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Old 01-07-2005   #21
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Originally Posted by trijcomm
The team improved, but they didn't REALLY improve if they got blown out more than they did last year
Not singling you out here, but this is a statement which has been made by several people and doesn't quite add up:

2003
New Orleans 31-10
Kansas City 42-14
Tennessee 38-17
Jaxonville 27-0
Tampa Bay 16-3

2004
Denver 31-13
Indy 49-14
Jets 29-7

Don't see how that adds up to getting blown out more.
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Old 01-07-2005   #22
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With a given level of talent a team's record can be expected to be within a certain range, +- a win or two during a given season. In retrospect, this team could have finished anywhere in the 6-9 win range with the talent they have based on how the ball bounced in some of their games. That's why a win over Cleveland on Sunday wouldn't have proven that the team was markedly better with 8 wins than they are with 7. Obviously they would have had a better record but this team is now at the point (with 7 or 8 wins this year) that the next level is wild card regardless of how many wins that takes.
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Old 01-07-2005   #23
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Originally Posted by hou059
I hardly think that an 8-8 record shows we are on the rise. Yes, it would look good but three wins in a row and two of those wins against sub-par teams doesn't say allot to me. The way they played from behind against K.C. and Minnesota told me all I needed to know. Those games told me that The Texans are on the rise. Sending Andre Johnson to the Pro-Bowl says we are on the rise and playing two rookies on defense one of who is respected and though so highly of by other teams tells me that we are on the rise. We have allot of fight in us and we have the talent to do great things but putting it all together will come with time. Being 8-8 doesn't mean we are winners but does it mean we aren't losers? I mean we still finished thrid in our division and missed the play-offs. I don't agree with people's statements about having an 8-8 record. I think we finished strong, we had a meltdown in week 17 but overall we played well and surprised a few people along the way. Plus we still got a really high draft pick for next year, so it's looking good and honestly, unless we were going to the playoffs I wouldn't trade our 7-9 season for an 8-8 or 9-7 record.


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Old 01-07-2005   #24
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Originally Posted by trijcomm
If the Texans won 10 straight and then lost their last six, then obviously they would be headed in the wrong direction -- doncha think?
No. The Chargers started hot last year and totally collapsed. They are a playoff team this year.

Right now I think my expectations for next year are 9-7 plus or minus one game either way. This may change...but I doubt it.
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Old 01-07-2005   #25
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With a given level of talent a team's record can be expected to be within a certain range, +- a win or two during a given season. In retrospect, this team could have finished anywhere in the 6-9 win range with the talent they have based on how the ball bounced in some of their games. That's why a win over Cleveland on Sunday wouldn't have proven that the team was markedly better with 8 wins than they are with 7. Obviously they would have had a better record but this team is now at the point (with 7 or 8 wins this year) that the next level is wild card regardless of how many wins that takes.
I must disagree. One game means a heckuva lot in the NFL -- after all, it's meant the difference between a trip to the Super Bowl and staying at home for the Eagles on several occasions now and the difference between simply being a contender and actually achieving something. That's what makes the 8-8 record a magic pinnacle for the Texans. 8-8 would mean that the Texans were no longer losers -- especially when a win would have made them going out on a three-game winning streak, despite the obvious weaknesses they have. But the game against Cleveland magnified their weaknesses and was much more than "just another game." And as far as saying this team "is now at the point (with 7 or 8 wins this year) " ... uh, sorry. They had seven, not eight. Heck, I remember last year folks saying "The Team" could have been 9-7 if things would have shaken out a bit better for them. Yeah, but they forgot to say that the games the Texans won were all close and they very well could have finished 0-16 as well. "The Team" is still a couple of steps away from wildcard level -- they have too many soft spots that can't be solved in just one off-season. Next year "The Team" should shoot for that elusive 8-8. If that's accomplished, 2006 should be the year for a winning record. It isn't fair to expect this team with so many weaknesses to contend for a playoff spot next year in just their fourth year of existence when they still have so much work to do -- which the Browns so generously pointed out to us last week. That expectation level is way, way too high -- especially in light of what happened last week. It would be folly to dismiss that as "just another game" as doing so would lull you into false expectations that in all probabitly will not be met.
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Old 01-07-2005   #26
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We'll agree to disagree then. With another solid draft and another year of free agency, I think they are already at the point where wild card (I'm thinking 9-7 when I say that) is their next step in the growth chart.....not based so much on what the Browns game did or didn't mean, I'm looking back at the entire body of work this season. They are what they are. A 7-9 team and it's not unreasonable to expect a 9-7 record next year, especially when you see other teams like Buffalo, the Jets, Jax, San Diego, and Atlanta doing it from one season to the next.

