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Old 12-29-2008   #41
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Default Re: So, is Schaub the real deal yet?

Matt Schaub's 2nd year as a starter projects out better than Peyton Manning's.

Touch the sig.
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Old 12-29-2008   #42
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Default Re: So, is Schaub the real deal yet?

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Originally Posted by Goatcheese View Post
Matt Schaub's 2nd year as a starter projects out better than Peyton Manning's.

Touch the sig.
On that progression curve then...Peyton was 33 TD's and 15 Int's in his third year. I'll take more than 33 passing TD's from Schaub next year

In comaprison his season does look even better though! (Plus he's missed games this year as well). Matt's figures are significantly up on last year. His main problem this year (other than being taken out of games by cheap shots) has been the fumbling...thats what we've gotta get fixed for next year now.
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Old 12-29-2008   #43
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Default Re: So, is Schaub the real deal yet?

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Originally Posted by mexican_texan View Post
He played better than at least 25 QBs and led his team to the confrence crown. That's elite, ain't it?
so why dont we get Trent Dilfer he won a Super Bowl so he must be elite, maybe Neil O'Donnel or Mark Rypien or Jeff Hostetler or I think you get the point.

Pennington is far from elite I dont care how many games the Dolphins win.

By your own definition Schaub would be an average to below average QB this year. I'm not a big fan of his but he did have a good season, we are picking 15th out of 32 so that means there were 17 other qbs that are better than Schaub.

And all you praising his durability except for the knee injury remember there is no Rosencopter if Schaub plays through his tummy ache
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Old 12-29-2008   #44
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Default Re: So, is Schaub the real deal yet?

It's like Schaub snapped out of his Boo Radley zombie-like personality.

I think the guy saw the Rosencopter incident, and he realized he could beat out Sage. Until that point, I have to think that Schaub doubted himself (or felt he might not be "the guy").

Next year will be interesting. I didn't peg him for finishing the way he has this season. Major props to the guy.

With the bullcrap we've seen on defense, via RS, I can live with Schaub staying at QB. That's no longer as big of a question mark as it had been.

Kubiak: Please get the defense attended to. You're a good defense away from the playoffs.
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Old 12-29-2008   #45
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Default Re: So, is Schaub the real deal yet?

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so why dont we get Trent Dilfer he won a Super Bowl so he must be elite, maybe Neil O'Donnel or Mark Rypien or Jeff Hostetler or I think you get the point.

Pennington is far from elite I dont care how many games the Dolphins win.

By your own definition Schaub would be an average to below average QB this year. I'm not a big fan of his but he did have a good season, we are picking 15th out of 32 so that means there were 17 other qbs that are better than Schaub.

And all you praising his durability except for the knee injury remember there is no Rosencopter if Schaub plays through his tummy ache
The guy got sick and couldn't play. It happens to everyone at some point. You ever get so sick you had to call in and couldn't come to work? Of course you have. Schaub looked like death warmed over that night on the sidelines and saying he's responsible for the loss to the Colts is some sad, weak shit right there.

Rosencopter was responsible for "Rosencopter" and nobody else.
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Old 12-29-2008   #46
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Default Re: So, is Schaub the real deal yet?

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
It's like Schaub snapped out of his Boo Radley zombie-like personality.

I think the guy saw the Rosencopter incident, and he realized he could beat out Sage. Until that point, I have to think that Schaub doubted himself (or felt he might not be "the guy").

Next year will be interesting. I didn't peg him for finishing the way he has this season. Major props to the guy.

With the bullcrap we've seen on defense, via RS, I can live with Schaub staying at QB. That's no longer as big of a question mark as it had been.

Kubiak: Please get the defense attended to. You're a good defense away from the playoffs.
That's not what I get from this year. I think he just needed the reps and then when he got enough of them we started to see him "morph" into the QB we're all hoping he becomes.
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Old 12-29-2008   #47
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Default Re: So, is Schaub the real deal yet?

lol Pennington has been one of the best quarterbacks in the league this year, anyone who's watched any handful of Dolphins games would see that. unless you've already formed your opinion about him beforehand, of course.
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Old 12-29-2008   #48
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Default Re: So, is Schaub the real deal yet?

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Originally Posted by junior View Post
Pennington is far from elite I dont care how many games the Dolphins win.
I'm not going to argue over exactly where the border for elite lies, but Pennington has been very good this year--2nd highest QB rating in the NFL isn't chicken feed.

Quote:
And all you praising his durability except for the knee injury remember there is no Rosencopter if Schaub plays through his tummy ache
There's a sentence that never should have been typed.

On top of the silly characterization of being hospitalized and receiving multiple IV's as a tummy ache, you might want to fact check before exposing your derriere--Schaub asked to play and Kubiak made the call not to start him.

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lol Pennington has been one of the best quarterbacks in the league this year, anyone who's watched any handful of Dolphins games would see that. unless you've already formed your opinion about him beforehand, of course.
Yup--and his oh so weak arm didn't stop him from hitting multiple 20+ and at least one 40+ yard tosses to win that last game.
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Old 12-29-2008   #49
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Default Re: So, is Schaub the real deal yet?

