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Old 01-07-2005   #41
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Originally Posted by trijcomm
Simplistic reasoning again -- and even that's a little flawed. You make it sound like presto, change-o, 4-12 to 12-4 -- it was that easy! But you fail to recognize that it took nine long years to go from the heights and then plummet to the dregs and slowly climb out again. It takes a long, long time to go from level to level in the NFL -- something a lot of folks around here seem to have a problem fathoming. And as for Seau, it wasn't like he was released because he couldn't cut it anymore, now, was he?
And you evidently don't try rational reasoning at all--so the only way for a team to make the same results leap the Chargers did is to have had the same 20 years of history before--that is beyond whacked. And no I am not saying it is easy to go from 4-12 to 12-4--what I am saying is there are plenty of examples of improvement like that by teams demonstrate that your assertion that the Browns game proves we should shoot for 8-8 next year and play-offs are completely unrealistic is completely detached from NFL reality.

What the heck is your point with Seau in the 1st place? You acted at first like he left in disgust, which (a) is wrong and (b) has nothing to do with the Chargers' improvement this year.
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Old 01-07-2005   #42
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Wow this is the most negative i've seen this board in a couple years.

you guys are such Debbie Downers...


There is still a draft where we have 4 first day picks... Free agency where we have no major players up for free agency, so the bulk of our team will be back next year.
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Old 01-07-2005   #43
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And you have no reasoning at all--so the only way for a team to make the same results leap the Chargers did is to have had the same 20 years of history before--that is beyond whacked.

What the heck is your point with Seau in the 1st place? You acted at first like he left in disgust, which (a) is wrong and (b) has nothing to do with the Chargers' improvement this year.
Um, nothing comes easy in this world or the NFL and for you to expect a team that is just three years removed from its birth to jump from being a 7-9 team that just lost to one of the worst teams in the NFL a matter of days ago into a playoff contender next year presto, change-o is, well, "beyond whacked." And the point I was getting in regards to Seau is he was around for the lean years when he played his heart out for a losing team and knows exactly what it's like to go through the lean, tough years and see the team finally change things around.
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Old 01-07-2005   #44
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Originally Posted by trijcomm
Um, nothing comes easy in this world or the NFL and for you to expect a team that is just three years removed from its birth to jump from being a 7-9 team that just lost to one of the worst teams in the NFL a matter of days ago into a playoff contender next year presto, change-o is, well, "beyond whacked."
Look at what the Panthers AND the Jaguars did in their early years as an expansion team. And you're saying the Texans can't do the same?
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Old 01-07-2005   #45
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Wow this is the most negative i've seen this board in a couple years.

you guys are such Debbie Downers...


There is still a draft where we have 4 first day picks... Free agency where we have no major players up for free agency, so the bulk of our team will be back next year.
It is NOT a negative statement to say I don't expect the team to jump from 7-9 three years removed from its birth after losing to the worst team in the league at home less than a week ago into the playoffs in one year! In fact, to say that they WILL make that jump could be VERY detrimental to the team and its future. After all, using the Berkleyan philosophical approach, if everybody were to unrealistically expect that and it didn't happen, then Capers would be fired before the cake was baked and we'd have to start all over again. It is a very dangerous game to set expectations too high.
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Old 01-07-2005   #46
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Look at what the Panthers AND the Jaguars did in their early years as an expansion team. And you're saying the Texans can't do the same?
Umm, look at one of the lead stories on this website. Capers -- who coached the Panthers to that achievement, by the way -- is NOT looking for that same kind of quick move. He has always looked for slow, steady growth and that's the way he is approaching it. And if you will recall, following the Panthers and Jags brief appearance in the playoffs, they collapsed for several years before they began to emerge out of the muck just recently. Those were also the days that the two expansion teams got sweetheart draft deals from the league -- something neither the Browns nor the Texans ended up getting in their first drafts.
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Old 01-07-2005   #47
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Originally Posted by trijcomm
Umm, look at one of the lead stories on this website. Capers -- who coached the Panthers to that achievement, by the way -- is NOT looking for that same kind of quick move. He has always looked for slow, steady growth and that's the way he is approaching it. And if you will recall, following the Panthers and Jags brief appearance in the playoffs, they collapsed for several years before they began to emerge out of the muck just recently. Those were also the days that the two expansion teams got sweetheart draft deals from the league -- something neither the Browns nor the Texans ended up getting in their first drafts.
Most of us don't even need to look at it to know that you're right about that, but 9 wins next year is still something I expect. 8 wins next year is TOO slow. Eventually, this team WILL regress for a while, so they need to get somewhere before that starts to happen. If you only win one extra game every year, it takes way too many of those years to get where you want to be. Let's try to do it while Carr isn't retired yet.
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Old 01-07-2005   #48
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Most of us don't even need to look at it to know that you're right about that, but 9 wins next year is still something I expect. 8 wins next year is TOO slow. Eventually, this team WILL regress for a while, so they need to get somewhere before that starts to happen. If you only win one extra game every year, it takes way too many of those years to get where you want to be. Let's try to do it while Carr isn't retired yet.
Um, if they improve their record by one game every year, they hit nine wins by 2006. That's just one year later than this coming season. That isn't bad at all.
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Old 01-08-2005   #49
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9 wins in the fifth year of a 5 year plan? I think Jerry Glanville could've done better.
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Old 01-08-2005   #50
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9 wins in the fifth year of a 5 year plan? I think Jerry Glanville could've done better.
We're talking the first five years of a team's existence -- starting from SCRATH!
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Old 01-09-2005   #51
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Default Taking a step in the right direction