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Old 01-07-2005   #27
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Originally Posted by trijcomm
"The Team" is still a couple of steps away from wildcard level -- they have too many soft spots that can't be solved in just one off-season. Next year "The Team" should shoot for that elusive 8-8.
Yeah, I am sure that is what the Chargers coaching staff told themselves last year. 4-12 to 12-4. And don't even try the "they didn't have as many soft spots" argument--after all their off-season moves people still expected them to be doormats--questionable QB just filling time for the rookie, very poor D going to a new system, completely revamped OL. Yeah, the Texans should shoot for 8-8. Is it reasonable to predict 12-4, most likely not, but shooting for 8-8 is even more unreasonable.
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Old 01-07-2005   #28
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We'll agree to disagree then.
Just don't get too disappointed when your expectations aren't meant. It's important that we not make unrealistic demands on a fourth-year team. How we can be talking playoffs nest year after last Sunday is way, way beyond me.
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Old 01-07-2005   #29
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gotta be realistic. i havent done any conclusive reasearch on the matter but i would estimate our opponent win percentage was upwards of .700 our losses were comprised mostly of teams like Indy, NY, denver, minnesota(with healthy moss) Green Bay, San diego these are all teams that could do a little damage in the playoffs. we gave Indy their best game of the late season, we had a winnable game against san diego.....we were close as hell against GB and Minnesota. Now i know we had a complete let down game against cleveland, but waht this tells me is taht our team is not Talented enough to cruise and win against ANY team, so in order for us to do things like play with Indy, sweep JAX and Tennessee we had to play with a hell of a lot of heart because there are a lot of holes on this team. in my opinion the browns game showed that we overachieved against probably the toughest schedule in the league. like everyone else i was so amped for an 8-8 season, but in a way the browns game showed us a little. that we are still a fledgling team doing all the right things thus far. i like the base we have going right now. lets sign some f'ing o linemen, draft a stud WR...the defense is improving steadily on its own keep them off the field with a clock eating offese with two badass recievers and QB protection we'll win a lot more than 7 games
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Old 01-07-2005   #30
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Originally Posted by trijcomm
Just don't get too disappointed when your expectations aren't meant. It's important that we not make unrealistic demands on a fourth-year team. How we can be talking playoffs nest year after last Sunday is way, way beyond me.
My expectations this season were 8-8/7-9. They pretty much nailed it. Next year they will be in the 9-7 area. I've been one of the biggest critics of unrealistic expectations over the last three seasons so I get that.

How we can be talking about playoffs after Sunday? Look at Sunday as 1/16 of the total body of work that's how. And look at the 7-9 record.

But anything can happen. A few key injuries here or there and we could have another 7 win season - or worse. Like Casserly said this morning, next season they start all over at zero wins again so it's not like 7 wins is automatic - but the general trend I see leads me to believe that they are within striking distance now of 9-7 and a possible wild card.

