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Old 01-14-2009   #181
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Default Re: Frank Bush named New Texans DC

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I hope Kubes got it right.

One thing that's for sure Bush & D. Gibbs will work cheap.

This seems to be the common theme among Kubes asst. coach hires.

I'm certain this is a directive that comes from Mr.McNair.
I don't agree with this at all. You've got Rhodes and A. Gibbs and we had Sherman. I don't think those are the cheapest coaches around. I believe at one point (someone correct me on this if I'm wrong), we had more coaches on the team than most teams. That's not the cheapskate route.

I don't think McNair has ever gone the cheap route on anything. I don't think he's pinching pennies. I think he's ready to give Smithiak whatever they think they need and whoever they think they need to be successful.

Now they've just got to do it.
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Old 01-14-2009   #182
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Default Re: Frank Bush named New Texans DC

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Originally Posted by bckey View Post
I can understand fans saying they are ok with the Bush promotion. Most saw the writing on the wall when nothing was happening to fill the position. But being excited and/or giddy is what I don't get. We didn't interview anyone else for the job.
We tried to interview Jerry Gray but was denied by the Redskins.
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Old 01-14-2009   #183
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Default Re: Frank Bush named New Texans DC

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
I'm trying to stay optimistic but I'm getting a really weird feeling about this. I watched some of the interview clip on the main site and was less than impressed. We've been told a couple of times now that the Texans asked to interview Gray but were refused and that Marinelli interviewed for the DL position but Bush was in that interview talking like he'd been picked after a lengthy search and several interviews. Seriously, he said that they interviewed "some guys". Excuse me? You mean like Marinelli and "you" are basically "some guys"?

I think it's pretty clear he was the choice all the way and that Marinelli was being pursued to try and be Frank Bush's "elder mentor" ala Alex Gibbs to Kyle Shanahan. Marinelli was going to kind of hold the bike up while Frank got used to riding it without training wheels.

Clearly babysitting our new DC didn't appeal to Marinelli.

Here's the deal. Bush is the guy and he's telling us exactly what we heard from Richard Smith three years ago. It's almost word for word. To make matters worse he's been here for two of Smith's terrible seasons so he's got the stink of Richard Smith on or about his person. Topping it all off he's got an eerily similar resume to Smith with no participation in a truly excellent unit in there but lots of jobs working for lousy to mediocre defenses.

It doesn't look good to me. I'm going to shut up about it for a while because there's nothing we can do about it and there's no point in griping for 6-7 months. I'm going to think positive and hope for the best but man, Bush is going to have zero room for error. We've all already got our complaints memorized because we used them all on his predecessor. He'd better not roll out a lousy defense next year or he'll be torn to pieces by the fans. We're getting better every year but the patience here is long gone. Results are all any of us really care about at this point.
As usual, well said and this whole "interview process" also matches up with my quote, again. I think Bush was never not the candidate and that they decided to keep the incest and no new blood crew going.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...t=57378&page=6

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Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
I'd love to see some of these names come in but in the bland, doing things by the book world of the Texans they will stay the course and just hire Bush and go from there. The excuse not to change to a high end coordinator will be.."he knows our personnel and they respect him." Just mark my word now and you will hear this from Kubes.
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Old 01-14-2009   #184
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Default Re: Frank Bush named New Texans DC

A good piece about hiring coaches and how its no different than hiring execs for companies.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...hes-are-hired/
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Old 01-14-2009   #185
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Default Re: Frank Bush named New Texans DC

bottom line, we hired a DC with no DC experience. call it whatever you want. i say it was a bad move for a team that could turn the corner this year.

as for me saying 'i hope it works out' how is that anything other than me wishing the best for my team? how is that covering my arse in case things work out?

here you go, mensa. how would hiring a DC with NO experience be hiring the most qualified candidate? it is a FACT that we did not hire the most qualified candidate? do you actually believe he is the best candidate? it is a FACT that we promoted from within from a unit that has underperformed and from a coaching tree (denver) that hasn't exactly lit the world on fire in regards to defense historically over a long period of time.

you can keep patting yourself on the back for being a member of the sheeple but the apologist attitude doesn't hold water with me.

I can't believe any fan would be happy with this move. I really can't....but this fanbase is the same fanbase who made excuse after excuse for players and coaches since Day One....so excuse me if it doesn't surprise me in the end.

