So who wants Kubiak fired, and why?

[The1ApplePie]

They only reason Kubes should be fired is if he is destined to 8-8 mediocrity forever (see Wade Phillips, Herm Edwards).

You also have to factor in how much Andre Johnson basically drags the team along by himself.

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by Mailman

Bill Belichick is everyone's unanimous genius coach, but he didn't exactly start out with an exemplary W-L record.

Perspective, anyone?

So Gary Kubiak must be the next Belichick? Because he's gotten off to a so-so start? And you're asking for perspective from others?

Dave Wannstedt begin his head coaching career with 7-9, 9-7, and 9-7 records. He, like Norv Turner, became an excellent example of a very good coordinator who couldn't win big as a head coach. And I could find dozens of similar examples of coaches who did little at the start of their careers, and continued on with mediocrity.

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by The1ApplePie

They only reason Kubes should be fired is if he is destined to 8-8 mediocrity forever (see Wade Phillips, Herm Edwards).

And by forever, you mean the remaining 2 years on his contract?

[DiehardChris]

Originally Posted by The1ApplePie

They only reason Kubes should be fired is if he is destined to 8-8 mediocrity forever.

Er... so...

What?

[Dread-Head]

Originally Posted by Mailman

Bill Belichick is everyone's unanimous genius coach, but he didn't exactly start out with an exemplary W-L record.

In his first five seasons with Cleveland the Browns finished:

6-10
7-9
7-9
11-5
5-11

He then went to New England and finished 5-11 in his first year there before the Pats went on to win the Super Bowl in 2001.

Perspective, anyone?

Uh...okay. Sorry, but could you do that piece again. We got a little feed back on the audio but other than that the video was pretty clear. Really sorry. The audio guy slipped a little. But we got the video guy from Belichik...so we KNOW HE'S A PRO!!

[fikster]

I just want him to feel or should I say put some heat on his DC and staff this year and make a change. I think he is an offensive genius, but as a head coach he has to do a better job of managing the whole team and not just the offense. Again, it is obvious he knows what he is doing with O, but he needs to hold his defensive staff to the same standard.

Watching the Cowboys game today, Troy Aikman said that Andy Reid's best sign since he became the Eagles HC was DC Jim Johnson. Reid knew he could handle the offense but needed someone great to run the defense of his team. That is what I think we need, someone we can hand the defense over to and say the cupboard is half full, tell me what else you need and I will try to get it for you.

IMO, that is part of being a HC. Knowing your personal deficiencies and finding people to overcome those and make the organization better. If he lets Smith slide again, it will cause irrepairable harm to his reputation and legacy.

[The1ApplePie]

Originally Posted by DiehardChris

Er... so...

What?

If this is as good as it gets, then give him the boot now. If he has real potential to be something more keep him.

Pretty simple

[Mailman]

Originally Posted by Lucky

So Gary Kubiak must be the next Belichick? Because he's gotten off to a so-so start? And you're asking for perspective from others?

Dave Wannstedt begin his head coaching career with 7-9, 9-7, and 9-7 records. He, like Norv Turner, became an excellent example of a very good coordinator who couldn't win big as a head coach. And I could find dozens of similar examples of coaches who did little at the start of their careers, and continued on with mediocrity.

I don't know if Kubiak is the next Belichick (doubt it) or the next Wannstedt (doubt that, too), but lobbying for his premature dismissal when his job performance merits positive marks is anathema to building a winning tradition. The lesson here is patience. Give the man five years at least and go from there.

[J-Russ]

Originally Posted by fikster

I just want him to feel or should I say put some heat on his DC and staff this year and make a change. I think he is an offensive genius, but as a head coach he has to do a better job of managing the whole team and not just the offense. Again, it is obvious he knows what he is doing with O, but he needs to hold his defensive staff to the same standard.

Ummmm, hmm, you do know he became more involved with the D about 5 weeks ago right? I think it was either the week leading up to the 2nd Colts game or the Browns game that Kubiak said(in a chron article) that he was becoming more "involved" with the defense.

Don't know if he meant that he helped the D gameplan and scheme against opposing team, calling some defensive plays during games, and/or making some changes within the defensive coaching personnel. Whatever it was that he did, it showed instant improvement over the last part of the season, compared to the first 10 weeks when Richard Smith had control of the D.

[DiehardChris]

Originally Posted by The1ApplePie

If this is as good as it gets, then give him the boot now. If he has real potential to be something more keep him.

Pretty simple

Yeah, I know what you meant... but that doesn't make any sense because unless we can tell the future - we don't know the answer. So saying "fire him if he's going to keep being mediocre" doesn't make any sense. If you're saying "yes, he's going to keep being mediocre, fire him" then that's fine... but nobody knows how he's going to turn out.

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by Mailman

Give the man five years at least and go from there.

Kubiak does have a 5 year contract. Do you believe that Kubiak deserves that 5th season, no matter the results in '09? Do you feel that Kubiak has earned an extension, based upon a 22-26 record?

