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Old 06-01-2004   #21
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I don't mean to say that every third and long should be a draw play, or even half of the time. However, a draw play or a half back screen or some other safe play needs to be used often so the defense has to defend against it, making a downfield pass more likely to succeed when tried.

Teams that throw downfield every time in third and long situations are easy to defend against.
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Old 06-01-2004   #22
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I can't remember who Pittsburgh was playing, perhaps the Titans, but anyways they kicked the field goal on 3rd Down to win the game. It was blocked and never crossed the Line of Scrimmage. The refs gave them another try and the kicker made it to win the game. When I said last year I meant the 02 season not 03. Sorry have a hard time saying last season for 03 till the 04 season begins. Perhaps someone else remembers who they were playing against.
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Old 06-01-2004   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBTexans08
Another game that comes to mind is the Texans/Pats game in overtime when the Pats stopped the Texans and cause a loss of yardage when the Texans were in field goal range......what did Palmer call?.?.?.?. he called all running plays! He could have just kicked the field goal on 2nd down...if Brown would have missed it, he would have had another try, and then another................no...he went for all running plays and one screen play (not too sure of screenplay though)against a solid Patriots defense that smelled everything coming!
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Old 06-01-2004   #24
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Titans were playing the Steelers in the 2002 playoffs. Nedney missed a kick but there was a penalty on the Steelers and the Titans won on the rekick.
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Old 06-01-2004   #25
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Just convert on 3rd downs and for Gods sake capitalize in the Red Zone. We were horrible there. i don't mind a trick play now and again, but we just don't blow people off the ball on 3rd down, even when we bring in Wand for a big set, we couldn't do anything.
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Old 06-01-2004   #26
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I think the worst part of the field for the Texans is between the opponents 40 and the 50. We seemed to bog down there a lot last season.
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Old 06-01-2004   #27
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I think some of you guys that are mad at Palmer need to redirect your anger at Capers. It is Capers philosphy that Palmer is executing. Palmer's offenses in general have been more of the wide open type. Look what he did in Jax. Capers is the more conservative, close to the vest style. He would rather stay close and let the defense win the game. The Texans will not blow out alot of teams, nor will they be blown out in many games, with Capers as coach. If they had taken some of the advice from this board, and "opened it up", last year would have been ugly. I do agree that we are at the point where the training wheels need to come off. It's time Carr and crew started peddling on their own.
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Old 06-01-2004   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
BTW, where did you see Chris Palmer and the word genius together in the same sentence?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharon-herald.com
Baltimore, with the 26th-ranked offense, hired the latest "genius," Minnesota coordinator Brian Billick, as head coach. Billick guided the Vikings to the highest points total in league history, but he doesn't have those kinds of tools here.

Coach Chris Palmer, like Billick an offensive mastermind, eventually will turn to top overall pick Tim Couch at quarterback.
When the Texans hired Palmer everyone said he was a great offensive mind. They said his mistake was trying to move from offense to head coach. He was supposed to be one of the best offensive coordinators in the league. The problem is the Texans did not have the talent therefore he had problems. Now on the trick plays. The problem with 1st and more then 10 draws is that the Texans were not surprising anyone. They did it consistantly. Capers limited the offense because he wanted to give the defense the chance to win games. Now he will let Palmer run those trick plays and watch what happens when defensive ends have to saty home to protect against the reverse. Watch when defensive backs have to cover everyone coming out of the backfield (including the QB) and therefore are not as effective on run support. Those trick plays are valuable wheather they gain a lot of yards or not. They are more valuable for the situations they put the defense in then they are for scores or yardage. The Offense without trick plays is like the defense without stunts. Neither can be effective without them. No I don't expect the Rams. But I do expect explosiviness in the offense. The offense will be a threat to score on every play.
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Old 06-01-2004   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by done88
When the Texans hired Palmer everyone said he was a great offensive mind. ...Now he will let Palmer run those trick plays and watch what happens...
I don't want to get into a link posting contest, but I don't think "everyone" thought, coming out of Cleveland, Palmer was a great offensive mind. I'd say opinion on Palmer was mixed, and remains that today.

As far as trick plays are concerned, that RB option pass by Mack in the 4th quarter of the Jax game still burns in my gut. That was a indefensibly stupid call on Palmer's part that could have cost the Texans the game. A trick play on occasion can keep a defense on their toes and force them to play honest. No team employs these type plays better than New England. But they can't be a staple of a NFL offense and there is a right and wrong time to break them out.
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Old 06-01-2004   #30
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Some guys are down on Palmer. I like him. He is optimistic and creative. He is the best guy for the job and has a stellar record to boot. Players like and respect him and he is as straight up as they get. He'll say it right to you.

Accept some resumes that are floating out there right now at the college and NFL level and find a better candidate for offensive coordinator. Who is more qualified? Someone quoted the stats from Jacksonville in 97-99, I think that those numbers stand for themselves. Capers and Casserly know what he is capable of with the right mix - *that* is why he is our OC right.

We are going into our 3rd year. We are still coming out of infancy and just reaching 'toddlerhood'. There are teams with more superbowl wins under their belt then we have in seasons. This is a tough hill to climb. How do we compete with a team that is 20 years old? Tampa didn't win many games for a long time and only in recent years have been successful. I think that some analysts now see them as a legitimate contender Some people point out that CP did not accomplish much with the Browns when he was there. That is just crazy talk. Weren't they a new franchise at the time too? Plus he was the head coach not the offensive coordinator - He has a different role with the Texans then he did with the Browns.