...oh and the 'every DC had to start somewhere argument' is pretty lame if you ask me. there are plenty of qualified and experienced candidates out there, so what do we do? We chose one with neither the qualifications or the experience. how is that a good thing? but whatever, the Texans made the move so its gotta be a good move. after all, we have such a great track record as a franchise. God forbid someone be critical of such an awesome and successful franchise.

i am a positive person but when the franchise starts looking to Denver personnel for DEFENSE!! that is where I draw the line. It just smacks of cronyism and an unwillingness to go the extra mile and get someone with a proven track record and with some experience.

all i know is if our defense sucks AGAIN, Kubiak and Smith need to go. if all they are going to do is hire their friends, then we are truly doomed. how you can promote someone from within after such a pathetic display of defense is beyond me....but keep championing the move guys...at least your 'real fans'.

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Old 01-14-2009   #186
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Default Re: Frank Bush named New Texans DC

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
We'll never know, for sure, if Bush was calling the plays--All we have on record, for sure, is that Bush and Kubiak limited RS to things he could and couldn't do. That would be tough for a guy like Richard Smith to be around the players at practice, to be holding the clipboard at games, and basically be a Texans version of Milli Vanilli. How do you let a guy retain his dignity when he's told what he can or can't do? That's a statement all by itself. It seems RS was still calling the game, but with boundaries to what he could/couldn't do. Weird.

I mean, I would be a guy who would just say, "You know what? I can go now. If it's so bad that someone else is calling the plays and I'm a puppet, then I need to be on my way. No hard feelings. I knew what I signed on for."

Of course....it might be different if i was approached and told that I would be forfeiting salary if I left, that they wanted to pay me out and that I needed to finish out my term (for the sake of outward appearances and such).

Still, that was NOT RS's defense at around week 11. Then you have that pesky Oakland game where it definitely looked Smithish. LOL. Who knows...

I just know that I'm glad we have a new direction. I hope Richard Smith all the best, though. Can't be an easy job to coach in the NFL.
Here's what I think (which is as valid as anyone elses theory on this since we're never going to know how that worked in all likelyhood). That wasn't Richard Smith's defense returning in Oakland. RIchard Smith's defense never left. Based on the comments attributed to Frank Bush in another thread about how he and Kubiak basically told Smith what he could and couldn't do I'd say we were always looking at Richard Smith's defense even during that stretch of "better" performances. We were just looking at Richard Smith's defense doing sensible things and seeing the players performance increase as they experienced some success on the field.

In Oakland that was the Texans getting punched in the mouth by a team they took lightly and didn't properly prepare for. At that point they started getting pushed around and fell apart. What do you do when things around you fall apart? You fall back on coaching and you play like you practice and these guys have been practicing this crappy scheme for 3 years.

I expect Frank Bush's defense to look a lot better than the best 4 weeks of Richard Smith's lousy defense. I expect it to actually attempt to do all the things he's talking about today. Smith said all this and then his defense always came out playing exactly opposite of what he'd told us he wanted to do. Valid excuses in years 1 and 2 were swept aside when he did the exact same thing in year 3. Bush needs to bring the pain back to our house.
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Old 01-14-2009   #187
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Default Re: Frank Bush named New Texans DC

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Thing is we don't have any idea how much homework and reaching out they did. They may have called Williams and he rebuffed them thinking he is going back to TN. They attempted to talk to Gray and were refused. Marinelli picked the Bears. Who knows, maybe they even talked to McDermott and he doesn't want to leave Philly except for a head coaching gig. Sounds like they initially considered looking at the 3-4 guys and decided they did not want to switch schemes so that eliminated quite a few guys. If they really weren't going to consider anyone else I think they would have just announced Bush from the start.
Well said. Agree with it all.

I bet Kubiak and Smith told Bush "You're on the list, Frank. We just have to do some legwork and make absolutely sure, OK?"

I mean, it really CAN be as simple as that. LOL. Bush probably knew that he stood a great chance in the first place. He wasn't fired, so he's still drawing his pay...what else is he going to do: Throw a fit and run away?

You guys know how skeptical I am of the moves that are made, especially with coaching. I'm telling ya' this: I think this was the BEST move, and not just because he was "the only one available," as it was with RS 3 yrs. ago.

