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Old 01-01-2009   #21
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Default Re: If we had got a Good Spot

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
I agree with you on the Steeler-Texans game this year. We got beat down. Schaub looked defeated right after the first sack.
I'm not so sure about the Mike Renfro bad call. That was a slugfest where points for us were hard to come by. That TD would have tied the game.
I have to agree with ObsiWan on this one Vinny. That Oiler/Steeler playoff game was an absolute slugfest where every point mattered. Heck just about every time they met was. Those were the real superbowls.
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Old 01-02-2009   #22
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Default Re: If we had got a Good Spot

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Because we got screwed on that spot. And continued our opening drive against Pitsburgh, this season would have been totally different.

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Old 01-02-2009   #23
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Default Re: If we had got a Good Spot

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Originally Posted by False Start On # 69 View Post
If we had a good D-coordinator.........
this.
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Old 01-02-2009   #24
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Default Re: If we had got a Good Spot

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Because we got screwed on that spot. And continued our opening drive against Pitsburgh, this season would have been totally different.

I just don't agree. That game was a total ass beating from the Steelers. I was looking for the upset and it just wasn't there and it wouldn't have been there if we'd gotten the spot.

I think that in 2008 the Texans weren't ready to win games consistently. We aren't talented enough or coached well enough to go out and play 60 minutes of football at our highest possible level week in and week out. Like most young and "kinda" talented teams we were very streaky and very erratic.

Even Rosencopter didn't screw us up for more than a single game, though I totally blame him for that loss. In my eyes the Texans are 8-7 this year and Sage Rosencopter is 0-1 on that one all by himself. In the end though it was just another missed opportunity for a young team that couldn't get on anyones throat and crush the life out of them.
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Old 01-02-2009   #25
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Default Re: If we had got a Good Spot

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I just don't agree. That game was a total ass beating from the Steelers. I was looking for the upset and it just wasn't there and it wouldn't have been there if we'd gotten the spot.

I think that in 2008 the Texans weren't ready to win games consistently. We aren't talented enough or coached well enough to go out and play 60 minutes of football at our highest possible level week in and week out. Like most young and "kinda" talented teams we were very streaky and very erratic.

Even Rosencopter didn't screw us up for more than a single game, though I totally blame him for that loss. In my eyes the Texans are 8-7 this year and Sage Rosencopter is 0-1 on that one all by himself. In the end though it was just another missed opportunity for a young team that couldn't get on anyones throat and crush the life out of them.
I agree the spot doesn't matter. Finishing off that drive with a TD doesn't matter. The Steelers were there to play that day and neither one of our lines was--getting a TD there wasn't going to magically turn 1st game LT Brown into capable of handling pro-bowl Harrison.

That said, I will stand by my position that last year the team played up to get to 8-8 and this year they played down to get to 8-8. I think we see no new starters on O next year and on D a new DC and 2-3 new starters.
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Old 01-02-2009   #26
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Default Re: If we had got a Good Spot

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I agree the spot doesn't matter. Finishing off that drive with a TD doesn't matter. The Steelers were there to play that day and neither one of our lines was--getting a TD there wasn't going to magically turn 1st game LT Brown into capable of handling pro-bowl Harrison.

That said, I will stand by my position that last year the team played up to get to 8-8 and this year they played down to get to 8-8. I think we see no new starters on O next year and on D a new DC and 2-3 new starters.
No defense just is what it is. If we had even a semblence of a defense last year we have a very different season. Looking at our losses I think the following.

@ Pittsburgh I think we lose that no matter what. As you said they were there to play that day.

@ Tennessee we just made too many mistakes to be competitive on offense so I don't think having a competent D would have changed that result. Maybe the score a little but that's about it.

@ Jacksonville I absolutely think that having a real defense would have resulted in a win. Our offense came to play that day but we couldn't stop the other team.

vs Indianapolis we got Rosencoptered. It was as simple as that and our defense wasn't good enough to withstand that big of a momentum turn. I'll always hate Sage for that day.

@ Minnesota we could have been in that game with a better defense. Despite losing Schaub to the cheap shot artist I think we were competitive in the second half but Yogi Bear could run through us. Obviously Adrian Peterson had no trouble doing it.

vs Baltimore I just don't think having a decent defense could have offset the bad day our offense had. We still lose that one without a doubt. We sucked so bad in that fourth quarter.

@ Indianapolis I think we clearly could have been in that game if we'd had a respectable defense.

@ Oakland we again didn't show up. It wasn't really as much the defenses fault as it was a "team effort" to stumble into Oakland expecting to have a win handed to them. Chalk it up to a "the other guys get paid too" lesson.