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Old 01-07-2005   #31
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I must disagree. One game means a heckuva lot in the NFL -- after all, it's meant the difference between a trip to the Super Bowl and staying at home for the Eagles on several occasions now and the difference between simply being a contender and actually achieving something. That's what makes the 8-8 record a magic pinnacle for the Texans. 8-8 would mean that the Texans were no longer losers -- especially when a win would have made them going out on a three-game winning streak, despite the obvious weaknesses they have. But the game against Cleveland magnified their weaknesses and was much more than "just another game." And as far as saying this team "is now at the point (with 7 or 8 wins this year) " ... uh, sorry. They had seven, not eight. Heck, I remember last year folks saying "The Team" could have been 9-7 if things would have shaken out a bit better for them. Yeah, but they forgot to say that the games the Texans won were all close and they very well could have finished 0-16 as well. "The Team" is still a couple of steps away from wildcard level -- they have too many soft spots that can't be solved in just one off-season. Next year "The Team" should shoot for that elusive 8-8. If that's accomplished, 2006 should be the year for a winning record. It isn't fair to expect this team with so many weaknesses to contend for a playoff spot next year in just their fourth year of existence when they still have so much work to do -- which the Browns so generously pointed out to us last week. That expectation level is way, way too high -- especially in light of what happened last week. It would be folly to dismiss that as "just another game" as doing so would lull you into false expectations that in all probabitly will not be met.
Alright, you have made your point. In your opinion, a two game improvement is regression because we didn't finish 8-8...and in my opinion I am saying anything less than a play-off berth in year four is a regression becasue that's the plan all all along. Five year plan- is to make strides every year and be a Super Bowl Contender by year five. Based on the talent The Texans have and the improvements they will make this off-season, they should be in the playy-off hunt to the very end next year. 8-8 gets no respect in the AFC, hell, 10-6 gets no respect in the AFC. Bottom line is the Texans won't be respected until they make the play-offs and start to play with more consistancy...all in due time!
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Old 01-07-2005   #32
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Alright, you have made your point. In your opinion, a two game improvement is regression because we didn't finish 8-8...and in my opinion I am saying anything less than a play-off berth in year four is a regression becasue that's the plan all all along. Five year plan- is to make strides every year and be a Super Bowl Contender by year five. Based on the talent The Texans have and the improvements they will make this off-season, they should be in the playy-off hunt to the very end next year. 8-8 gets no respect in the AFC, hell, 10-6 gets no respect in the AFC. Bottom line is the Texans won't be respected until they make the play-offs and start to play with more consistancy...all in due time!
Wait a minute! I never said a two-game improvement is regression! I've said many times that it is obviously an improvement. It's the most wins "The Team" ever got! But it still fell short of that magic non-loser record. An 8-8 record in year four would hardly be regression since that would be an improvement. Expecting a team to make the playoffs in just their fourth year in existence when they have never reached the .500 mark is not only unrealistic -- it's not fair. Chances are they won't reach that mark and you will be unjustly upset. 8-8 DOES get respect if you are a fourth-year franchise. I will agree they must get consistent or they won't even hit .500 next year. After all, since it's been made plain to the league that "The Team" can't even effectively block four guys with six or seven, what's "The Team" gonna do when they start blitzing on a more regular basis?
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Old 01-07-2005   #33
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trijcomm.....with your theory, saying the Texans would have gotten a 10-6 season and just missed the playoffs......much like the Dolphins last year and how they just missed the playoffs having a "fantastic" season in your eyes....seeing as how your classify a team according to their record. This year the Dolphins were "putrid" for the most part of the season, were they not? Those Dolphins fans could have chanted, "We're not losers", or you can evern bring the Benglas into the equation as well. They had an 8-8 season and finally were getting a MNF game, their first in 15 yrs. Their season didn't turn out so well. What good would it do us to get an 8-8 season, be called winners, but next season our record comes up even shorter from 8-8 than it did this year.

As hou59 said, "look at the big picture". An 8-8 record isn't going to do anything for us....time, experience, player progression....things that a record like 7-9 ("loser") cannot ential, will! This team has improved in several areas. Sure they weren't consistent but they have met goals the team has been wanting to achieve. There are many more but several were achieved this season. Sure we stumbled some games but damnit....that doesn't take away the fact that this team is growing. One win difference from 8-8 really doesn't make a difference in this case.

