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Old 12-28-2008   #41
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Default Re: So who wants Kubiak fired, and why?

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Jeff Fisher's first five seasons:

1-5
7-9
8-8
8-8
8-8

Firing Kubiak after taking a two-win team to six, eight, and eight win seasons would be a completely stupid idea.
Looking back, it's a MIRACLE that Bud Adams stuck with him through those three 8-8 seasons.

Uh... if we go 8-8 for the third season in a row, I'll probably be on the side of those who want Kubes gone... but I don't think that's going to happen.
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Old 12-28-2008   #42
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Default Re: So who wants Kubiak fired, and why?

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I don't disagree with any of that about the Raiders game. I was shocked at those bad play calls. Shocked. And they were not ready to play. It was a classic case of them taking Oakland too lightly, and the players thinking they were better than they are - which is mediocre.

But I still think the good outweighs the bad, and IMO wins at Green Bay and home against TEN are better than the bad that came from the Oakland loss. Just my opinion.
To me, the Oakland game is indicative of something that can be greatly affected by coaching. Why is the team not prepared and taking the Raiders lightly? How does the coaching staff allow this attitude?

And that's really the crux of it to me. You can not win meaningfully or consistently without a winning football attitude, and it's more than improving on the offense and being third in the league. It's a toughness and football mentality that pervades an organization. It's hitting a D-lineman in the mouth after the whistle if he takes a shot at your QB.

I guess I want old school coaches who still teach toughness and have spittle flying out of their mouths at refs after bad calls, not coaches who see themselves as the CEOs of their teams, not really invoking any emotions. I want a team identity, and if anyone can successfully vocalize what the identity of our team is, I'd love to hear it.
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Old 12-28-2008   #43
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Default Re: So who wants Kubiak fired, and why?

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To me, the Oakland game is indicative of something that can be greatly affected by coaching. Why is the team not prepared and taking the Raiders lightly? How does the coaching staff allow this attitude?

And that's really the crux of it to me. You can not win meaningfully or consistently without a winning football attitude, and it's more than improving on the offense and being third in the league. It's a toughness and football mentality that pervades an organization. It's hitting a D-lineman in the mouth after the whistle if he takes a shot at your QB.

I guess I want old school coaches who still teach toughness and have spittle flying out of their mouths at refs after bad calls, not coaches who see themselves as the CEOs of their teams, not really invoking any emotions. I want a team identity, and if anyone can successfully vocalize what the identity of our team is, I'd love to hear it.
Wow - we want the exact same things for our team... funny that we totally disagree on what we have currently.

I was RAGING last year when Schaub got hit and none of our guys took out the guys who hit him cheaply. I think Kubiak has it in him to be that fiery, angry HC, but he just doesn't show it much to the media. He very often gets very angry and vocal on the sideline, though.

Far as our identity, I don't know. I agree - I want that identity too... I'm jealous of the Titans' defensive identity... same with the Steelers. I want to be the rough, blast'em in the face team - not the finesse team... that's why I want Richard Smith gone so badly. I think we need a complete attitude transplant on defense. Players and coaches.
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Old 12-28-2008   #44
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Default Re: So who wants Kubiak fired, and why?

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To me, the Oakland game is indicative of something that can be greatly affected by coaching. Why is the team not prepared and taking the Raiders lightly? How does the coaching staff allow this attitude?

And that's really the crux of it to me. You can not win meaningfully or consistently without a winning football attitude, and it's more than improving on the offense and being third in the league. It's a toughness and football mentality that pervades an organization. It's hitting a D-lineman in the mouth after the whistle if he takes a shot at your QB.

I guess I want old school coaches who still teach toughness and have spittle flying out of their mouths at refs after bad calls, not coaches who see themselves as the CEOs of their teams, not really invoking any emotions. I want a team identity, and if anyone can successfully vocalize what the identity of our team is, I'd love to hear it.
Houston 13 Tennessee 12

The Texans don't win that game without that same attitude and toughness.
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Old 12-28-2008   #45
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Default Re: So who wants Kubiak fired, and why?

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Houston 13 Tennessee 12

The Texans don't win that game without that same attitude and toughness.
That's true - but it's been the exception more often than the rule. I agree we need that kind of attitude ALWAYS.
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Old 12-28-2008   #46
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Default Re: So who wants Kubiak fired, and why?

Bill Belichick is everyone's unanimous genius coach, but he didn't exactly start out with an exemplary W-L record.

In his first five seasons with Cleveland the Browns finished:

6-10
7-9
7-9
11-5
5-11

He then went to New England and finished 5-11 in his first year there before the Pats went on to win the Super Bowl in 2001.

Perspective, anyone?
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Old 12-28-2008   #47
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Default Re: So who wants Kubiak fired, and why?