Now I know the danger of just looking at the losses and ignoring the wins but I see:

1 freakish loss in there that the team frankly didn't deserve (vs Indianapolis).

3 losses that happened because the entire team played pitifully (@ Tennessee, vs Baltimore, and @ Oakland)

3 losses where we got nothing from our defense (@ Jacksonville, @ Minnesota, and @ Indianapolis)

1 loss where we got the snot beat out of us (@ Pittsburgh)

With a good defense an 11-5 record would have been within reach. Not "We would have been..." but it would have been possible. Without Rosencopter 12-4 would have been within reach. Without Rosencopter we would be 9-7 today. That is a "woulda, coulda, shoulda" comment right there. I very much think that except for one man trying to show that he could win the game (that was already won incidentally) that should have been a win.
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Old 01-02-2009   #27
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Default Re: If we had got a Good Spot

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
Looking at our losses I think the following.
I'll concede much of what you said. But, let's take a look at the Texans wins:

Miami - The offense did enough to win this one by itself (despite the 4 turnovers they coughed up). Chalk this one up to sometimes you win because you're more talented than the other guy.

Detroit - That was the highest yardage total the historically inept Lions had all season. Nuff said about the Texans defense.

Cincinnati - That was the Bengals 8th loss to start the season. Any offense could score on them, any defense could stop them. Chalk this one up to one team had a pulse.

Cleveland - Despite Sage Rosenfels valiant attempt to throw away the game, the Texans defense came up with a season high 5 turnovers on their own. The win was on the defense.

Jacksonville - This was one of the more meager games for the offense, in terms of yardage. But, Sage had only one pick, while the defense forced 3 turnovers. A good group effort on both sides of the ball.

Green Bay - The offense piled up a season high yardage total, but turnovers (4) again kept the opponent in the game. The Packers only scored after Texan turnovers. The offense had an outstanding drive to win the game, but the defense got them the ball with a big stop. Another team effort.

Tennessee - In what felt like a must win for the franchise, the offense again moved the ball, but failed to put up points. The defense held down one of the NFL's top rushing attacks, and limited the league's best team to 4 FGs. There's no doubt that the defense was responsible for this big win.

Chicago - Early on, it looked as if both sides of the ball had called it quits. But, a Mario sack energized the team, and the Texans offense began to turn drives into touchdowns. A late Bears score made the game closer than it was. A team effort.

So, we can point to some games where the offense played well enough to win, but couldn't overcome the defense's suckitude. But, the defense bailed out the offense a few times as well. Yes, the defense needs to get better. Much better. But, that alone won't turn the Texans into a playoff team in a very deep AFC. The offense, the special teams, and most definitely the head coaching must improve before we get to see the Texans play into January.
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Old 01-02-2009   #28
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Default Re: If we had got a Good Spot

For an alternative view of those wins, my comments in bold:

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
I'll concede much of what you said. But, let's take a look at the Texans wins:

Miami - The offense did enough to win this one by itself (despite the 4 turnovers they coughed up). Chalk this one up to sometimes you win because you're more talented than the other guy.

In this game they won because of the defense. The defense allowed Miami to score so fast that Schaub actually had enough time left to score the winning drive. Most disgusted I've been with a win.

Detroit - That was the highest yardage total the historically inept Lions had all season. Nuff said about the Texans defense.

The special teams had them pinned, and the defense goons allows a 96 yard touchdown pass to Calvin Johnson. Made me want to puke.

Cincinnati - That was the Bengals 8th loss to start the season. Any offense could score on them, any defense could stop them. Chalk this one up to one team had a pulse.

Cleveland - Despite Sage Rosenfels valiant attempt to throw away the game, the Texans defense came up with a season high 5 turnovers on their own. The win was on the defense.

They had a nine fingered rook quarterback and a guy who got benched. They couldn't do anything right. Thank goodness that Braylon Edwards is a pass dropping machine.

Jacksonville - This was one of the more meager games for the offense, in terms of yardage. But, Sage had only one pick, while the defense forced 3 turnovers. A good group effort on both sides of the ball.

The Jags offense is a joke this year. The defense tried to give it away with the terrible prevent defense.

Green Bay - The offense piled up a season high yardage total, but turnovers (4) again kept the opponent in the game. The Packers only scored after Texan turnovers. The offense had an outstanding drive to win the game, but the defense got them the ball with a big stop. Another team effort.

Even with the turnovers, the offense kept Green Bay off the field. The Texans had great time of possession and kept the ball away from the GB offense. The defensive stop at the end of the game was a miracle.

