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Old 01-07-2009   #1
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Default DE's entering the draft

Alright, let's discuss the DE's coming out. It doesn't seem to be a lot of them this year.

People need to stop saying we need to go after Arakpo. He'll be gone by the 15th pick, so what DE would possibly be available with the 15th pick that would be worth taking with that pick over any other defensive player?? Realistic options guys.

Anyone think that Tyson Jackson or Zach Potter would be worth the pick at 15? Or would it just be smarter to take the best player available on defense with the pick since Orakpo and Michael Johnson should both be gone?
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Old 01-07-2009   #2
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Default Re: DE's entering the draft

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Alright, let's discuss the DE's coming out. It doesn't seem to be a lot of them this year.

People need to stop saying we need to go after Arakpo. He'll be gone by the 15th pick, so what DE would possibly be available with the 15th pick that would be worth taking with that pick over any other defensive player?? Realistic options guys.

Anyone think that Tyson Jackson or Zach Potter would be worth the pick at 15? Or would it just be smarter to take the best player available on defense with the pick since Orakpo and Michael Johnson should both be gone?
Don't forget that Smith and Kubes thought Okoye would be gone too. I think Orakpo will be gone also but who knows? What if he is 3 spots above us? Do we offer a 5th to trade up? IMO, the first round offers more value to us with a free safety (especially after a trade down) and DE in 2nd. These are two needs that need to be addressed day one.
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Old 01-07-2009   #3
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Default Re: DE's entering the draft

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Don't forget that Smith and Kubes thought Okoye would be gone too. I think Orakpo will be gone also but who knows? What if he is 3 spots above us? Do we offer a 5th to trade up? IMO, the first round offers more value to us with a free safety (especially after a trade down) and DE in 2nd. These are two needs that need to be addressed day one.
Yeah, I think we HAVE to go DE and S with our first two picks. It just depends on who is there on the board and who is off as to who we pick first.

I don't think that there will be any way that Orakpo slips that far though. He will be a work out warrior in the combine and will stun the scouts I can assure you. If that situation were to come though where he is that close I would totally trade up for him if it meant a 5th rounder to give up, but I think it would be more like a 3rd. That would be tough to give up.

Let's say that we get Mays with our first pick or even do the trade down thing and get Moore like you suggested earlier later in the first, then what DE's do you think could be available in the mid 2nd round that would be worth taking with that pick?
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Old 01-07-2009   #4
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Default Re: DE's entering the draft

This does seem to be a difficult year for picking a DE. Other that Orakpo, I think that Everette Brown will go high in the 1st round and would be worth our #15 pick as for Tyson Jackson he's already on the Texans squad, his name is Anthony Weaver and we don't need another one. Michael Johnson is a tough pick he's got lots of potential due to physical size, and moderate production, but if you've seen him play he's lazy. He takes lots of plays off and lacks physical conditioning and heart. He gets pushed out of the way on running plays to his side easily and doesn't pursue running plays on the backside. Once is a while he'll pin his ears back and go after the QB and get a sack or hurry on the QB but then he'll take the next few plays off. He's going to need lots of coaching and motivation. He's a risky project player with lots of potential but we don't need projects we need immediate production. Greg Hardy might also be possible for us at #15 but he's got injury concerns. When healthy though he's great.
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Old 01-07-2009   #5
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Default Re: DE's entering the draft

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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
This does seem to be a difficult year for picking a DE. Other that Orakpo, I think that Everette Brown will go high in the 1st round and would be worth our #15 pick as for Tyson Jackson he's already on the Texans squad, his name is Anthony Weaver and we don't need another one. Michael Johnson is a tough pick he's got lots of potential due to physical size, and moderate production, but if you've seen him play he's lazy. He takes lots of plays off and lacks physical conditioning and heart. He gets pushed out of the way on running plays to his side easily and doesn't pursue running plays on the backside. Once is a while he'll pin his ears back and go after the QB and get a sack or hurry on the QB but then he'll take the next few plays off. He's going to need lots of coaching and motivation. He's a risky project player with lots of potential but we don't need projects we need immediate production. Greg Hardy might also be possible for us at #15 but he's got injury concerns. When healthy though he's great.
I agree with pretty much everything you said here. Everything I have read about Johnson seems to be the same thing you just wrote.

I don't know anything about Tyson Jackson, so that is why I had asked. Don't want another Weaver.

That is the problem that I had a strong feeling we would have being at the 15th pick. The top tier DE's usually go in the top 10 to 12 picks at the highest and there usually is only about 3 of them MAX that look like Studs. There is always a sleeper out there in later rounds, but of course that is a crap shoot knowing which one it is because they all have certain potential.

