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Old 01-01-2009   #1
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Default [Chronic] Coming in '09 for Texans: No Sage Rosenfels

http://blogs.chron.com/jeromesolomon...ns_no_sag.html

Quote:
Don't expect it to happen quickly, but before the Texans crank it up again next season, they will have a new backup quarterback.

The Sage Rosenfels Fan Club might be upset, but this needs to happen, and Gary Kubiak should be smart enough to figure that out. (Or he's at least smart enough to know I'm usually right about these things.)

For one, Rosenfels isn't happy as a backup, so he does stupid things like trying to win the Super Bowl in Week 3 (a la John Elway) against the Colts. Loss.

Secondly, Matt Schaub has proved beyond reasonable doubt — even to a California jury — that he is the better quarterback.

Finally, despite what you have read so many times in so many places, Rosenfels isn't the best backup in the NFL. He just played as well as any backup the year he got to play some. It was a career year and the Texans should have cashed in on it then, especially when the Vikings offered a third-round pick.

You talk about Kubiak being slow to pull the trigger on Richard Smith (bad decision), and slow to hand over the reigns of the offense to Kyle Shanahan (good decision), he and Rick Smith were just flat wrong about not moving Rosenfels when they had the chance.

This isn't hindsight. Were that the case, we would wait until Rosenfels moves on to point out how little the Texans got for him compared to the third-round pick they were offered. Plus, didn't I tell them to take the money and run a year ago?

"... A hard line against trading Sage Rosenfels for a third-round pick is shortsighted thinking, or at least it's conservative thought that could cost the team an opportunity to improve. If Schaub is what they think he is - all indications are if he stays healthy (key word) he is going to be an above average quarterback, who puts up Pro Bowl numbers in a couple of years - Rosenfels isn't as vital as the Texans are making him out to be." - The King, Feb. 29, 2008

With so many washed-out starters in the NFL, experienced backup quarterbacks are not that hard to find. Would the Texans' record have been any worse than 8-8 had they snatched up that third-round pick last year for Rosenfels? Thank you.

They blew that opportunity last offseason; now they'll get less for Rosenfels in a down market.

The last time Rosenfels was traded he went for a seventh-round pick. The Texans will be darn lucky to get a fifth for him, but they have to move him.

I think they owe him that, but you don't make many business decisions for that reason alone. Rosenfels would be so unhappy not getting to compete for a starting spot that he wouldn't be much good here anyway.

He gave all he had, and maybe he deserved more (like starting in front of El Ocho Viejo), but his days as a Texan are done.
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Old 01-01-2009   #2
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Default Re: [Chronic] Coming in '09 for Texans: No Sage Rosenfels

I'm not seeing the reason that Sage has to go.

If he is worthless.. I mean if we won't get anything for him, then all the more reason to let him stay. I'm sure Kubiak was thinking we have an opportunity to get to the post season, if we have someone who can come off the bench and get results.. why go to the well for a former QB who will have to learn a system.

All I want from my back-up, is the desire to be a starter, and the ability to do so. Once he's satisfied with being the back-up, it's time for him to go.

Now if I were Sage, I'd want to stay, unless someone offered me a bonafied opportunity to compete for a starting job. Where is that going to happen?? Tennessee?? SF?? KC??

Barring that, I'd stay in Texas, and wait for my opportunity to showcase what I could do in a system that works for me.
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Old 01-01-2009   #3
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Default Re: [Chronic] Coming in '09 for Texans: No Sage Rosenfels

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I'm not seeing the reason that Sage has to go.
I'm not, either (I'm agreeing with thunderkyss - a sure sign of the impending apocalypse). Sage doesn't hold the meager value he carried into last offseason. The Texans haven't developed a young QB to replace him. Sage isn't a starter, nor is he horrible. And he's still under contract.

Sage is a backup NFL QB, and the Texans need a backup NFL QB. Oh, the "wisdom" of Solomon.
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Old 01-01-2009   #4
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Default Re: [Chronic] Coming in '09 for Texans: No Sage Rosenfels

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
I'm not, either (I'm agreeing with thunderkyss - a sure sign of the impending apocalypse). Sage doesn't hold the meager value he carried into last offseason. The Texans haven't developed a young QB to replace him. Sage isn't a starter, nor is he horrible. And he's still under contract.
Sage is a backup NFL QB, and the Texans need a backup NFL QB. Oh, the "wisdom" of Solomon.

