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Old 02-06-2009   #161
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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Originally Posted by False Start On # 69 View Post
Adam Clanton interviewed Fred Weary, and hes not exactly thrilled about it.

Podcast Link: http://www.sportsradio610.com/topic/...udioId=3417264
Sounds like Fred wishes he wouldn't have signed this .
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Old 02-06-2009   #162
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 View Post
They probably did last year so Gibbs could hit the ground running . To me when you pay players the kind of money they make ... you protect your assets .

I posted earlier that I went to two open practices last year and they really didn't hit . I think this is why they got their butts kicked by to physical teams to start the year .

At the end of the day I really believe this is Justice pouting that his buddy was fired and is going to milk this until the teet runs dry .
Truth be told, I haven't even read the Justice article. I'm just adding my opinion on the subject matter based on what I've gathered from players over the past few years.
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Old 02-06-2009   #163
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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Originally Posted by Runner View Post
Truth be told, I haven't even read the Justice article. I'm just adding my opinion on the subject matter based on what I've gathered from players over the past few years.
The Justice thing started when they fired Riley . Maybe Riley took Stephenson's and Black's side against the team and like in the Godfather ... you don't go against the family .

It's been said alot in pro sports ... if you ain't cheatin , you ain't trying . That's why coaches have illegal practices and players do performance enhancing drugs ... to get the edge .
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Old 02-06-2009   #164
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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Originally Posted by InterestedJeff View Post
Going half speed is what gets people hurt. It's either go all out or dont go at all.
A truer statement could not be made.
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Old 02-06-2009   #165
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
A truer statement could not be made.


I thought Kubiak's defense was that he told them to go half speed. Doesn't he know this, or was this Kubiak's way over covering his butt, knowing they'd go full speed anyway? "I told them to go half speed, but gosh darn it the kids got excited and went full speed. Not my fault".

Or maybe the original bromide is wrong.
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Old 02-06-2009   #166
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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Originally Posted by Runner View Post
Since the players - and from what I know of these situation not just the ones that got injured - had the union rep complain to Kubiak at the time, I'd say they were less than willing participants. Any player could refuse to participate, of course, but they'd likely be cut later on. The problem is the teams have a lot of unchecked power.
So what exactly is the TEAM supposed to do when the players are the ones escalating the practice intensity? For all your good points, this is a question you don't answer.

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Football teams are companies and players are employees. The fact that it is a dangerous profession means the employer should take more care, not less. I don't think any of us would be happy if our companies put us in dangerous or "illegal" situations where we had to comply or lose our jobs. I don't see why football should be any different. The players really are people with lives and families and concerns just like us.
Again you say the team made the situation, I suppose we'll agree to disagree. I say the players made the situation, the team didn't stop them or frankly, didn't care to because it's commonplace. I see this more as getting caught from apathy more than getting caught with wrongful intentions.
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I'd be willing to bet that if this story was about the Titans rather than the "good guy" organization of the Texans it would be seen in a different light.
This is being seen in a pretty negative light. What light are you refering to?
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Old 02-06-2009   #167
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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Originally Posted by TimeKiller View Post
So what exactly is the TEAM supposed to do when the players are the ones escalating the practice intensity? For all your good points, this is a question you don't answer.


Again you say the team made the situation, I suppose we'll agree to disagree. I say the players made the situation, the team didn't stop them or frankly, didn't care to because it's commonplace. I see this more as getting caught from apathy more than getting caught with wrongful intentions.

This is being seen in a pretty negative light. What light are you refering to?
I don't take it as a given that the players escalated the intensity. I think the coaches got exactly the intensity they wanted.

The light I was talking about is the defense that the Texans organization couldn't possibly be wrong, but it is the fault of the sniveling, whining, pansy, fourth string player who couldn't make it through an old school high school practices. I'm exaggerating for humor.

And yes, we are going to end up on opposite sides of the fence on this one. Funny thing is, I'm usually a big corporate guy. I've just been seeing to much of the seamy underside lately.
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Old 02-06-2009   #168
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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I don't take it as a given that the players escalated the intensity. I think the coaches got exactly the intensity they wanted.

The light I was talking about is the defense that the Texans organization couldn't possibly be wrong, but it is the fault of the sniveling, whining, pansy, fourth string player who couldn't make it through an old school high school practices. I'm exaggerating for humor.