I would have loved to see the Texans go 500, unfortunately they came up short. The plus side, they are 2 games better than last year, and 3 better from the 1st season. They are definitely on the up. I play it in my head all the time w/ games they should have won this season - I figured them at 11-5. And it's like the guy that started the thread said, Any given Sunday any one can be beat.
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Old 01-10-2005   #52
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Either way, we improved in three different areas I wanted to see us improve in. That is we won two in a row and we did it quite a few times this season, We also had two more wins than last year and we went 4-2 in our division in which we swept two division opponents. I am going to stick to that and hope the team fixes the other little problems like the Oline and Dline.
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Old 01-10-2005   #53
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I would have loved to see the Texans go 500, unfortunately they came up short. The plus side, they are 2 games better than last year, and 3 better from the 1st season. They are definitely on the up. I play it in my head all the time w/ games they should have won this season - I figured them at 11-5. And it's like the guy that started the thread said, Any given Sunday any one can be beat.
BZZZZ!!! Time for a reality check! The next time you think about 11-5, think "Cleveland." That should bring you back to reality. The next time you think "they are definitely on the up," think about the six sacks the Texans suffered at home from a team that had only 26 in their first 15 games and had lost 9 straight games and were just playing out the string. Yep, on any given Sunday, it has been proven that a team like the Browns can beat the Texans. So how in the world do you come up with 11-5? You should expect 8-8 and have a party if they get their next year.
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Old 01-11-2005   #54
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Originally Posted by Vinny
It takes about 3 years to turn an existing franchise around. I think it takes about 5 years to totally build one from scratch. We are going into year 4. We are right on pace.

Seau was released because he wasn't cutting it anymore? Yes, that is pretty accurate. He lost a step and was part of why the Chargers defense was getting old and exploited. His big complaint his last years at SD was he busted his assignments too often trying to do too much and he wasn't the player he was before so the results were not the same.
Vinny, you keep repeating over and over that it takes 5 years to build an NFL team from scratch. And 3 years to turn an existing franchise around? I respectfully disagree with you. I think it can be done in 3 years and 1 to 3 years. The latter depends on a lot of variables. Each situation would be different. The same goes for building a team from scratch. Different approaches will yield different results. We obviously didn't put the offensive line high on our priorities. Please don't bring up Boselli.
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Old 01-11-2005   #55
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Originally Posted by bckey
Vinny, you keep repeating over and over that it takes 5 years to build an NFL team from scratch. And 3 years to turn an existing franchise around? I respectfully disagree with you. I think it can be done in 3 years and 1 to 3 years. The latter depends on a lot of variables. Each situation would be different. The same goes for building a team from scratch. Different approaches will yield different results. We obviously didn't put the offensive line high on our priorities. Please don't bring up Boselli.
I'll agree that it depends on the situation as far as how long it takes to build a franchise, however our faculty as said from the outset they their plan spanned 5 years. That's not to say that they wouldn't have a chance to go to the playoffs sooner, but they have been making personnel decisions based on a plan that should make us serious contenders in our fifth year. You can't fault them until that plan has obviously failed, IMO, which will take two more years.
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Old 01-11-2005   #56
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2005 will be agreat year to be a Texans fan,I believe we have improved every year,that is my stand,has been my stand,and will be my stand until someone can prove me wrong,and proving me wrong would have to be the opposite of this definition of progress:pro·gress