Agreed. It's also nice to have a back up capable of coming in and having your offense not skip a beat. I'm just afraid that the Rosencopter game might have hurt his confidence because he didn't seem like the same QB after that. It was like he had a concussion after that hit but I never heard if he had one or not. Although in the Baltimore game(his worst game as a Texan) he did go against one of the best defensive schemes in the NFL. To not bring him back would be a little silly to me. He is a quality back up and should be here for one more year.
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Old 01-01-2009   #5
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Default Re: [Chronic] Coming in '09 for Texans: No Sage Rosenfels

He'll be here next season...this is just the first of endless mindnumbing articles speculating on all sorts of weird roster moves this off season.
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Old 01-01-2009   #6
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Default Re: [Chronic] Coming in '09 for Texans: No Sage Rosenfels

Well, he wasn't the same after the Colts game.

Couple that with how well Schaub played in the last part of the season? I think it's time to move Sage. Before the Colts game, there was a feeling that maybe Matt didn't have what it takes. I think Sage picked up on that. I think Sage was trying too hard to seal the deal (moving in for the goodnight kiss on the first date), and he was trying to capitalize off of Matt's absence.

To keep Sage, IMO, would be silly. Even if he has to come into the game, whether it's reg season or playoffs, he's not in the same frame of mind anymore. A lot of piss and vinegar got taken out of him after the Colts game.

It sucks that we refused a 3rd rounder. And, Sage would be starting for the Vikes right now...in a playoff game. I'm sure he's thinking about that. A lot of "what ifs" and "only ifs" and the best thing to do is move the guy.

Maybe we could ship Sage, Greenwood, Reeves, and Weaver for a third. [/sarcasm]
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Old 01-01-2009   #7
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Default Re: [Chronic] Coming in '09 for Texans: No Sage Rosenfels

That 3rd round pick would be real nice right about now.
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Old 01-01-2009   #8
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Default Re: [Chronic] Coming in '09 for Texans: No Sage Rosenfels

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
He'll be here next season...this is just the first of endless mindnumbing articles speculating on all sorts of weird roster moves this off season.

I'm not saying that Solomon's mind isn't "numb" (because it is) but keeping Sage isn't a good idea IMO. He's crossed a line or a point if you will that has brought him to the place he is today which is basically "backup QB that you can't trust". When Kubiak decided he couldn't win with David Carr he moved quickly to ditch him and find someone he could win with. That someone wasn't Sage Rosenfels which tells us all something about what Kubiak thought of Sage. Now Rosenfels has proven that he can't be trusted to make good decisions when asked to step up and start. Hold on a second, check that. Sage has "confirmed beyond any doubt" that he can't be trusted to make good decisions.

I think Kubiak is and has been looking to replace him. Sure he'll keep Sage if there is no reasonable alternative out there but he's looking for one. Jared Zabransky and Alex Brink were both "pet projects" of Kubiaks. I think he's trying to find a guy who he can coach up into that spot. He doesn't want to spend a lot of money on him or waste a first day draft pick on him but he's looking for a new backup QB. I think Sage's play this year probably added some urgency to that.

Also, as has been pointed out by a couple of people up above this post Sage is now forever "Rosencopter". That isn't going to go away. That's him from now on and I have big doubts as to whether he could ever again crank out a run of games like he did in 2007. He's not the same player following that total humiliation in four minutes. He's changed clearly for the worse.
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Old 01-01-2009   #9
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Default Re: [Chronic] Coming in '09 for Texans: No Sage Rosenfels

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
He'll be here next season...this is just the first of endless mindnumbing articles speculating on all sorts of weird roster moves this off season.
McClain agrees in his chat, FWIW.

I disagree with the premise of the article. Even if you got a third round pick for Sage, he did have value last season despite not being able to win like he did the year before.

Here's the value:

1. Not having to learn up a backup. There's only so many hours in a day for the coaches, so not having to spend time to learn up Quinn Gray or whomever had a value.

2. They were able to carry only 2 QBs on the roster for a good portion of the season because they were good with Sage.

3. Good lockerroom guy. Unlike some backups, like Quinn Gray for example. Yeah he wants to start but he wasn't going to make it hard on anyone.

We will never know what the alternative history would be with Sage for a third round, but it doesn't seem to merit a told ya so blog post. But yeah, the offseason is long.....
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Old 01-01-2009   #10
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Default Re: [Chronic] Coming in '09 for Texans: No Sage Rosenfels

We need a capable backup QB.