And yes, we are going to end up on opposite sides of the fence on this one. Funny thing is, I'm usually a big corporate guy. I've just been seeing to much of the seamy underside lately.
I think the side I'm going to take is to hold my powder until the entirety of the facts come out. There's really no sense slamming the player or the team until everything comes out.

It's been my experience in disputes that often BOTH sides feel like they are right based on the information and assumptions they are working from. Happens a lot. I used to do a lot of mediations, and usually when people really got all the facts out on the table, both sides ended up being surprised by misunderstandings and assumptions they were working under.

And sometimes when lawyers are involved with a situation, winning and advocacy becomes more important than coming to resolutions. finding the actual truth, or coming to an outcome that is a win-win for all involved.

If this came to the point of an ESPN story, it means that this situation turned into a lose-lose. The Texans look evil and the player looks complaining and untrustworthy.
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Old 02-06-2009   #169
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

"The biggest thing for me, first and foremost, is to get made whole," Stevenson said. "At the same token, this is something that I want to protect players in the future.

My take so far.
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Old 02-06-2009   #170
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

I put a thread on NSZ about this blog, doesn't have to do about the Texans, but the lack of coverage over the months from the Chronicle
Don't worry, he didn't mention RJ but there was some wondering about the other sports writer
http://blogs.houstonpress.com/ballz/...ball_on_te.php

NSZ thread(wasn't sure where to put a newspaper bashing thread)
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums//sh...ad.php?t=58561
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Old 02-06-2009   #171
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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I thought Kubiak's defense was that he told them to go half speed. Doesn't he know this, or was this Kubiak's way over covering his butt, knowing they'd go full speed anyway? "I told them to go half speed, but gosh darn it the kids got excited and went full speed. Not my fault".
I think there's a huge gray area when it comes to "speeds" of practice. The reasoning I can see injuries happening while going "half speed" is strictly in the trenches. The way the OL use their muscles in the legs, back and arms, they can strain those muscles easier when going at speeds they're not used to. This mostly happening during scrimmage vs. one on one drills. The OL works so much with each other that going at a speed their not used to can throw the timing off. You can tell the Defensive Linemen to go "half speed" but what does that mean!? If they go half speed, they're never going to disrupt the play, hardly ever. That's fine for some scrimmage when QBs and WRs are working on timing but not when it's full scrimmage and the Def. is trying to learn moves, stunts, etc.

It sounds trivial but I really don't think it is. I would think most of OL's injuries would come in the arms, shoulders and backs due to this. A DE goes inside and by the RT/RG, the OG is going half speed and puts his hand on the DEs shoulder and INSTANTLY his shoulder is in an awkward position. A DE going to fast, the G isnt' ready and he tweaks the shoulder. Doesn't sit out b/c the coach will yell at him and he's playing with a slightly hurt shoulder. This is compounded since the OL get so many 'minor' injuries all the time and play/practice through it. Anyone coming off of a more sever injury and this instantly aggrivates it.

The main point is your doing something you're unfamiliar with. You can go slow and warm up but any prolonged period of going at a speed that you rarely use sets up a higher percentage of a player becoming injured.
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Old 02-06-2009   #172
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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I think the side I'm going to take is to hold my powder until the entirety of the facts come out. There's really no sense slamming the player or the team until everything comes out.
I'm not concerned about the outcome of the Texans v Stevenson deal. This is just public corroboration of thoughts I've had for a while, so my powder went off.
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Old 02-06-2009   #173
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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I thought Kubiak's defense was that he told them to go half speed. Doesn't he know this, or was this Kubiak's way over covering his butt, knowing they'd go full speed anyway? "I told them to go half speed, but gosh darn it the kids got excited and went full speed. Not my fault".

Or maybe the original bromide is wrong.
this is one hell of a Kubiak impression! spot on!



p.s.

the quarter pounder ad is still going strong but the news hasn't resurfaced on the espn site. it also never made headlines on nfl.com

quarter pounder sure sounds good....
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Old 02-06-2009   #174
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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I don't take it as a given that the players escalated the intensity. I think the coaches got exactly the intensity they wanted.
I'd almost be willing to bet money it's a little from column A, a little from column B. You can take it how you want it but Fred Weary laid it out pretty well that guys start escalating their efforts when they get into the practices.
Quote:
The light I was talking about is the defense that the Texans organization couldn't possibly be wrong, but it is the fault of the sniveling, whining, pansy, fourth string player who couldn't make it through an old school high school practices. I'm exaggerating for humor.
Maybe you should look somewhere besides these boards? ESPN projected the Texans pretty negatively in the report. My defense of the Texans isn't blind loyalty though, it's more just not siding with Stevenson.