I have a good feeling about this. I bet the guys are thrilled, too. There will be the sort of attitude on the field that a player WANTS to play with.
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Old 01-14-2009   #188
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Default Re: Frank Bush named New Texans DC

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Originally Posted by Specnatz View Post
Why do you hate so much? So of these coaches out there with experience who would you hire that run a 4-3 and not a 3-4, because Kubiak has stated he wants to continue that route. Ii memory serves you wanted Sean McDermott, who has no DC experience. As far as being happy, unless it is the guy you wanted you would never be happy.

Why is it if someone agrees with what has been done or does not share your opinion they are a homer? I am really interested in your answer for that. You throw that out so much, like it is an insult. I mean I thought that is what a fan of the Houston Texans living in Houston is, a homer, cause he likes the home team.
i have never spoken the word Sean McDermott, ever. I wanted just about ANYONE as long as they weren't already on our staff and preferably not part of the Bronco Cartel.

Williams and Haslett were who I had considered...but that would have been impossible because they wouldn't be cheap and they don't have Bronco ties....so no deal.

the only things I like about Bush are that he played in Houston and that he is an African-American. his experience is nil and he hasn't even called plays much less coordinated a defense....but the Texans selected so he has to be good....after all, the Texans never make bad moves.
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Old 01-14-2009   #189
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Default Re: Frank Bush named New Texans DC

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
Here's what I think (which is as valid as anyone elses theory on this since we're never going to know how that worked in all likelyhood). That wasn't Richard Smith's defense returning in Oakland. RIchard Smith's defense never left. Based on the comments attributed to Frank Bush in another thread about how he and Kubiak basically told Smith what he could and couldn't do I'd say we were always looking at Richard Smith's defense even during that stretch of "better" performances. We were just looking at Richard Smith's defense doing sensible things and seeing the players performance increase as they experienced some success on the field.

In Oakland that was the Texans getting punched in the mouth by a team they took lightly and didn't properly prepare for. At that point they started getting pushed around and fell apart. What do you do when things around you fall apart? You fall back on coaching and you play like you practice and these guys have been practicing this crappy scheme for 3 years.

I expect Frank Bush's defense to look a lot better than the best 4 weeks of Richard Smith's lousy defense. I expect it to actually attempt to do all the things he's talking about today. Smith said all this and then his defense always came out playing exactly opposite of what he'd told us he wanted to do. Valid excuses in years 1 and 2 were swept aside when he did the exact same thing in year 3. Bush needs to bring the pain back to our house.
I just can't buy into that portion of your post, Herv.

Respectfully have to say that I don't think Richard Smith has the ability to make "sensible decisions" as you theorized he began doing all of a sudden.

We did take Oakland too lightly, I agree. But the tone of our defense from the very outset was this 4-man front with LBs basically holding their places at the snap and watching what was happening vs. other games where you see the LBs moving all along the line, faking blitzes or actually coming on a blitz of some kind. Same thing goes for our DBs. The result was that Oakland loaded up the line and ran the ball all day. That's not the sort of effort (in terms of strategy) that we saw the four games before and the game after Oakland.

I guess it's all water under the dam, as Karl Malone said one time in one of his interviews. Doesn't matter. We'll see what Frankie can do, eh?
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Old 01-14-2009   #190
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Default Re: Frank Bush named New Texans DC

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
i have never spoken the word Sean McDermott, ever. I wanted just about ANYONE as long as they weren't already on our staff and preferably not part of the Bronco Cartel.

Williams and Haslett were who I had considered...but that would have been impossible because they wouldn't be cheap and they don't have Bronco ties....so no deal.

the only things I like about Bush are that he played in Houston and that he is an African-American. his experience is nil and he hasn't even called plays much less coordinated a defense....but the Texans selected so he has to be good....after all, the Texans never make bad moves.
Yeah and not everything they do is bad either. Jim Haslett still the interim HC for St. Louis, so why would he take a DC position? That makes a hell of a lot of sense.
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Old 01-14-2009   #191
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Default Re: Frank Bush named New Texans DC

Not to change the focus of this thread, but was Frank Bush coaching the LBs in Arizona while Karlos Dansby was there? If so, I wouldn't mind seeing Dansby come play for his old LB coach. I guess it all depends whether or not Arizona lets him walk.
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Old 01-14-2009   #192
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Default Re: Frank Bush named New Texans DC

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
i have never spoken the word Sean McDermott, ever. I wanted just about ANYONE as long as they weren't already on our staff and preferably not part of the Bronco Cartel.