Tennessee - In what felt like a must win for the franchise, the offense again moved the ball, but failed to put up points. The defense held down one of the NFL's top rushing attacks, and limited the league's best team to 4 FGs. There's no doubt that the defense was responsible for this big win.

Kerry Collins had a very bad day, missing open receivers, including on the key fourth down play. Fisher inexplicably called a low percentage deep play on that one and also passed on doing the potentially game winning field goal. Thankfully, Titans wide receivers wear oven mitts. The Texans dared the Titans to throw the ball, and Collins couldn't deliver that day. Most days he does.

Chicago - Early on, it looked as if both sides of the ball had called it quits. But, a Mario sack energized the team, and the Texans offense began to turn drives into touchdowns. A late Bears score made the game closer than it was. A team effort.

Yet another game where the Texans crushed on time of possession. The Mario sack certainly changed the energy, but the best Texans defense is the one that is on the bench because the Texans offense is chewing time. At first I thought this game was going to go the way of the Viking game--the Texans defense gives up early easy stupid point and makes the offense play from behind...yet again.

So, we can point to some games where the offense played well enough to win, but couldn't overcome the defense's suckitude. But, the defense bailed out the offense a few times as well. Yes, the defense needs to get better. Much better. But, that alone won't turn the Texans into a playoff team in a very deep AFC. The offense, the special teams, and most definitely the head coaching must improve before we get to see the Texans play into January.
I think the offense gets better with more time together and some more depth. Special teams I think can get better once they get a long snapper they can rely on (that was a struggle for most of the season). I think the head coaching improves to through just learning, and even the best coaches in the league do a bit of gooning.

The defense is the biggest question mark in my mind. But yeah, and 8-8 team needs a lot of improvement, and part of that is just getting guys used to playing together. There is going to be continuity on offense, but the defense was a chaos of trying stuff up.
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Old 01-02-2009   #29
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Default Re: If we had got a Good Spot

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
For an alternative view of those wins, my comments in bold:
A worst case scenario can be made from any viewpoint. Which is what you, Herv, and I have done. But, the perception among so many fans is that the defense only needs to become average for the Texans to be a playoff team.

Yeah, I think the offense could improve. But, I also think it has to improve before the Texans reach that goal. The Texans offense ate up most of the weak defenses they faced. The good defenses ate them up. That's an 8-8 offense, to me. And it doesn't matter how much time of possession or 1st downs they rack up. If the Texans continue to pile up the turnovers as they have the past 2 seasons, they'll be home for the playoffs.
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Old 01-02-2009   #30
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Default Re: If we had got a Good Spot

So the bottom line is we cannot stand pat on either side of the ball.
- We need the protection scheme to keep Matt upright and his jersey clean.
- We need the playcalling in the red zone to continue the effectiveness they showed in the Bears game.
- We need to use more 3-WR+TE formations with AJ, KW, and AD on the field at the same time. I respect Anderson for being a hard worker (admittedly, I'm still pissed we picked him instead of Colston), but AD is faster and presents more issues for most of the defenses we see. With Davis' speed on one side and Walter's route running on the other, that puts AJ in the slot where he'll outmatch any nickel CB in the league.
- I want to see a RB who has a "nose for the endzone". I don't care if he's big enough to move the pile or has Emmitt Smith/Marcus Allen type instincts for being slippery enough to find the crease. I just want the job done. Dependably.

Defensively, we all know what spots need upgrading. More dependable/effective pass rush. Replacements for Greenwood & Weaver. A safety to push Ferguson/Wilson for one of those spots - maybe our new DC will actually have a true FS and true SS instead of two "generic" safeties.

We were 8-8. We cannot stand pat anywhere. No one else will.
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Old 01-03-2009   #31
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Default Re: If we had got a Good Spot

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Yeah, I think the offense could improve. But, I also think it has to improve before the Texans reach that goal. The Texans offense ate up most of the weak defenses they faced. The good defenses ate them up. That's an 8-8 offense, to me. And it doesn't matter how much time of possession or 1st downs they rack up. If the Texans continue to pile up the turnovers as they have the past 2 seasons, they'll be home for the playoffs.
Totally correct that the O has to improve as well. The difference I see is most of that improvement can come without starting personnel changes--maybe letting little Shanny be the regular play caller, finding a good complimentary RB and more importantly better consistency by the starters--Brown starting next season better than he ended this one and continuing to improve, Winston having a bounce back year and Schaub finding a way to knock off the turnovers.

An improved D is going to take more, starting obviously at the top with a new DC. Then I think we will also see new starters at 2-3 of DE, DT, S & CB. Jury is still out on Diles at this point so maybe he gets competition as well.
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