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Old 02-05-2009   #121
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Most people who have been done wrong by their employer would prefer to work it out with them. If that doesn't work, then they take the next step.
But what hasn't worked out for Stevenson? He's still on the roster.
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Old 02-05-2009   #122
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Most people who have been done wrong by their employer would prefer to work it out with them. If that doesn't work, then they take the next step.
Yikes, who wants in on that conversation?

"I think I should be paid for what my career was going to amount to."

"You were."
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Old 02-05-2009   #123
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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Originally Posted by TimeKiller View Post
Yikes, who wants in on that conversation?

"I think I should be paid for what my career was going to amount to."

"You were."
*Alex Gibbs appears in the corner*

*Cut-blocks Dan Stevenson*
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Old 02-05-2009   #124
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy View Post
But what hasn't worked out for Stevenson? He's still on the roster.
There is a big difference between being on an NFL roster for a couple of years and earning real playing time. In the latter case, you have a chance to end up making millions in bonuses. Whether we believe he would have earned playing time or not, he didn't get a chance due to the team's actions.

=================================

Case 1:
Team holds drills prohibited by collective bargaining agreement and player gets injured for season.

Case 2: Player crashes motorcycle he shouldn't have been riding according to his contract and is out for season.

In case 2 fans blame the player. In case 1, it appears many think it is OK because those are the risks the player takes. I disagree and think the team does have responsibility.

==================================

This doesn't appear to be just sour grapes from the injured players - apparently the team's player rep told Kubiak it was against the agreement at the time. That tells me other players must have complained to him and asked him to take action.
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Old 02-05-2009   #125
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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Originally Posted by Runner View Post
There is a big difference between being on an NFL roster for a couple of years and earning real playing time. In the latter case, you have a chance to end up making millions in bonuses. Whether we believe he would have earned playing time or not, he didn't get a chance due to the team's actions.

=================================

Case 1:
Team holds drills prohibited by collective bargaining agreement and player gets injured for season.

Case 2: Player crashes motorcycle he shouldn't have been riding according to his contract and is out for season.

In case 2 fans blame the player. In case 1, it appears many think it is OK because those are the risks the player takes. I disagree and think the team does have responsibility.

==================================

This doesn't appear to be just sour grapes from the injured players - apparently the team's player rep told Kubiak it was against the agreement at the time. That tells me other players must have complained to him and asked him to take action.

There's a process in place to take care of that player who gets injured while playing. Something evidently broke down in that process. Sometimes there are disputes as to when someone got injured.
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Old 02-05-2009   #126
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
There's a process in place to take care of that player who gets injured while playing. Something evidently broke down in that process. Sometimes there are disputes as to when someone got injured.
Yes there is a process, and it is being followed right now, I'm sure. The issue I see here is if he was injured in a drill the team shouldn't have been running. I don't think this is that big a deal as far as a rules violation. I'm sure there are interpretations of non-contact, and I know many many teams violate this rule. That isn't my point.

I just get irritated by the way most teams - not just the Texans - treat these non-star players as interchangeable pieces of meat. If these guys were injured in drills they shouldn't have been in, then the team is at fault. It isn't a matter of these guys "manning up" or whatever. It is a matter of the team not following the agreement they negotiated and signed.

There will always be people defending the team because as fans they can't fit the team doing anything wrong into their world view. I am pretty darn sure the players don't see it that way, and issues like this should considered when fans discuss the players' loyalty (and lack thereof) to their teams.
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Old 02-05-2009   #127
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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Yes there is a process, and it is being followed right now, I'm sure. The issue I see here is if he was injured in a drill the team shouldn't have been running. I don't think this is that big a deal as far as a rules violation. I'm sure there are interpretations of non-contact, and I know many many teams violate this rule. That isn't my point.

I just get irritated by the way most teams - not just the Texans - treat these non-star players as interchangeable pieces of meat. If these guys were injured in drills they shouldn't have been in, then the team is at fault. It isn't a matter of these guys "manning up" or whatever. It is a matter of the team not following the agreement they negotiated and signed.

There will always be people defending the team because as fans they can't fit the team doing anything wrong into their world view. I am pretty darn sure the players don't see it that way, and issues like this should considered when fans discuss the players' loyalty (and lack thereof) to their teams.
What is it all about anyway? Winning.... thats it. Its obvious now pretty much every team does this same type of stuff. Why? I guess they feel it betters their team and keeps them in tune with everyone else as far as preparations go. We were just unfortunate to have these guys...our guys... really take it the next step with the recording,etc. And now already points in the media are taking this waaaay deeper than it really is. I am not going to buy into it one bit.
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Old 02-05-2009   #128
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

My biggest concern at this point is that the Commish is going to see that this behaviour is starting to run rampant in the NFL, and to get it to stop it's time to make an example out of one team, or in other words it's time to Pac-man a team. In turn we get hit with the max penalty and it costs us a 4th round draft pick.

We all know that Roger loves to bring the hammer down.
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Old 02-05-2009   #129
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy View Post
My biggest concern at this point is that the Commish is going to see that this behaviour is starting to run rampant in the NFL, and to get it to stop it's time to make an example out of one team, or in other words it's time to Pac-man a team. In turn we get hit with the max penalty and it costs us a 4th round draft pick.

We all know that Roger loves to bring the hammer down.
Absolutely a possibility. As well as the danger from the pressure the NFL may face due to a possible media snow ball. I think thats why the Texans are taking extra time on making sure they get their response in the best position possible.
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Old 02-05-2009   #130
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

I just realized something that pisses me off about this. Kubiak gave that "journalist" Richard Justice something to spew about until the regular season begins.
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Old 02-05-2009   #131
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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Why has this story just now come out?? It happened in May 2008 and now Dan Stevenson decides to go public with it?
Because he realizes the Texans won't bring him back. Chukky Okobi is the only guy I would expect to make the roster and guess what? He's the only one not complaining. I think it has more to do with these guys realizing they don't have a future in the NFL, especially after trying to sue an NFL team. They might as well get a paycheck before fading into obscurity.