Williams and Haslett were who I had considered...but that would have been impossible because they wouldn't be cheap and they don't have Bronco ties....so no deal.

the only things I like about Bush are that he played in Houston and that he is an African-American. his experience is nil and he hasn't even called plays much less coordinated a defense....but the Texans selected so he has to be good....after all, the Texans never make bad moves.
If you want to see me criticize the Texan organization, all that would have to happen is for them to hire freakin' Haslett for DC. Thank God that didn't happen!

I don't think anyone is saying that this will definitely be a great move. Instead, we're hopeful. You, however, can't see the difference. Neither you or I have any real ability to know right now if this is a good move or not. You, on one hand, choose to attack the selection. I choose to give the organization the benefit of the doubt and am eager to see if it works out well.
Believe me, I'll turn on the pick with vengeance once there is enough evidence that it's a bad one. I just don't see any reason to anticipate that happening. By the way, I think Kubiak's track record with major decisions for this organization is pretty good. Perhaps he's earned the benefit of the doubt?

you know, I'm sure you spoke out against all of these moves:
1. Mario over Reggie and Vince
2. trading for MSchaub
3. bringing Rick Smith in as GM
4. promoting Shanahan to OC
5. starting DBrown all season
6. Kevin Walter trade and insertion into the starting lineup
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Old 01-14-2009   #193
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Default Re: Frank Bush named New Texans DC

What exactly was Bush in charge of the past couple years and what is a senior defensive assistant? Sounds like someone who would assist the DC. With a LB background as both a player and coach, I assume he assisted coach Holland with the backers?

Hopefully the Texans can land David Gibbs for the DB coach.

Yes… Bush was LB coach with Dansby for three years. They both came to Arizona in 2004.
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Old 01-14-2009   #194
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Default Re: Frank Bush named New Texans DC

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you know, I'm sure you spoke out against all of these moves:
1. Mario over Reggie and Vince
2. trading for MSchaub
3. bringing Rick Smith in as GM
4. promoting Shanahan to OC
5. starting DBrown all season
6. Kevin Walter trade and insertion into the starting lineup
Rep your way Dale, purely because I'm evil that way
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Old 01-14-2009   #195
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Default Re: Frank Bush named New Texans DC

I have to admit I rolled my eyes a little when Bush said he wanted our defense to be aggressive and attacking. It'd be far too depressing to go back and look at Richard Smith's first presser, but seems to me he said near the same. To be fair I think those are basically the cookie cutter adjectives used ubiquitously by new DC's to describe their style.

I'm a bit concerned by Bush's naivety in calling plays. We don't have the luxury of a grace period this year. The defense sucks and we drop a couple woulda, shoulda, coulda's while the D works out the kinks and we're gonna miss the playoffs again. We miss the playoffs again and the gigs up. Bush needs to get this D firing on all cylinders from the get go, this staff can't afford any less.
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Old 01-14-2009   #196
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Default Re: Frank Bush named New Texans DC

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I'm a bit concerned by Bush's naivety in calling plays.
I understand the concern with that but alot of the guys that people were putting out here on this board didn't have any experience in calling plays either.

McDermott, if I am not mistaken, has less overall experience than Bush and does not have any experience calling plays either.
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Old 01-14-2009   #197
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Default Re: Frank Bush named New Texans DC

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
bottom line, we hired a DC with no DC experience. call it whatever you want. i say it was a bad move for a team that could turn the corner this year.

as for me saying 'i hope it works out' how is that anything other than me wishing the best for my team? how is that covering my arse in case things work out?

here you go, mensa. how would hiring a DC with NO experience be hiring the most qualified candidate? it is a FACT that we did not hire the most qualified candidate? do you actually believe he is the best candidate? it is a FACT that we promoted from within from a unit that has underperformed and from a coaching tree (denver) that hasn't exactly lit the world on fire in regards to defense historically over a long period of time.

you can keep patting yourself on the back for being a member of the sheeple but the apologist attitude doesn't hold water with me.

I can't believe any fan would be happy with this move. I really can't....but this fanbase is the same fanbase who made excuse after excuse for players and coaches since Day One....so excuse me if it doesn't surprise me in the end.