Schaub still gets hurt too often.
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Old 01-01-2009   #11
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Default Re: [Chronic] Coming in '09 for Texans: No Sage Rosenfels

I liked Boyd. I know we didn't see much of him - but what I did see was encouraging. Maybe they could bring him back into camp?
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Old 01-01-2009   #12
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Default Re: [Chronic] Coming in '09 for Texans: No Sage Rosenfels

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
I'm not saying that Solomon's mind isn't "numb" (because it is) but keeping Sage isn't a good idea IMO. He's crossed a line or a point if you will that has brought him to the place he is today which is basically "backup QB that you can't trust". When Kubiak decided he couldn't win with David Carr he moved quickly to ditch him and find someone he could win with. That someone wasn't Sage Rosenfels which tells us all something about what Kubiak thought of Sage. Now Rosenfels has proven that he can't be trusted to make good decisions when asked to step up and start. Hold on a second, check that. Sage has "confirmed beyond any doubt" that he can't be trusted to make good decisions.

I think Kubiak is and has been looking to replace him. Sure he'll keep Sage if there is no reasonable alternative out there but he's looking for one. Jared Zabransky and Alex Brink were both "pet projects" of Kubiaks. I think he's trying to find a guy who he can coach up into that spot. He doesn't want to spend a lot of money on him or waste a first day draft pick on him but he's looking for a new backup QB. I think Sage's play this year probably added some urgency to that.

Also, as has been pointed out by a couple of people up above this post Sage is now forever "Rosencopter". That isn't going to go away. That's him from now on and I have big doubts as to whether he could ever again crank out a run of games like he did in 2007. He's not the same player following that total humiliation in four minutes. He's changed clearly for the worse.
Good point of trying to find a QB that can be coached up, but by who? I think the person that will choose that QB will be Kyle and not Gary
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Old 01-01-2009   #13
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Default Re: [Chronic] Coming in '09 for Texans: No Sage Rosenfels

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Originally Posted by dickieb View Post
I liked Boyd. I know we didn't see much of him - but what I did see was encouraging. Maybe they could bring him back into camp?
I liked what little I saw of Boyd also. If they can swing a 4th round pick for Sage, I wouldn't care if he left. The problem as others have mentioned, is having to get a good backup up to speed. If this did happen, and I don't think it will, there will probably be some aging QBs looking for a paycheck that we could pick up.
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Old 01-01-2009   #14
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Default Re: [Chronic] Coming in '09 for Texans: No Sage Rosenfels

Sageregation now! Sageregation tomorrow! Sageregation FOREVER!
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Old 01-01-2009   #15
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Default Re: [Chronic] Coming in '09 for Texans: No Sage Rosenfels

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Well, he wasn't the same after the Colts game.

Couple that with how well Schaub played in the last part of the season? I think it's time to move Sage. Before the Colts game, there was a feeling that maybe Matt didn't have what it takes. I think Sage picked up on that. I think Sage was trying too hard to seal the deal (moving in for the goodnight kiss on the first date), and he was trying to capitalize off of Matt's absence.

To keep Sage, IMO, would be silly. Even if he has to come into the game, whether it's reg season or playoffs, he's not in the same frame of mind anymore. A lot of piss and vinegar got taken out of him after the Colts game.

It sucks that we refused a 3rd rounder. And, Sage would be starting for the Vikes right now...in a playoff game. I'm sure he's thinking about that. A lot of "what ifs" and "only ifs" and the best thing to do is move the guy.

Maybe we could ship Sage, Greenwood, Reeves, and Weaver for a third. [/sarcasm]
Glad you've come around

Just like the Astros, the Texans are always a year late on getting top value for what assets they might have, Sorry I was one that was on board for getting the 3rd last off season. I know Sage is a professional but we all know he doesn't want to sit as a backup.
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Old 01-01-2009   #16
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Default Re: [Chronic] Coming in '09 for Texans: No Sage Rosenfels

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I'm not seeing the reason that Sage has to go.

If he is worthless.. I mean if we won't get anything for him, then all the more reason to let him stay. I'm sure Kubiak was thinking we have an opportunity to get to the post season, if we have someone who can come off the bench and get results.. why go to the well for a former QB who will have to learn a system.

All I want from my back-up, is the desire to be a starter, and the ability to do so. Once he's satisfied with being the back-up, it's time for him to go.

Now if I were Sage, I'd want to stay, unless someone offered me a bonafied opportunity to compete for a starting job. Where is that going to happen?? Tennessee?? SF?? KC??