Also, Mark Schlerith, who played under Coach Gibbs in Denver, says this is how he ran things and Shaun King said successful NFL teams do the same. He actually credited offseason contact drills for our improvement.
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Old 02-06-2009   #132
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

For what it's worth the story isn't listed anymore on their headlines section at espn.com. An hour ago when I first read this story it was about half way down.

However, the quarter-pounder with cheese ad is still going strong.

Go Texans.
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Old 02-06-2009   #133
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

whoop de doo!!!!!
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Old 02-06-2009   #134
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy View Post
My biggest concern at this point is that the Commish is going to see that this behaviour is starting to run rampant in the NFL, and to get it to stop it's time to make an example out of one team, or in other words it's time to Pac-man a team. In turn we get hit with the max penalty and it costs us a 4th round draft pick.

We all know that Roger loves to bring the hammer down.
Yeah, and we are just the Texans... They will find a way th take more.
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Old 02-06-2009   #135
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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Originally Posted by TimeKiller View Post
Yikes, who wants in on that conversation?

"I think I should be paid for what my career was going to amount to."

"You were."
But you could also reference players like Brisel and Bullman, players that rode the practice squad for years and eventually made it to either the starting lineup or regular rotation swing man.
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Old 02-06-2009   #136
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy View Post
My biggest concern at this point is that the Commish is going to see that this behaviour is starting to run rampant in the NFL, and to get it to stop it's time to make an example out of one team, or in other words it's time to Pac-man a team. In turn we get hit with the max penalty and it costs us a 4th round draft pick.

We all know that Roger loves to bring the hammer down.
And this is what I said earlier in this conversation when people were saying it wasn't a big deal and that everyone does it. It is a big deal when injuries have hurt your line in the past. It doesn't matter WHO got hurt as much as the repeated warnings and that others could have gotten hurt. Well the league might know that people do this but it is never out there for public consumption and they don't catch everyone. So Roger could easily set an example for those who are doing it.
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Old 02-06-2009   #137
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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And this is what I said earlier in this conversation when people were saying it wasn't a big deal and that everyone does it. It is a big deal when injuries have hurt your line in the past. It doesn't matter WHO got hurt as much as the repeated warnings and that others could have gotten hurt. Well the league might know that people do this but it is never out there for public consumption and they don't catch everyone. So Roger could easily set an example for those who are doing it.
Bunches frats haze, and everybody knows frats haze, but as long as no one really gets injured or the injured are taken care of properly, it is ignored. Once the issue gets into the public, the offending frat is going to get punished and maybe more severely than they should, even if they are not the worst offenders.
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Old 02-06-2009   #138
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

Much ado about nothing. ESPN ran out of news material a day after the Super Bowl, because no one gives a **** about the Steelers.
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Old 02-06-2009   #139
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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I just get irritated by the way most teams - not just the Texans - treat these non-star players as interchangeable pieces of meat. If these guys were injured in drills they shouldn't have been in, then the team is at fault. It isn't a matter of these guys "manning up" or whatever. It is a matter of the team not following the agreement they negotiated and signed.
You act as if the players aren't willing participants in the practices. It's been stated that the coaches gave a guideline to go "half speed" during the work-out and the players are the ones who took it a step too far...and then another step....and another....then "oops, I'm hurt". What is Kubiak to do? Get in between them and wave a copy of the CBA in their face?

Dan Stevenson holds as much responsibility for his injury as the Texans do, however he seems to think the Texans should be the only ones held accountable. He's gone to great length to embarass the franchise, to get himself ahead on a technicality and let everyone else deal with the repercussions including the people who backed his original complaint but don't back this mess he's brought up now. I call that a snake-in-the-grass.

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But you could also reference players like Brisel and Bullman, players that rode the practice squad for years and eventually made it to either the starting lineup or regular rotation swing man.
Oh, you mean guys like Brisel, who MANNED UP when mofo's broke his nose during practice?

Guys like Bulman who said, "Now or never, do or die" and DID.

Dan Stevenson chose "die" because he knew he didn't have half the toughness of Brisel or half the attitude and will of Bulman.
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Old 02-06-2009   #140
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Default Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

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I just get irritated by the way most teams - not just the Texans - treat these non-star players as interchangeable pieces of meat. If these guys were injured in drills they shouldn't have been in, then the team is at fault. It isn't a matter of these guys "manning up" or whatever. It is a matter of the team not following the agreement they negotiated and signed.

There will always be people defending the team because as fans they can't fit the team doing anything wrong into their world view. I am pretty darn sure the players don't see it that way, and issues like this should considered when fans discuss the players' loyalty (and lack thereof) to their teams.
I think there are two issues. Illegal drills. And player injuries.

The team is supposed to pay for injuries that occur during practice whether or not a drill was illegal.

Stevenson clearly was wanting his injury taken care of. It wasn't.

So this is when the whole illegal drills stuff comes up.

If I were to completely speculate based on public information, it appears that something was screwed up in Stevenson's paperwork on his grievance. That whoever screwed up that something wanted to fix their goofup by leveraging the illegal drills information in a way to get the Texans to actually pay up.

I think it is wrong when teams or fans think of players as pieces of meat. I do think that especially in comparison to the past, Kubiak doesn't care where you are drafted--he wants the best players on the field. He has a history of giving no name players a chance.
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