the game a few times, I still have some questions.

None of the receiver put any move on Smith.
He seems to be able to stay tight with his men, even the tall ones.
But they don't look all that fast either.

I haven't seen him tackle but once (which was good.)

I'd like to see more of Smith as he does intrigue me.
(I still think William Moore is a better athlete - that is if he can stay healthy.)
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Old 02-10-2009   #16
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Default Re: Safeties

Well, the next game I watch, I expected it to be boring (as far as Smith is concerned.)

Utah vs. Air Force.

We know AF has been running that triple option forever.
I just thought maybe I can see what Smith can do supporting the run.

Well, it was boring for a long while.
Utah seemed to take AF a bit lightly.
AF never even ran a play toward Smith for more than 3 quarters.
Usually they would have a receiver in motion across the backfield to get Smith running around.

Yet the Cadets went ahead until Utah came back to tie the score in the second half and then went ahead 23-16.

With about 9 mins to go, it started to get more interesting as AF got the ball back and went on a long drive to tie the score.

The QB was 7-14 for the game. Five of the completions in this drive. And two of them at Smith's expense. Close to the goal line.

A quick slant with Smith on top of the receiver who is listed as bout his size, some 6'2-6'3 210 some lbs.
It was probably a pass inteference as the fans called for it, and the announcers agreed that they had a case.
Still a 8-9 yd gain for AF, probably why the ref didn't call.
It was close, but you really can't ask any more from your CB.

But next come a 6'0 guy running a fairly straighforward route down the sideline. A great throw. A great catch. Smith was a step or half a step behind and stretching. The receiver was also stretching and made a great play. You really can't ask for much more from your CB now can you?

I mean, the WR was playing his first game at this level.
His only catches so far were in this series... this the third one.
For the season, neither receiver account for more than 20 receptions.
AF simply doesn't pass... hardly.

Can Smith stay with better receivers?
Can he play in the zone?
It's inconclusive at this point.

I can't put the shutdown corner tag on him.
Is he worth our second rounder?
I haven't seen enough.
Heard that he did well in the Bowl game, I will try to watch it!

Side note:
A guy named Godfrey might be good as a slot receiver in our system.
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Old 02-11-2009   #17
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Default Re: Safeties

I like Rashard Johnson form Alabama I think that he is a natural free safety.
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Old 02-11-2009   #18
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Default Re: Safeties

Thanks 76Texan, really excellent work and analysis- rep!

Because of Smith's size, he seems huge for a CB. Not that there's anything wronge with that- it would be awesome. Did he play on the receiver both games you've watched? I was hoping they would have him at safety in a situation or two so we could see how he reacts when the play is in front of him.

I think there will be situations where every CB gets beat, but it doesn't seem to me that Michigan or Air Force really have nfl calibre wr's at this point. Maybe it was Smith just being aggressive, I certainly don't expect a true shut down corner at this point. Wonder if he could be a good guy to develop.
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Old 02-12-2009   #19
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Default Re: Safeties

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
Thanks 76Texan, really excellent work and analysis- rep!

Because of Smith's size, he seems huge for a CB. Not that there's anything wronge with that- it would be awesome. Did he play on the receiver both games you've watched? I was hoping they would have him at safety in a situation or two so we could see how he reacts when the play is in front of him.

I think there will be situations where every CB gets beat, but it doesn't seem to me that Michigan or Air Force really have nfl calibre wr's at this point. Maybe it was Smith just being aggressive, I certainly don't expect a true shut down corner at this point. Wonder if he could be a good guy to develop.
As I understand, Utah mainly play man.
So it's another thing I'd like to see if Smith can be effective in the zone.

I think Smith's lack of speed has prompted some analysts to look at him as a safety. I have more to watch but it takes forever (I really am slow. I lack speed, too, LOL!)

My gut feeling is that he's not an elite NFL CB.
He may or may not work out as a FS, but probably not as a SS.
Haven't seen enough to know whether he's good with the slot receivers.
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Old 02-12-2009   #20
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Default Re: Safeties

Alphonso Smith.
Wake Forest vs. BC

Smith played off the receiver on his left about 10 yds.
Looks good backpedaling, but then turn too far back.
Receiver ran a post route and got a couple of steps on him, but the pass was way off.
That should have been an easy TD.

Not a good start. But at least he was lucky, LOL!

Smith came up from all the way back to cut off the QB who scrambled to his side. Put a big hit on big Crane (I think the guy is 6'5 240 something.) Fumble. Curry recovered, but only after a couple of more guys got into the play. He was originally taken outside by the TE. Without the other 3 guys, especially Smith, the QB would have ran past him.

....
Start 2nd qtr
BC 3-0

WF with the ball
LB Curry off-side.
1-5 @BC 29.
BC in shotgun, one back set, 2 wides on either side. Balance line.
WF loaded the box evenly 6-2
Single safety.
Both CBs in one-and-one with receivers.
WR #2 ran a post corner route.
He started to the inside with Smith giving him a chuck.
He took advantage and bounced to the outside, turning Smith around.
Bad tackle by Smith, not wrapping up. 21 yd gain BC to midfield.

Crane got hurt.
Dominique Davis FR 6'4 198 in at QB fo BC.

2-10 Davis rolled right buying some time, but then throw behind the TE who slid out to the right flat.
Looked like Smith had slipped and fell in the endzone as Purvis came back toward the sideline. He was open.

FG - BC 6-0
BC - 13-0 after an INT return by Herzlich (more about the LBs and linemen later, probably much later.)

From the WF 15, DD didnt protect the football on the keeper to the right.
On the zone read, it was Smith who read the play well and came up to make a sure tackle right around the knee area as DD tried to spin around. A helmet to the ball jarred it loose. Patterson (??) scooped up the ball and scored to cut the lead back to 6.
BC - 13-7

(The announcer said that Smith is 5'9 - 165 ???)

FG BC 16-7 (after another INT by Herzlich.)
...
2nd half

First play, a corner blitz by Gheez (??) forced a TO and a TD for WF
Lead down to 2.

...
On 3-9, WF called another CB blitz.
Smith did a nice job faked off the blocking TE to the inside, forcing Skinner to throw the ball away. He's fast and quick.

End of third, BC still leads 16-14

WF blocked a punt and get the ball at the 1 yd line. Smith alertly scooped up the ball blocked by #57. Give Smith credit, he does have good awareness and good hands.
WF scored an easy TD to lead 21-16

.....
BC came back to score (including a 2-pt conversion) and won the game 24-21
(Smith wasn't figured in any of the play.)

A mix bag of news, what can I say!
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