It looks like we will most likely have to go Safety with the first pick unless we trade up, and I doubt the Texans would give up a pick to trade up.
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Old 01-07-2009   #6
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Default Re: DE's entering the draft

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Alright, let's discuss the DE's coming out. It doesn't seem to be a lot of them this year.

People need to stop saying we need to go after Arakpo. He'll be gone by the 15th pick, so what DE would possibly be available with the 15th pick that would be worth taking with that pick over any other defensive player?? Realistic options guys.

Anyone think that Tyson Jackson or Zach Potter would be worth the pick at 15? Or would it just be smarter to take the best player available on defense with the pick since Orakpo and Michael Johnson should both be gone?
There actually are a lot of DE's comnig out this year. A lot of threads have been talking about them specifically already. This year there seem to be more college DE's who would be best suited for the 3-4 OLB spot similar to Ware in the NFL. Some of the top college DE's in fact could very easily fall into that group, guys like: Everette Brown, Maybin, George Selvie, the guy from TCU. It's too early to really get into this stuff, but there will be a few teams hoping to beat the perception on these guys.

As for Tyson Jackson: He isn't worth the 15th pick, nor is he worth a first round pick, nor is he worth any pick to the Texans. He plays a lot like Anthony Weaver or Marcus Spears (also from LSU). He projects pretty easily to a 3-4 DE. He is very strong at the POA and gets good leverage. He is not that explosive and he lacks advanced pass rushing moves. He has a wide base and a large frame. He has had trouble getting up the field in a vert. fashion. He should be a mid-late 2nd round pick to a 3-4 team (IMO).

Zach Potter: He isn't worth the 15th pick in round one at least, nor is he a first round talent. Potter is going to be a late round guy. Think like 6th-undrafted range.

There is also no guarentee that Orakpo is gone by 15, and especially not for Michael Johnson. Each player (as with 99% of draft eligible players) has their flaws.
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Old 01-07-2009   #7
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Default Re: DE's entering the draft

I think the only reason most of the players may be gone by our pick is because we're selecting #15... not because they are true bonafide nfl stars already. The top of this draft seems to be pretty fluid, moreso than in recent years. All these players have their flaws. I would say Aaron Curry and Malcolm Jenkins are to two 'studs' of any of the players. Most throw Orakpo in there but I'm not even sure he's going to be such a great 4-3 DE. He's awesome no doubt but I would not trade up for him. Lots of potential homeruns and lots of potential busts in the top 10 this year. These teams ahead of us need some OL help so I'd suspect the top LT's to be gone soley for that reason. Michael Oher is a guy that could go #1 overall or could fall to our pick, Greg Hardy has 1st round talent but how the last of the season played out, I see him falling- I'd wait for him with our 2nd rd pick before taking him at 15.
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Old 01-07-2009   #8
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Default Re: DE's entering the draft

I've also been thinking that Bob McNair will probably be hesitant to take another high draft pick/high pay check on the D-line especially at DE since Weaver is still under contract for another 2 years and cutting him would mean adding lots of dead money to the payroll. Bob don't want to pay guys millions to sit on their butts. Also with a new DC coming in and most of our guys being young on the D-line they might want to wait and see what the new DC and assistants can do with our existing players.

If we don't get a DE in the 1st round then Greg Hardy MIGHT be available in the 2nd round. As for Mays, I think that he'll be gone by the time we pick at #15, I think that Denver will take him before us. Realisticly, Everette Brown, Michael Johnson, or Greg Hardy could be our pick for DE at #15 and Mays will most likely be gone as well. Taking the BPA on defense route could be our pick but if none of the great players falls to us at #15 then a trade down could be a real possibility. It wouldn't surprise me if we took a CB or OLB in the 1st round either. Honestly with a new DC coming in anything is possible.
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Old 01-07-2009   #9
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Default Re: DE's entering the draft

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
I think the only reason most of the players may be gone by our pick is because we're selecting #15... not because they are true bonafide nfl stars already. The top of this draft seems to be pretty fluid, moreso than in recent years. All these players have their flaws. I would say Aaron Curry and Malcolm Jenkins are to two 'studs' of any of the players. Most throw Orakpo in there but I'm not even sure he's going to be such a great 4-3 DE. He's awesome no doubt but I would not trade up for him. Lots of potential homeruns and lots of potential busts in the top 10 this year. These teams ahead of us need some OL help so I'd suspect the top LT's to be gone soley for that reason. Michael Oher is a guy that could go #1 overall or could fall to our pick, Greg Hardy has 1st round talent but how the last of the season played out, I see him falling- I'd wait for him with our 2nd rd pick before taking him at 15.
All valid points. I would love for Aaron Curry to slip to us in the first round. He would easily be worth using our 1st round pick on. We need a DE or a S more, but Curry would be totally worth the pick. I doubt that he would slip that far though.
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Old 01-07-2009   #10
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Default Re: DE's entering the draft

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Yeah, I think we HAVE to go DE and S with our first two picks. It just depends on who is there on the board and who is off as to who we pick first.