During the game today, when we were down 10-0 and the offense wasn't performing, Kubiak had the offense lined up on a bench and was giving them hell. We all know what happened after that. Kubiak does have fire and passion.

I, for one, think he is going to be a great head coach for somebody one day, and would be really pissed if we weren't the somebody. I promise you that if we were stupid enough to fire him, he would be snapped up by another team in a heartbeat. Luckily, I trust Bob McNair to make the right decision and keep him around. Thank God that some posters here do not get to make the call about firing and hiring.
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Old 12-28-2008   #48
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Default Re: So who wants Kubiak fired, and why?

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Wow - we want the exact same things for our team... funny that we totally disagree on what we have currently.

I was RAGING last year when Schaub got hit and none of our guys took out the guys who hit him cheaply. I think Kubiak has it in him to be that fiery, angry HC, but he just doesn't show it much to the media. He very often gets very angry and vocal on the sideline, though.

Far as our identity, I don't know. I agree - I want that identity too... I'm jealous of the Titans' defensive identity... same with the Steelers. I want to be the rough, blast'em in the face team - not the finesse team... that's why I want Richard Smith gone so badly. I think we need a complete attitude transplant on defense. Players and coaches.
You know what, I feel like, and I hate to say it, the Arizona Cardinals. They obviously made the playoffs this year, but they've had this potential for a couple years now and I could never get a vibe on what they were about as a football team. And I still kinda don't.

The thing with Arizona (and us) is I think they've been losers or mediocre for so long that they basically have the identity of nougat. Just sorta there, and rather non-descript. You can go from a losing team to an 8-8 or 9-7 team and not really undergo much of a mental transformation if you have the talent and it starts to emerge. But I truly believe going from good to great comes top-down from the head coach and his staff.

Maybe getting Smith out and someone new as DC in will give us an attitude and an identity that will spread, but at this point I'm really not wanting more finesse or "genius" types of guys if they're not going to make their players want to stomp a mudhole in their opponent's ass and walk it dry. I would LOVE for other teams to fear our team on both sides of the ball.
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Old 12-28-2008   #49
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Default Re: So who wants Kubiak fired, and why?

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That's true - but it's been the exception more often than the rule. I agree we need that kind of attitude ALWAYS.
Undoubtedly, but we also need to be realistic and remember that the players and coaches are not automatons. There will be those Sundays when teams perform poorly. The Texans have clearly improved in this area over the last couple of years. They're not losing to crappy teams and they're competing with the good ones.
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Old 12-28-2008   #50
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Default Re: So who wants Kubiak fired, and why?

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Houston 13 Tennessee 12

The Texans don't win that game without that same attitude and toughness.
Too bad it only emerges for one game.

Schaub did show me something that game and I hope he becomes the catalyst, along with "won't go down" Slaton, for some toughness on the offense.
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Old 12-28-2008   #51
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Default Re: So who wants Kubiak fired, and why?

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During the game today, when we were down 10-0 and the offense wasn't performing, Kubiak had the offense lined up on a bench and was giving them hell. We all know what happened after that. Kubiak does have fire and passion.

I, for one, think he is going to be a great head coach for somebody one day, and would be really pissed if we weren't the somebody. I promise you that if we were stupid enough to fire him, he would be snapped up by another team in a heartbeat. Luckily, I trust Bob McNair to make the right decision and keep him around. Thank God that some posters here do not get to make the call about firing and hiring.
ditto.
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Old 12-28-2008   #52
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Default Re: So who wants Kubiak fired, and why?

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You know what, I feel like, and I hate to say it, the Arizona Cardinals. They obviously made the playoffs this year, but they've had this potential for a couple years now and I could never get a vibe on what they were about as a football team. And I still kinda don't.

The thing with Arizona (and us) is I think they've been losers or mediocre for so long that they basically have the identity of nougat. Just sorta there, and rather non-descript. You can go from a losing team to an 8-8 or 9-7 team and not really undergo much of a mental transformation if you have the talent and it starts to emerge. But I truly believe going from good to great comes top-down from the head coach and his staff.

Maybe getting Smith out and someone new as DC in will give us an attitude and an identity that will spread, but at this point I'm really not wanting more finesse or "genius" types of guys if they're not going to make their players want to stomp a mudhole in their opponent's ass and walk it dry. I would LOVE for other teams to fear our team on both sides of the ball.
The West Coast offense by definition is a finesse offense. However, that does not mean it is not feared. You don't think DCs have nightmares trying to figure out to stop the Texans offense? Of course they do.

Now the defense is another matter entirely. If Kubiak does not do the right thing by the defense this off season, then I'll join your club. However, Kubes does deserve the chance to make it right and I'm willing to give him a chance.
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Old 12-28-2008   #53
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Default Re: So who wants Kubiak fired, and why?