It is what it is, surely the Texans are at fault for breaking the rules but I find Stevenson's role in this troubling. He's in it for money, his 15 minutes and hoping his face on ESPN gives him a shot elsewhere...which he probably won't get. It seems like he knew he was nothing in the NFL, so he's getting his while he can no matter the sacrifice. People like that are hard to support, for me anyway.
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Old 02-06-2009   #175
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

i don't know how any of you can speculate on what his intentions were or what the teams thinking was. the only thing worth debating is what, if anything, the ramifications wil be?

the appropriate way to view this is with an eye for further information. facts, which will be debated and refuted.

the investigation that the NFL does will be much more in depth than anything the press or most certainly the opinionated, "investigative" texans-talk posters can know about. they will have access to much more information than any one else.

i'll sit and wait for a ruling.
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Old 02-06-2009   #176
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

It's interesting that when Kubes came here, there was a fair amount of conversation/print about how much less physical his practice sessions were than those run by Capers. I looked at the video and frankly I thought it was pretty mild from a contact standpoint thing. IMO, the no contact rule was meant to not have tackling going on. Pushing and shoving should be OK. I'm not sure how the heck you could practice football without at least pushing and shoving going on. I suppose you could just walk through stuff, but I don't see that accomplishing much.
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Old 02-06-2009   #177
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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It's interesting that when Kubes came here, there was a fair amount of conversation/print about how much less physical his practice sessions were than those run by Capers. I looked at the video and frankly I thought it was pretty mild from a contact standpoint thing. IMO, the no contact rule was meant to not have tackling going on. Pushing and shoving should be OK. I'm not sure how the heck you could practice football without at least pushing and shoving going on. I suppose you could just walk through stuff, but I don't see that accomplishing much.
I think that might be the spirit of the rule with "no contact" but at the same time, when you get lawyers and the like involved, the spirit gets tossed out the window rather quickly.

That drill was pretty weak if you ask me, but at the same time, I think I saw maybe a 10 second clip on ESPN. Honestly, I think that the real variable is how hard Goodell wants to come down on the Texans. I have no clue what he's going to do and that's the scary part.
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Old 02-06-2009   #178
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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Originally Posted by TimeKiller View Post
It is what it is, surely the Texans are at fault for breaking the rules but I find Stevenson's role in this troubling. He's in it for money, his 15 minutes and hoping his face on ESPN gives him a shot elsewhere...which he probably won't get. It seems like he knew he was nothing in the NFL, so he's getting his while he can no matter the sacrifice. People like that are hard to support, for me anyway.
I agree. Stevenson is exploiting the Texans for monetary reasons and notariety. Maybe someone oughta dig a little bit more into this guy and see what type of credibility they find. Hell, that is what all major companies do before they go to court.
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Old 02-06-2009   #179
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
I think the side I'm going to take is to hold my powder until the entirety of the facts come out. There's really no sense slamming the player or the team until everything comes out.

It's been my experience in disputes that often BOTH sides feel like they are right based on the information and assumptions they are working from. Happens a lot. I used to do a lot of mediations, and usually when people really got all the facts out on the table, both sides ended up being surprised by misunderstandings and assumptions they were working under.

And sometimes when lawyers are involved with a situation, winning and advocacy becomes more important than coming to resolutions. finding the actual truth, or coming to an outcome that is a win-win for all involved.

If this came to the point of an ESPN story, it means that this situation turned into a lose-lose. The Texans look evil and the player looks complaining and untrustworthy.
BINGO.

It's a lose-lose.

Teams need to abide by the rules. Had the rule been abided by, this would not even be an issue or a story or a 4th-round pick if the league decides to punish the Texans severely for it.

If it was a "weak ass drill" and "nothing to be concerned about," then why even do it all? If something is THAT far from being realistic speed-wise, then you're only running a risk of punishment instead of reaping the rewards of the drill. This is mind bottling.
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Old 02-07-2009   #180
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

well the players went throw the mini drills knowing thy didnt have 2 it was in there contract

but if a coach tells u 2 do something how can u say no when your career is on the line he had not made the team yet


and how would that come across if the coaches needed to take a look at your skill sets

its like a double edge sword IMO

sadly i work a physical job and if i got hurt there is really not much i can do .... at least they get to sue there job LOL
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