Dom Capers didn't get a 5th season, and he began with an expansion team. Was Capers fired by McNair prematurely?

[The1ApplePie]

Originally Posted by DiehardChris

Yeah, I know what you meant... but that doesn't make any sense because unless we can tell the future - we don't know the answer. So saying "fire him if he's going to keep being mediocre" doesn't make any sense. If you're saying "yes, he's going to keep being mediocre, fire him" then that's fine... but nobody knows how he's going to turn out.

You have to evaluate situational things (glad I'm not in management)

You have to see if the offense is really the genius of Kubes or just Andre Johnson and Steve Slaton playing out of there minds

You can give a medicore coach good players and have a terrible team (see the 2009 Dallas Cowboys)

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by J-Russ

Whatever it was that he did, it showed instant improvement over the last part of the season, compared to the first 10 weeks when Richard Smith had control of the D.

Which, after 2 1/2 seasons, begs the question, "What took you so freakin' long???"

[J-Russ]

Originally Posted by Lucky

Which, after 2 1/2 seasons, begs the question, "What took you so freakin' long???"

Guess it was the same excuse some of us gave Richard Smith on this board, which was:

1) Not enough talent on D
2)Injuries to our players
3)Converting from 3-4 to 4-3, which should only take 2 years to make the transition to.

Kubiak probably thought enough was enough with all the excuses, and decided to go into lesser known territory and take some control of the defense.

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by fikster

I just want him to feel or should I say put some heat on his DC and staff this year and make a change. I think he is an offensive genius, but as a head coach he has to do a better job of managing the whole team and not just the offense. Again, it is obvious he knows what he is doing with O, but he needs to hold his defensive staff to the same standard.

Watching the Cowboys game today, Troy Aikman said that Andy Reid's best sign since he became the Eagles HC was DC Jim Johnson. Reid knew he could handle the offense but needed someone great to run the defense of his team. That is what I think we need, someone we can hand the defense over to and say the cupboard is half full, tell me what else you need and I will try to get it for you.

IMO, that is part of being a HC. Knowing your personal deficiencies and finding people to overcome those and make the organization better. If he lets Smith slide again, it will cause irrepairable harm to his reputation and legacy.

I agree with you. The thing is, he's done that. We have too many coaches, because he's trying to find the guy. How many defensive coaches has he hired? at least three, IIRC. They haven't worked out, but I think he's working to remedy the defense. It just never happens fast enough for fans unless you get a miracle turnaround. The way Kubiak has handled the coaching staff is markedly different from what Capers did.

As for whether or not Capers was fired prematurely, I think it's obvious he wasn't. He lost the team, in part because of how he handled the coaching staff.

[Wolf]

Kubiak should stay (and will)

Road wins are so hard because our red zone offense stinks, We have to be able to run it in ..and stupid turnovers

I think with an upgrade in the C and G spots, that will help (along with a big back)

Defensively is what will make or break Kubiak

we have to get a mean attitude of stopping the run and creating havok on the opposing QB's

that wins on the road

I imagine if we had Jim Schwartz and the titan type defense .. This team would be sitting at 12 wins or so easily

Granted I picked one of the best defenses in the league and that wasn't my intention, my intention was a defense like them that can stop the run and get after the QB ...we have Mario to create havok and that is it.

If Kubiak can't get the defense fixed, that is his downfall

[DiehardChris]

Originally Posted by Wolf

I imagine if we had Jim Schwartz and the titan type defense .. This team would be sitting at 12 wins or so easily

Nah, the Titans have WAY better personnel, period. Their D-line has tons of talent. Look at their depth - that Jones kid had 3.5 sacks last week and he's a bench player!

I really think we need a TOTAL attitude transplant on defense - coaches and players. I wouldn't be shocked if every one of our draft picks were on defense, with maybe one pick used on the O-line.

[Wolf]

Originally Posted by DiehardChris

Nah, the Titans have WAY better personnel, period. Their D-line has tons of talent. Look at their depth - that Jones kid had 3.5 sacks last week and he's a bench player!

I really think we need a TOTAL attitude transplant on defense - coaches and players. I wouldn't be shocked if every one of our draft picks were on defense, with maybe one pick used on the O-line.

true, I worded it wrong, I was thinking of having the titans defense with this offense ... would be scary even with the turnovers our offense was committing.. and I would like to see with quality coaching (like you said) that jones kid with his sacks and they even made Robaire smith a name when he was with them

[infantrycak]

Why couldn't Ronald Reagan have a third term?

Sorry, I was confused and thought I was in the useless discussions thread (no matter how much merit can be brought to either side).

[DiehardChris]

Originally Posted by Wolf

true, I worded it wrong, I was thinking of having the titans defense with this offense ... would be scary even with the turnovers our offense was committing

They'd be a LOCK for the SB, for sure.

Can you imagine if they'd drafted Cutler? *whew*