n [pró grèss, prō grèss]
1. improvement: gradual development or improvement of something
2. motion toward something: movement forward or onward
3. (plural pro·gress·es) royal tour: an official royal tour (archaic)


v [prə gréss, prō gréss] (past pro·gressed, past participle pro·gressed, present participle pro·gress·ing, 3rd person present singular pro·gress·es)
1. vi improve: to develop or advance continuously
2. vi move along: to move forward or onward
3. vt help complete something: to bring something toward completion


[15th century. From Latin progressus , the past participle of progredi “to go forward,” from gradi “to walk.”]
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Old 01-11-2005   #57
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Vinny, you keep repeating over and over that it takes 5 years to build an NFL team from scratch. And 3 years to turn an existing franchise around? I respectfully disagree with you. I think it can be done in 3 years and 1 to 3 years. The latter depends on a lot of variables. Each situation would be different. The same goes for building a team from scratch. Different approaches will yield different results. We obviously didn't put the offensive line high on our priorities. Please don't bring up Boselli.
I do think it takes about 4 drafts & FA signings to field a playoff team from scratch. Most drafts produce one to three starters. There are 22 starters on a football team plus you need high caliber reserves to man your special teams. This isn't the NBA where you can get 2 players and remake your team completely, or MLB where you can sign 2 pitchers and a slugger and turn your team around on the field.

If you think the 2003 Texans had talent on par with any of the playoff teams you are sadly mistaken. We had no depth at all, had journeymen starters at several positions, and still needed to upgrade at least a dozen roster spots. No way you can compete in two years from scratch, unless you get incredibly lucky or have a free agent situation like the Panthers had several years ago. In 2004 we are statistically middle of the pack in many key areas. In three years we have built a team that is good as half the NFL. I'm pretty ok with that.
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Old 01-11-2005   #58
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I think the best way to measure a teams progress is how they compete on
the road against a good team, good being defined for this purpose as
a team with a winning record. So when you examine our efforts against the
Broncos, Colts, & Jets you get a pretty good feel of where we are and it looks like we got a lot of work ahead of us.
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Old 01-11-2005   #59
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Originally Posted by nunusguy
I think the best way to measure a teams progress is how they compete on
the road against a good team, good being defined for this purpose as
a team with a winning record. So when you examine our efforts against the
Broncos, Colts, & Jets you get a pretty good feel of where we are and it looks like we got a lot of work ahead of us.

Gee did you forget the jags?or do you have your own definition of a winning record also.I am not sure where you got your measuring tape,but progress is defined by the dictionary we read it from,and nothing else.Sure we need more work,but that doesn't nullify the progress being made along the road,don't forget patience is a virtue,i believe it does take more than 3 years to put together a competittive NFL team from scratch.Bronco's,colts,&jets were dissapointing losses on the road.But since the colts lost at arrowhead,and the broncos lost at arrowhead,I just can't find any reasoning in your arguement,I mean we beat the chiefs at arrowhead,so i will stick with the definition i grew up reading as progress.
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Old 01-11-2005   #60
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Originally Posted by brickmantexanfan
Gee did you forget the jags?
You got me good man, because I did completely forget about the road
game against the Jags. I dunno, they do have a winning record (is it 9-7?),
some how they just don't seem like a good team. So let me weasel out of
my origional premise and amend it to this - our progress is defined as to how
we perform against playoff teams. But you can't include the Vikes, a team
that we had a strong second half comback against - the NFC conference
doesn't count it's so lousy, the Sooners could play the NFC tough. Is that
still too arbitrary ? Yea, but it's fun to make up you're own rules.
We did play so much better last year against playoff teams - split with the
SB teams. That effort was not there this year, even with few injuries.
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