Barring that, I'd stay in Texas, and wait for my opportunity to showcase what I could do in a system that works for me.
I think there is a real value in having a QB that knows he's going to be a backup and is ok with that role. I think it's a real bonus that the guy might have starter experience or can start spot, but there should be a clear difference if a guy is starter material.

Sage just hasn't been that guy whether it is bad luck or not learning to play within his abilities. I don't think it is a good idea to keep him around and I said when The Vikings offered the third for him we should've took it and laughed, however barring someone offering something for Sage I don't see us breaking contract unless someone good comes along.
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Old 01-02-2009   #17
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Default Re: [Chronic] Coming in '09 for Texans: No Sage Rosenfels

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Originally Posted by Goldensilence View Post
I think there is a real value in having a QB that knows he's going to be a backup and is ok with that role. I think it's a real bonus that the guy might have starter experience or can start spot, but there should be a clear difference if a guy is starter material.

Sage just hasn't been that guy whether it is bad luck or not learning to play within his abilities. I don't think it is a good idea to keep him around and I said when The Vikings offered the third for him we should've took it and laughed, however barring someone offering something for Sage I don't see us breaking contract unless someone good comes along.
The thing that creeps me out about Sage is that "confidence" and "success" are kind of his two worst enemies. He plays safer when he's scared of screwing up. He's a guy who is going to say all the right things and try to be the player you need as a backup but in his heart he's wanting to be a starter and he's going to play like a guy trying to impress and audition for other teams.

I do not want Sage on this team so technically I'm coming down as a hater. I know everybody says the right things but I can't imagine that there aren't some Texans players who know they'd be 9-7 if Sage hadn't pulled that crap against Indy. I saw how the team played for him later in the season and they didn't respond like last year when they rallied around him. He was different after he blew that game and the team was different towards him. We need to be working on his replacement right now. Backups with Rosenfels skills are a dime a dozen.
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Old 01-02-2009   #18
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Default Re: [Chronic] Coming in '09 for Texans: No Sage Rosenfels

Don't expect it to happen quickly, but before the Chronicle cranks it up again next season, they will have a new sports columnist.

The Jarome Soloman Fan Club (both of em) might be upset, but this needs to happen, and the chrons editors should be smart enough to figure that out. (Or at least be smart enough to know the readers are usually right about these things.)

Really, when are we going to get some real sports writers around here. All of the hacks at the Chron need to go with the exception of LZ. I say hire TC, Keith, Warren and a few others and the coverage will improve 110%.
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Old 01-02-2009   #19
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Default Re: [Chronic] Coming in '09 for Texans: No Sage Rosenfels

A couple of thoughts on Sage.

As a preliminary matter, Solomon's claim that Sage would sulk his way to uselessness if not given an opportunity to compete to start is hogwash. By all accounts I've read (except Solomon's fantasies), Sage's attitude has never been an issue.

To me, the key game in Rosenfels' ill-fated 2008 campaign was not the Rosencopter but the Cleveland win. After the Indy debacle, he came back to play pretty well in Minnesota (the offense was more consistent in the second half than it was in the first with Schaub) aside from the dumb pick. He did well at Indy until the pick on the final drive, but, as with the Viking pick, we were trying to get back into the game. Baltimore's defense is, of course, top notch, and his flurry of picks (aside from the first one) all came with us significantly behind.

Sage's undoing was Cleveland. He started out well, and the whole team, for once, looked really good. But then he did the unforgiveable--turned the ball over in the second half with his team leading. Twice. A good QB should almost never throw a pick in the second half when his team is ahead, and Sage did it twice against the Browns. The D completely bailed him out, but he lost the trust of his coaches at that point. The two Indy fumbles could no longer be excused as a freak occurrence (as if they could be before that).

The next week against Jacksonville, he threw a pick on the second series (again, with a lead), and you could see Kubes throw the chains on him the rest of the way.

That said, I have no problem with us keeping him if we cannot get good value for him. Unlike many teams (cough, Dallas, cough), our offense did not go inert when the backup QB played. But, I think we've missed the opportunity to maximize his value. Oh, well.
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Old 01-02-2009   #20
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Default Re: [Chronic] Coming in '09 for Texans: No Sage Rosenfels

Solomon knows that we got the next Tom Brady in the 7th round last year, but is just too hesitant to write it.

This Solomon guy is a genius. I can only hope the Chron locks him up for 10 more years. It would only validate his drivel as top notch sports journalism.
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