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Originally Posted by junior View Post
so why dont we get Trent Dilfer he won a Super Bowl so he must be elite, maybe Neil O'Donnel or Mark Rypien or Jeff Hostetler or I think you get the point.

Pennington is far from elite I dont care how many games the Dolphins win.

By your own definition Schaub would be an average to below average QB this year. I'm not a big fan of his but he did have a good season, we are picking 15th out of 32 so that means there were 17 other qbs that are better than Schaub.

And all you praising his durability except for the knee injury remember there is no Rosencopter if Schaub plays through his tummy ache
Wow, I disagree with the entire post especially the last couple of lines. I think you must have an agenda against Schaub for those irresponsible comments.
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Old 12-29-2008   #50
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Default Re: So, is Schaub the real deal yet?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I'm not going to argue over exactly where the border for elite lies, but Pennington has been very good this year--2nd highest QB rating in the NFL isn't chicken feed.



There's a sentence that never should have been typed.

On top of the silly characterization of being hospitalized and receiving multiple IV's as a tummy ache, you might want to fact check before exposing your derriere--Schaub asked to play and Kubiak made the call not to start him.



Yup--and his oh so weak arm didn't stop him from hitting multiple 20+ and at least one 40+ yard tosses to win that last game.
Pennington had a QB rating of 97.4 - as you say 2nd best in the league this year. The all time career leader in QB rating is Steve Young at 96.8 so I think over 97 qualifies as "elite" - at least for this year. If Pennington isn't in consideration for elite status then probably only Brady and P. Manning meet the definition.

I guess if the black knight only had a "flesh wound" then Schaub only had a "tummyache".

Arm strength is bogus. Get me a QB who can hit receivers 25 to 35 yards downfield consistently over one with poor accuracy who can hang 85 yard jumpballs in the air.
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Old 12-29-2008   #51
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Default Re: So, is Schaub the real deal yet?

Rivers and Pennington, both knocked for arm strength for years now. same with Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, for that matter. a cannon for an arm will help you get away with things, but if you're playing a high level with an average arm, that says even more about you as a quarterback.
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Old 12-29-2008   #52
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Default Re: So, is Schaub the real deal yet?

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Originally Posted by IMA TEXAN View Post
Arm strength is bogus. Get me a QB who can hit receivers 25 to 35 yards downfield consistently over one with poor accuracy who can hang 85 yard jumpballs in the air.
I wouldn't say arm strength is bogus because it limits what you can do offensively if you have a limited arm. A big arm gives you the ability to throw the deep out...jumpballs aren't exactly what any scout ever looks for but you have to have some brains to go with that rare elite arm....For instance, Jeff George had a million dollar arm but a ten cent mind. He had a wonderful spiral and a beautiful pass, but he was a rotten decision maker...you need both to be elite. Guys like Pennington, Delhomme, and Hasselbeck are all good enough to take teams to the SB without the elite arm...but it's nice to have a guy who can make every throw like John Elway.....you know, the John Elway that won 12 playoff games and went to 5 Super Bowls...since then the Broncos have won one playoff game in all the years combined after he left the team. He is a good example of an "elite armed QB".
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Old 12-29-2008   #53
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Default Re: So, is Schaub the real deal yet?

I think the concern about Schaub committing too many turnovers is overblown. He had two bad games to start the year. He threw 5 of his 10 interceptions in those two games. So his last 8.5 games he only had 5 interceptions.

Schaub's overall QB rating for the year was 92.7 - 7th overall in the NFL and ahead of heavily praised QBs Matt Cassel, Matt Ryan, Eli Manning, Jay Cutler, Brett Favre, Joe Flacco, and Ben Roethisberger. Schaub's QB rating for the season without the first two games is over 102.

If you get a QB rating of almost 93 your QB play may be not "elite" but it is top 10 and you should worry about getting all the other areas of your team into the top 10 before you worry about QB. If your QB rating is over 102 then your QB play is elite.
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Old 12-29-2008   #54
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Default Re: So, is Schaub the real deal yet?

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Originally Posted by IMA TEXAN View Post
If you get a QB rating of almost 93 your QB play may be not "elite" but it is top 10 and you should worry about getting all the other areas of your team into the top 10 before you worry about QB. If your QB rating is over 102 then your QB play is elite.
I'd put Schaub in the Hasselbeck, Delhomme class of QB...some limitations but a good enough arm to go with a mind quick enough to make important decisions on the fly. These guys can lead teams to the big game and thats all you need out of your QB since the "elite" guy is fairly rare.
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Old 12-29-2008   #55
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Default Re: So, is Schaub the real deal yet?

Reading the article about Mangini, it seems maybe Mangini was the reason Pennington didn't do so well.

If we think Kubiak has made bad gameday calls, check out this article on Mangini at foxsports.com: Mangini article by Alex Marvez

All these ex-Patriots coaches are not so hot when out on their own. And superstar players, and lots of them, can make coaches look a lot better than they are.