I don't think that there will be any way that Orakpo slips that far though. He will be a work out warrior in the combine and will stun the scouts I can assure you. If that situation were to come though where he is that close I would totally trade up for him if it meant a 5th rounder to give up, but I think it would be more like a 3rd. That would be tough to give up.

Let's say that we get Mays with our first pick or even do the trade down thing and get Moore like you suggested earlier later in the first, then what DE's do you think could be available in the mid 2nd round that would be worth taking with that pick?
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...xpos&order=ASC
I am researching Brandon Graham.
http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73...=1&nid=1780323
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncf/recru...ruitId%3d22093

Looks as if he is terrific at ILB and could be DE in passing situations.
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Old 01-07-2009   #11
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Default Re: DE's entering the draft

The safety class is pretty deep this year. So I think targeting a DE with our first pick is a good plan. I'll take a gamble on a guy like Brown or Orakpo with the 15th pick. They may not be ideal for the 4-3, but they sure as hell are better than Weaver.

If Brown, Orakpo, and Mays are all gone I'd go with BJ Raji (DT/NT).
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Old 01-07-2009   #12
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Default Re: DE's entering the draft

Don't really want Michael Johnson. As Wolf pointed out he seems like he is a lazy player and takes plays off even though he has the skill and size. Every report and article I read on Johnson the laziness and lack of effort criticisms seem to be consistent with what Wolf pointed out. We don't need another guy like that.

Graham seems rather interesting though. Good read up right there on him and he sounds like someone we could use. The more I think about it, I really wouldn't mind at all if we could find a really good pass rushing Outside LB to help the pass rush. Look at how many great pass rushing LB's there were this year and the impact they had like Harrison, Porter, Lewis, Suggs, and Woodley. If we can't get a stud at DE in the first and Mays is gone I wouldn't mind it if we drafted a really good pass rushing LB. That was the idea with Roosevelt Colvin any way, and although Colven was a bust for us I liked the idea that Smith had in getting him. It just didn't work out because he wasn't healthy.
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Old 01-07-2009   #13
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Default Re: DE's entering the draft

My ideal 1st day draft would be 1st rd: BJ Raji and 2nd rd: Greg Hardy.

That would give us Mario--Amobi--Raji--Hardy
That would give us wiggle room to cut some players or put them at backup where they belong. Okam and Raji alternating would be great. Hardy may start as a situational pass rusher and ease his way into the starter role by midseason or the end maybe?

With the new DC, they may be able to do some work with Dunta, Reeves, Bennett and Molden as our CBs. A safety may be able to be found in the 3rd?
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Old 01-07-2009   #14
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Default Re: DE's entering the draft

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Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan View Post
My ideal 1st day draft would be 1st rd: BJ Raji and 2nd rd: Greg Hardy.

That would give us Mario--Amobi--Raji--Hardy
That would give us wiggle room to cut some players or put them at backup where they belong. Okam and Raji alternating would be great. Hardy may start as a situational pass rusher and ease his way into the starter role by midseason or the end maybe?

With the new DC, they may be able to do some work with Dunta, Reeves, Bennett and Molden as our CBs. A safety may be able to be found in the 3rd?
That would be pretty sweet if we got Raji and Hardy.
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Old 01-07-2009   #15
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Default Re: DE's entering the draft

I'd rather not have two rookies starting on the D-line next yr...
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Old 01-07-2009   #16
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Default Re: DE's entering the draft

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I'd rather not have two rookies starting on the D-line next yr...
What? Are you stoopid? Look how great it worked out for the Jags this ye...

oh...

waittasecond...

nevermind.
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Old 01-07-2009   #17
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Default Re: DE's entering the draft

Zierlein thinks that Orakpo is going to go in the late first or second round.
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Old 01-07-2009   #18
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Default Re: DE's entering the draft

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Zierlein thinks that Orakpo is going to go in the late first or second round.
Zierlein is wrong.
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Old 01-07-2009   #19
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Default Re: DE's entering the draft

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I'd rather not have two rookies starting on the D-line next yr...
That's a very good point and I pretty much feel the same way. Hardy would probably be a situational pass rusher for a while, not a starter. Raji would be an instant starter on this team. With Okam and TJ backing him up.

Look at our offensive line though last year. Brisiel started all of 4 games before this season and we had a rookie left tackle. So I wouldn't put it against this staff to run the most talented players we had out there... then again it's not like those two were playing right next to each other. I would think though, that it'd be less risky to have those rookies on the DL than to have them on the OL.
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Old 01-07-2009   #20
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Default Re: DE's entering the draft

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Zierlein is wrong.
Maybe. We'll have to wait and see
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