If the team would be regressing itself to only meeting the goal they had set this year of making 8-8 to making 8-8 next season.....then that would be the Texans and the coaching staff just settling for that record cause in my eyes....I think they can do a lot better. Even if they did only win 2 games more this year than last....I saw the Texans do a lot of improvement. Who knows.....maybe next year we beat Indy, might even sweep them but don't sweep the Titans and Jags...........would that be an improvement to you? It would to me. Sure we didn't sweep the Titans and Jags again this '05 season and that might be a "regression" to you, but us finally beating the Colts is another improvement, "milestone", or what have you.

I've held conversations with others from different cities and my friend.......the Texans are known as warriors believe it or not.
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Old 01-07-2005   #34
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If a wacked out Browns organization can go 9-7 and make the wild card in their 4th year, then there's no reason for the Texans or Texans fans to set lesser goals - especially given their 7-9 record this season and steady improvement since year one.
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Old 01-07-2005   #35
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trijcomm.....with your theory, saying the Texans would have gotten a 10-6 season and just missed the playoffs......much like the Dolphins last year and how they just missed the playoffs having a "fantastic" season in your eyes....seeing as how your classify a team according to their record. This year the Dolphins were "putrid" for the most part of the season did they not. Those Dolphins fans could have chanted, "We're not losers", or you can evern bring the Benglas into the equation as well. They had an 8-8 season and finally were getting a MNF game, their first in 15 yrs. Their season didn't turn out so well. What good would it do us to get an 8-8 season, be called winners, but next season our record comes up even shorter from 8-8 than it did this year.

As hou59 said, "look at the big picture". An 8-8 record isn't going to do anything for us....time, experience, player progression....things that a record like 7-9 ("loser") cannot ential, will! This team has improved in several areas. Sure they weren't consitent but they have met goals the team has been wanting to achieve. There are many more but several were achieved this season. Sure we stumbled some games but damnit....that doesn't take away the fact that this team is growing. One win difference from 8-8 really doesn't make a difference in this case.

If the team would be regressing itself to only meeting the goal they had set this year of making 8-8 to making 8-8 next season.....then that would be the Texans and the coaching staff just settling for that record cause in my eyes....I think they can do a lot better. Even if they did only win 2 games more this year than last....I saw the Texans do a lot of improvement. Who knows.....maybe next year we beat Indy, might even sweep them but don't sweep the Titans and Jags...........would that be an improvement to you? It would to me. Sure we didn't sweep the Titans and Jags again this '05 season and that might be a "regression" to you, but us finally beating the Colts is another improvement, "milestone", or what have you.

I've held conversations with others from different cities and my friend.......the Texans are known as warriors believe it or not.
If the Texans went 10-6 this year, it would have been a fantastic season -- playoffs or no! You compare "The Team" to the Dolphins and Bengals but those comparisons fail when you are talking about a team that's just three years old. Like I said, a 7-9 record shows improvement but an 8-8 record shows much more improvement. Yes, it's just one game, but the fact that "The Team" hit that magic non-loser mark is indeed more of an accomplishment. It shows we didn't lose more games than we won. One game in this case makes a HUGE difference -- especially when that game crystalized the many weaknesses "The Team" still must deal with. You seem to believe "The Team" accomplished a lot more than they actually did this year. This is dangerous because it could mean you are expecting more from "The Team" than you should be. They still have one step more to achieve before being considered a contender. That one loss to Cleveland did really set them back possibly a whole year because it magnified "The Team's" weaknesses and proved that we couldn't assume we could "get by" without addressing them this coming season.
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Old 01-07-2005   #36
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If the Texans went 10-6 this year, it would have been a fantastic season -- playoffs or no! You compare "The Team" to the Dolphins and Bengals but those comparisons fail when you are talking about a team that's just three years old. Like I said, a 7-9 record shows improvement but an 8-8 record shows much more improvement. Yes, it's just one game, but the fact that "The Team" hit that magic non-loser mark is indeed more of an accomplishment. It shows we didn't lose more games than we won. One game in this case makes a HUGE difference -- especially when that game crystalized the many weaknesses "The Team" still must deal with. You seem to believe "The Team" accomplished a lot more than they actually did this year. This is dangerous because it could mean you are expecting more from "The Team" than you should be. They still have one step more to achieve before being considered a contender. That one loss to Cleveland did really set them back possibly a whole year because it magnified "The Team's" weaknesses and proved that we couldn't assume we could "get by" without addressing them this coming season.
and you seem to believe that "the team" didn't accomplish much! That's your view on the matter and I respect it but stop saying the Browns exposed weakneses...they didn't do anything different than any other team we have played this year. The Browns magnified weakneses? Why, because they are the worst team in the AFC? They are still a pro team, it's not like their roster is filled with highschool kids and college rejects. They do have talented people on that team, they just aren't a good "team". But anywho, lets take a vote, everyone please respond to this. Before the Browns game, who here didn't realize the Texans had problems protecting the QB and rushing the passer...
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Old 01-07-2005   #37
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A loss to an inferior team does not magnify anything. Didn't the Super Bowl Champs lose to the Dolphins? Didn't we hold our own against good defenses and slip with bad defenses. The Texans O-line did great against the Jags Defense and I bet you were chanting the night away after that......but then you were brough back down to earth after this past Sunday's performance. The Texans are aiming at making it to the Super Bowl my friend. Every team is, no matter how bad the team might be. The Panthers are a great example of that. In just two season they went from 1-15 to NFC Champs.