I know you guys think I'm awful for not being particular about Schaub, but I in no way whatsoever think the guy chickened out or was "weak" for not being able to play on Rosencopter day. I have enough class to know that that Schaub is always willing to lead. I just questioned his ability to avoid the hits and/or be able to overcome the injuries because let's face it: You can't keep taking those sorts of injuries over and over.

I was not so happy with Meyers (C) in this game. He looked like a guy who isn't fitting in along the line. Jittery. Unfocused. We need to solidify the middle of the line, IMO. The rush up the middle is brutal.
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Old 12-29-2008   #56
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Default Re: So, is Schaub the real deal yet?

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I wouldn't say arm strength is bogus because it limits what you can do offensively if you have a limited arm. A big arm gives you the ability to throw the deep out...jumpballs aren't exactly what any scout ever looks for but you have to have some brains to go with that rare elite arm....Jeff George had a million dollar arm but a ten cent mind....you need both to be elite. Guys like Pennington, Delhomme, and Hasselbeck are all good enough to take teams to the SB without the elite arm...but it's nice to have a guy who can make every throw like John Elway.....you know, the John Elway that won 12 playoff games and went to 5 Super Bowls...since then the Broncos have won one playoff game in all the years combined after he left the team. He is a good example of an "elite armed QB".
There is certainly a level of cannon arm like Cutler and or even Jamarcus Russell that I think make fans say that (or Elway from yesteryear), the kind of arm that can deliver a laser while back peddling. But other than that as long as most NFL QB's have time to step into their throws they will get it there. This is where Schaub falls for me, he has very adequate arm strength but can not fire lasers without being able to apply the mechanics. All in all he I think he can make all the throws, plus has the brains and the leadership qualities. I didn't feel this way at the start of the season, but he has proven himself to me while watching him do the little things.

I particulary like this throw to OD at the 3:10 mark. In fact there are a lot of passes with nice placement in this vid.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80daf888
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Old 12-29-2008   #57
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Default Re: So, is Schaub the real deal yet?

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I wouldn't say arm strength is bogus because it limits what you can do offensively if you have a limited arm. A big arm gives you the ability to throw the deep out...jumpballs aren't exactly what any scout ever looks for but you have to have some brains to go with that rare elite arm....Jeff George had a million dollar arm but a ten cent mind....you need both to be elite. Guys like Pennington, Delhomme, and Hasselbeck are all good enough to take teams to the SB without the elite arm...but it's nice to have a guy who can make every throw like John Elway.....you know, the John Elway that won 12 playoff games and went to 5 Super Bowls...since then the Broncos have won one playoff game in all the years combined after he left the team. He is a good example of an "elite armed QB".
Sure if I could have Superman I would. (Of course then arm strength wouldn't matter because he could just run for a TD out of the wildcat on every play.) The 65 yard deep out is great - but how many times do you really need that? If my QB can hit receivers 30 something yards downfield let them run for yards after catch.

Again, if the list of "elite" is to be Sammy Baugh, John Elway, Peyton Manning (only if he wins another SuperBowl) and Tom Brady then while I would love to have one of those guys I don't think it makes sense to make upgrading the QB spot a priority because you have a second tier QB like Sid Luckman, Roger Staubach, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Pennington, Delhomme, Hasselbeck, or Matt Schaub. While I agree that Elway was great, he didn't win a SuperBowl until Terrell Davis gave him an "elite" running game his last two years.

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Rivers and Pennington, both knocked for arm strength for years now. same with Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, for that matter. a cannon for an arm will help you get away with things, but if you're playing a high level with an average arm, that says even more about you as a quarterback.
What he said.

Great arm strength: Jeff George, David Carr, John Elway, probably Ryan Leaf.

Dubious arm strength: P. Manning, Brady, Pennington, Delhomme, Schaub.

While adding great arm strength to these guys would be nice, I don't want to throw Schaub overboard (and probably trade Mario, Andre, and DeMeco) to take a chance on the next strong armed guy. There's a lot more Ryan Leafs out there than John Elways.
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Old 12-29-2008   #58
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Default Re: So, is Schaub the real deal yet?

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While I agree that Elway was great, he didn't win a SuperBowl until Terrell Davis gave him an "elite" running game his last two years.
12 playoff victories and 5 Super Bowls on John Elway QB'd teams. Please give me an estimate of what year it will be when the Texans have done this.
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Old 12-29-2008   #59
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Default Re: So, is Schaub the real deal yet?

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I'd put Schaub in the Hasselbeck, Delhomme class of QB...some limitations but a good enough arm to go with a mind quick enough to make important decisions on the fly. These guys can lead teams to the big game and thats all you need out of your QB since the "elite" guy is fairly rare.
AMEN! Same point I was trying to make: if you have better than average don't worry that you don't have "elite". Unless you don't have room for all your Vince Lombardi trophies you probably have some positions to upgrade that are not better than average.
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Old 12-29-2008   #60
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Default Re: So, is Schaub the real deal yet?

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Nope intill he takes us to the playoffs on a constent basis he will not be the guy for us IMO
I'm sorry, but your posts always confuse me.
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