...oh and the 'every DC had to start somewhere argument' is pretty lame if you ask me. there are plenty of qualified and experienced candidates out there, so what do we do? We chose one with neither the qualifications or the experience. how is that a good thing? but whatever, the Texans made the move so its gotta be a good move. after all, we have such a great track record as a franchise. God forbid someone be critical of such an awesome and successful franchise.

i am a positive person but when the franchise starts looking to Denver personnel for DEFENSE!! that is where I draw the line. It just smacks of cronyism and an unwillingness to go the extra mile and get someone with a proven track record and with some experience.

all i know is if our defense sucks AGAIN, Kubiak and Smith need to go. if all they are going to do is hire their friends, then we are truly doomed. how you can promote someone from within after such a pathetic display of defense is beyond me....but keep championing the move guys...at least your 'real fans'.

INSULT FREE
That jumped out at me a bit. I have been posting here for a pretty long time and it seems like you tend to live in the negative. Just sayin.

Yeah he did coach there but he didnt get his start there. He is a part of the Buddy Ryan tree of coaching. I think most here arent "happy" about it but just want to see the guy actually coach before they say he sucks. I was going to post more but it really isnt worth it anyway. You dont care about any viewpoint but your own.
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Old 01-14-2009   #198
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Default Re: Frank Bush named New Texans DC

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Originally Posted by Fox View Post
I have to admit I rolled my eyes a little when Bush said he wanted our defense to be aggressive and attacking. It'd be far too depressing to go back and look at Richard Smith's first presser, but seems to me he said near the same. To be fair I think those are basically the cookie cutter adjectives used ubiquitously by new DC's to describe their style.

I'm a bit concerned by Bush's naivety in calling plays. We don't have the luxury of a grace period this year. The defense sucks and we drop a couple woulda, shoulda, coulda's while the D works out the kinks and we're gonna miss the playoffs again. We miss the playoffs again and the gigs up. Bush needs to get this D firing on all cylinders from the get go, this staff can't afford any less.
Oh geeze! Reading this the thought just occurred to me that this team can now blow the first half of the schedule next season and have the excuse that they were having to gell as a unit, or that they had to learn a new defense. I'm tired of excuses. But wait and see , If the team crashes the first half, and we don't make the play-offs or have a convincing winning record, someone will be using those excuses. And the thought might be added that they need a couple of years to get used to the new scheme. I can't believe this.... I'm having a waking nightmare.
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Old 01-14-2009   #199
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Default Re: Frank Bush named New Texans DC

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
I just can't buy into that portion of your post, Herv....
I don't know why not. They didn't implement an entirely different system ("Frank Bush's System"). They edited Smith's system down to the stuff that worked and told him not to deviate from that subset of his defense. In short we saw Richard Smith's defense with all the looney bits removed. What remained was still his and will probably bear some resemblance to whatever Frank Bush implements which is fine. It worked.

They always talk about simplifying things to make them faster and to get players moving instead of standing there trying to work everything out. They pared Smith's defense down to only that (arguably making it so generic it was hardly attributable to anyone) and it worked... at least better than what he'd been doing. Compared to the full package "Richard Smith Simplified" looked like we'd suddenly become the 85' Bears.

Frank Bush's system will have to be a damn sight better than that for him to be considered a successful hire.
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Old 01-14-2009   #200
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Default Re: Frank Bush named New Texans DC

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
Williams and Haslett were who I had considered...but that would have been impossible because they wouldn't be cheap and they don't have Bronco ties....so no deal.
Thank God Almighty that you're not making the decisions for the Texans! Williams and Haslett? Are you kidding? Did you even watch the Rams last year or the year before that? There defense was awful, way worse than the Texans. Why would any fan of the Texans consider Jim Haslett an upgrade at the DC position? Oh, I forgot, he has experience...

And Williams (sigh)? Why would you want Gregg Williams either? He did nothing with a pretty talented Jaguars defense last year. If he's so good, then why didn't Zorn keep him as his DC when he got the job? Tomlin kept Lebeau. Chucky kept Kiffin. I'm pretty sure if Andy Reid retired today that the next Eagles coach would keep Johnson. Harbaugh kept Ryan. Why didn't Zorn keep Williams? Hell, why didn't Del Rio keep Williams? Williams is a decent at best DC, but he is by no means spectacular.

The Texans get credit from me because I feel that they went after the two best available defensive coaches on the market. They wanted Marinelli as the d-line coach, and they wanted to interview Jerry Gray for the DC position. Marinelli chose the Bears because of his personal relationship with Lovie Smith. You know, the whole Bucs Cartel thing. The Redskins denied the Texans the chance to interview Gray for the post. End of story. Bush is the new DC. Seemed like the most reasonable choice all things considered.
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