Winning football attitude?

When we are sitting at 3-7, I am thinking Kubes needs to win at least 6 to keep his job. At this point in the season, the whole team understands that the playoffs are out of reach. Our starting QB is going to be out for a long stretch. The majority of the fan base is exhausted with following this franchise.

I think winning five of the last six to finish at .500 shows that Kubiak has instilled a winning football attitude. Every team in the NFL has a disappointing game like the Oakland game.
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Old 12-28-2008   #54
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Default Re: So who wants Kubiak fired, and why?

I think Schaub showed a LOT of anger and fire the last few weeks. I think he's becoming a leader. Slaton has a hell of a lot of toughness, and the offensive line gets a tougher and tougher rep the more our rushing yards continue to improve.

But yeah, like Jen said - the defense. Gawd if we can just somehow get another pass rusher - I think our attitude on defense could change in a hurry. Right now nobody's scared of anything on our defense... not even Mario, really, since they know they can double and triple him all game and at least marginalize him somewhat.
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Old 12-28-2008   #55
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Default Re: So who wants Kubiak fired, and why?

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Too bad it only emerges for one game.

Schaub did show me something that game and I hope he becomes the catalyst, along with "won't go down" Slaton, for some toughness on the offense.
I don't think it emerged for one game or else the team wouldn't have finished 8-4 after that gravedigger start. Think about it. They lost the first four games but they refused to give up on the season. Likewise, they played one of their worst games of the season last week against Oakland (btw, the same team who beat Tampa on the road today) only to battle back from a pathetic start in the first quarter and control the game against the Bears.

These are indicators that Kubiak has the team headed in the right direction.
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Old 12-28-2008   #56
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Default Re: So who wants Kubiak fired, and why?

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The West Coast offense by definition is a finesse offense. However, that does not mean it is not feared. You don't think DCs have nightmares trying to figure out to stop the Texans offense? Of course they do.

Now the defense is another matter entirely. If Kubiak does not do the right thing by the defense this off season, then I'll join your club. However, Kubes does deserve the chance to make it right and I'm willing to give him a chance.
Oh, I think our offense is to be feared scoring-wise. But my FEAR is that d-lineman really never face retribution for taking shots on Schaub, and I want a mean and nasty o-line who will not only protect their boy, but put a shot on someone who tries to hurt him outside of fair play (Jared Allen anyone?).
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Old 12-28-2008   #57
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Default Re: So who wants Kubiak fired, and why?

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Oh, I think our offense is to be feared scoring-wise. But my FEAR is that d-lineman really never face retribution for taking shots on Schaub, and I want a mean and nasty o-line who will not only protect their boy, but put a shot on someone who tries to hurt him outside of fair play (Jared Allen anyone?).
Unfortunately, the o linemen usually don't see those incidents because it happens behind them. Yes I would like to see some retribution from them as well, but they don't have eyes in the back of their heads.
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Old 12-28-2008   #58
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Default Re: So who wants Kubiak fired, and why?

"I can look you in the eye and say we were a much better team this year, and we have the exact same record. It's the energy level, the attitude. We started 0-4 and could have packed it in. Yet guys hung together, showed their class and character.''--Chester Pitts.

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Old 12-28-2008   #59
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Default Re: So who wants Kubiak fired, and why?

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During the game today, when we were down 10-0 and the offense wasn't performing, Kubiak had the offense lined up on a bench and was giving them hell. We all know what happened after that. Kubiak does have fire and passion.
I, for one, think he is going to be a great head coach for somebody one day, and would be really pissed if we weren't the somebody. I promise you that if we were stupid enough to fire him, he would be snapped up by another team in a heartbeat. Luckily, I trust Bob McNair to make the right decision and keep him around. Thank God that some posters here do not get to make the call about firing and hiring.
Thanks for bringing that up because I didn't notice that. I'm glad he did that because we needed something for our offense to get going. Before that we looked like the 2005 Texans.
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Old 12-28-2008   #60
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Default Re: So who wants Kubiak fired, and why?

I give him at least one more season but if we finish 8-8 again or below which I doubt that we will but if we do then I think that it will be time to cut the chease with Gary K. and moveon.org. This team is just a couple of players away, ok maybe more but anyway but there is not enough draft picks to fix everything at one time but I think that we are just a couple of players away in 2009 on both sides of the football from at least being able to reach the playoffs or at I hope so because I am getting so tired of at the end of every season repeating the words next season will be our season but I think that we all are for that matter. This must change soon and I think that it will or at leat I hope so. We all want this team to change for the better and I do think that they are at least on somewhat of the right track. These are just my quick thoughts on this topic.
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