Every year it's every team in a quest to be the best.........not reach a certain record and that's all. No sir, it's Super Bowl where the destination is......not 8-8. At the very least the Texans would want to break the .500 mark but that should not be their goal just beecause Super Bowl is too much to be expected since they went 7-9 this season.
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Old 01-07-2005   #38
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A loss to an inferior team does not magnify anything. Didn't the Super Bowl Champs lose to the Dolphins? Didn't we hold our own against good defenses and slip with bad defenses. The Texans O-line did great against the Jags Defense and I bet you were chanting the night away after that......but then you were brough back down to earth after this past Sunday's performance. The Texans are aiming at making it to the Super Bowl my friend. Every team is, no matter how bad the team might be. The Panthers are a great example of that. In just two season they went from 1-15 to NFC Champs.

Every year it's every team in a quest to be the best.........not reach a certain record and that's all. No sir, it's Super Bowl where the destination is......not 8-8. At the very least the Texans would want to break the .500 mark but that should not be their goal just beecause Super Bowl is too much to be expected just because they went 7-9 this season.

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Old 01-07-2005   #39
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A loss to an inferior team does not magnify anything. Didn't the Super Bowl Champs lose to the Dolphins? Didn't we hold our own against good defenses and slip with bad defenses. The Texans O-line did great against the Jags Defense and I bet you were chanting the night away after that......but then you were brough back down to earth after this past Sunday's performance. The Texans are aiming at making it to the Super Bowl my friend. Every team is, no matter how bad the team might be. The Panthers are a great example of that. In just two season they went from 1-15 to NFC Champs.

Every year it's every team in a quest to be the best.........not reach a certain record and that's all. No sir, it's Super Bowl where the destination is......not 8-8. At the very least the Texans would want to break the .500 mark but that should not be their goal just beecause Super Bowl is too much to be expected since they went 7-9 this season.
As I have said on many occasions, the Pats/Dolphins game cannot be compared to the Browns/Texans game, seeing that the Dolphins were playing at home against hated division rivals and were losing the game most of the way until they came back at the end. None of this was true in the Cleveland game And I wouldn't say the offensive line "did great" against the Jax D -- the offense didn't perform all that well vs. Jax nor did they perform well against Chicago. The destination for this team next year is NOT the Super Bowl -- I think all rational people understand that. I don't expect it and if you expect it, then you will be radically disappointed. Rather, the goal is, and always has been, slow, steady progression. Capers made that clear when he first came in. The next step is .500 -- not the playoffs or the Super Bowl. Hope that doesn't disappoint you.
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Old 01-07-2005   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trijcomm
Rather, the goal is, and always has been, slow, steady progression. Capers made that clear when he first came in. The next step is .500 -- not the playoffs or the Super Bowl. Hope that doesn't disappoint you.
If you think Capers or the players think the next step is .500 you have fallen off your stool and need to call a taxi to the internet bar.
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