The offensive players on the Texans are also the guys that Palmer scouted for a full year prior to the 2002 Draft and put in his influence throughout the selection process. These are his guys. This is essentailly his baby and a project that he is ready to show more of what it can do.
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Old 06-01-2004   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
As far as trick plays are concerned, that RB option pass by Mack in the 4th quarter of the Jax game still burns in my gut. That was a indefensibly stupid call on Palmer's part that could have cost the Texans the game. A trick play on occasion can keep a defense on their toes and force them to play honest. No team employs these type plays better than New England. But they can't be a staple of a NFL offense and there is a right and wrong time to break them out.
I agree with this statement. I don't want to see every other play down the field or a trick play. However the holding back of the offense has hurt Carr's development. Teams schemed for the limited plays the Texans called last year. The Texans were playing against defenses that knew what play was coming. If they open up the offense and allow Carr change the play at the line then better things will happen. Last year when carr saw a defense he did not like his play was always wither Davis off tackle or draw. When teams heard him change the play they were licking their chops. This year Capers will turn Palmer loose and Carr will be one of the top three QB's in the NFL.
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Old 06-01-2004   #32
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For most fans the right time for a trick play is when it works and the wrong time is when it fails.
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Old 06-01-2004   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by done88
However the holding back of the offense has hurt Carr's development.
I have the exact opposite take on this. I feel Carr held back the offense to a certain degree (along with the other young players).
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Old 06-01-2004   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DominatorDavis
...Some people point out that CP did not accomplish much with the Browns when he was there. That is just crazy talk. Weren't they a new franchise at the time too? Plus he was the head coach not the offensive coordinator...
Palmer was also the OC for the Browns. Crazy or not, Palmer was fired. Whether the Browns lack of success was Palmers fault or not, it wasn't a high point in his career.

You and others like Palmer, some don't, some are on the fence. It really doesn't matter what success or failure Palmer has had in the past. Right now, he's the offensive coordinator of the Houston Texans and will be for the foreseeable future. It's the success of this offense that Palmer will be judged on here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DominatorDavis
The offensive players on the Texans are also the guys that Palmer scouted for a full year prior to the 2002 Draft and put in his influence throughout the selection process. These are his guys. This is essentailly his baby and a project that he is ready to show more of what it can do.
This paragraph is the bottom line on Palmer's future. This is "his baby" and I agree he'll be more aggressive this season due to the experience gained and the talent collected.
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Old 06-01-2004   #35
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the key statement in the last quote was Palmer had a full year to scout for us prior to draft. With the Browns I believe he had about 2 weeks to scout and assemble his staff or something to that effect. What I can remember is that it wasn't long
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Old 06-02-2004   #36
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One thing is for sure the offense can't get any worse. 32nd and 31st finishes in team offense. That is what has to improve. I don't really care if it is 20th. They just need more consistant movement of ball up the field.
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Old 06-02-2004   #37
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Quote:
How do we compete with a team that is 20 years old? Tampa didn't win many games for a long time and only in recent years have been successful.
Tampa was 10-6 and went to the NFC championship game in their 4th year of existence, before modern free agency existed.

Regardless of what they look like today, the new Browns also went from not existing to the playoffs in 4 years, which set the benchmark for the modern era for going from nothing to something.
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Old 06-02-2004   #38
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Tampa actually went 11-5. But you're point is well noted. However it took them much longer to become a legitimate team than 4 years. NFC playoffs or not they were dubbed the "Yucks" forever.

I agree with rittenhouserobz the Houston offense can't really me much worse than it was in the last two seasons and if I recall correctly our offense early on in the 2003 season was ranked 10th overall in the NFL. So it showed some flashes last year which was a precursor of what is to come. I remember being very excited about that. They will improve it will just take time.
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Old 06-02-2004   #39
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My bad AJ and sorry guys - Tampa Bay was 10-6 durning the 79 season. I was looking at their overall losses that year - playoffs included then just did the math backwards.
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Old 06-02-2004   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
I don't want to get into a link posting contest, but I don't think "everyone" thought, coming out of Cleveland, Palmer was a great offensive mind. I'd say opinion on Palmer was mixed, and remains that today.
I disagree. He was part of some very productive offenses in Houston, New England, and Jacksonville before getting the head coaching gig in Cleveland. I think the general perception was that he wasn't ready to be a head coach and that he needed to go back to what he did well, coach an offense.

He was the wide receivers coach for the Oilers from 1990-1992 when they ran the run-and-shoot. He got a lot out of them. He joined Parcell's staff in 1993 and was the wide receivers coach for 3 years. In 1996, he became the quarterbacks coach. Look at Bledsoe's TD to INT ratio that season compared to his first 3 years in the league. It is no coincidence this was the only year he actually led the Patriots to the Super Bowl.
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1041

He got the OC gig in Jacksonville and helped Brunell significantly cut down on his INT's too. Brunell's too highest QB ratings to date were with Palmer at his side. http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1032

There is really no questioning his resume on offense.
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