So who wants Kubiak fired, and why?

[IlliniJen]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

It is indeed and next season we are going to begin to see those national media types putting Kubiak on their "Might be in the hot seat" articles whether there's any truth to this or not. It's just a case of time running out on an NFL coach. You bring a guy into a "basket case" situation like Houston post-2005 and everyone spots him a season to get the lay of the land. Then you expect to see some improvement and Kubiak gave us that in 2007 with a .500 record. The next year (2008) you expect them to start looking like winners and we did that.....kinda. We're still .500 so technically this season is something of a wash for us but we had some improvement in very visible areas and so Kubiak doesn't get the kind of criticism he might have. Next year if we make a lot of the same mistakes then the talking heads will see him as a fair game to start talking job security about.

I thought this was a very good thread idea and topical. Kubiak is not a slam-dunk choice for getting a 5 year contract extension by most peoples standards. We have issues and some of them aren't going away like they should be. There's room to talk about this.

We've seen improvements, no doubt, but to me, we're STILL 8-8. Those improvements haven't shown in the win column, and to me, there's something holding this team back BESIDES the woeful defense.

There are intangibles like toughness and attitude, and tangibles like preparation and playcalling/game management that I think are really missing from this team and I'm betting that THESE are the things that are holding us back, besides a horrible defense, that lay at the feet of the coaches.

I really hope we turn it around next year and see a team with a nasty winning attitude, but I seriously doubt that Kubes is the guy to get us over the attitude or "win when it counts" hump. I'm with you on that, Herv.

[Big Lou]

Bottom line this team was in shambles when he took over, and the Texans have gotten better every year since.......

Don't look at Miami, Atlanta, and Baltimore and compare. Kubiak has improved this team every year. The record is not a true indicator of this teams ability.

Before Kubiak was here, no one even mentioned the Texans. Now they are known and at least respected enough that teams no longer look past them.

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by IlliniJen

We've seen improvements, no doubt, but to me, we're STILL 8-8. Those improvements haven't shown in the win column, and to me, there's something holding this team back BESIDES the woeful defense.

There are intangibles like toughness and attitude, and tangibles like preparation and playcalling/game management that I think are really missing from this team and I'm betting that THESE are the things that are holding us back, besides a horrible defense, that lays at the feet of the coaches.

I really hope we turn it around next year and see a team with a nasty winning attitude, but I seriously doubt that Kubes is the guy to get us over the attitude or "win when it counts" hump. I'm with you on that, Herv.

Exactly and it is really shocking how many other teams are having this same discussion. Teams that are going to the playoffs are having this debate. Titans boards are filled with critics of Jeff Fisher for instance. I see lots of problems and to me it's all a case of what kind of coach do we have? Do we have a guy who can pick it up and become great? Do we have Bill Belichick circa: 1991-95? That guy was no "genius" at the time. He made mistakes and pissed people off and got fired. Do we have Jerry Glanville? I don't mean in the wacky personality disorder way but is he a guy who can basically fix one side of the ball and drag a team from being a loser to being a bottom of the heap quasi-winner.

What is Kubiak's ceiling and are we there yet? That to me is a huge question and if the answer is "this is it" then what do the Texans do about it?

[IlliniJen]

Originally Posted by Big Lou

Don't look at Miami, Atlanta, and Baltimore and compare. Kubiak has improved this team every year. The record is not a true indicator of this teams ability.

No, the record doesn't really indicate ability, but unfortunately it's the only thing that really counts at the end of the day.

As Herm Edwards once said: "You play to win the game." And it really is that simple. Once again, we're not a playoff team, and with all the "ability" this team has, we should be better than 8-8 in what most people said would be our playoff year.

[DiehardChris]

Okay, I'll just repeat what I said the last time we had this discussion.

The guy had two great seasons of improvement - and then ONE ROUGH STRETCH.

Which included three games on the road against playoff teams to start the year.

Which included a hurricane that totally destroyed our season.

And - DESPITE all of that - look how we finished after an 0-4 start. 8-4, and 5 wins in our last 6 games.

You DO NOT fire a guy who has taken this team from COMPLETE AND TOTAL GARBAGE to what it is now. They had ONE bad stretch this season. ONE bad stretch. How does that overrule what he has done up until the ONE bad stretch? It doesn't.

Also - we're not the same 8-8 we were last year. We have an identity on offense. We have our RB star we so sorely needed. We have a QB who proved he can stay healthy (cheap shots don't count as injuries IMO).

So no, Kubiak doesn't deserve to be fired. He deserves an apology from a lot of the a-holes on this board who wanted him gone because he had gone through one bad stretch of football after all he had done for this team.

This is Gary Kubiak's dream job. NOBODY wants him to win more than he does. None of the fans, none of the players, nobody. He KILLS himself for this team, and I think he deserves a hell of a lot better than what he's gotten from a lot of fans this year.

No, he's not perfect. Yes, he's had problems. But look at the big picture here. We have an offense that is approaching ELITE status, and now we just need to work out our defensive issues.

/end rant

[IlliniJen]

Originally Posted by DiehardChris

So no, Kubiak doesn't deserve to be fired. He deserves an apology from a lot of the a-holes on this board who wanted him gone because he had gone through one bad stretch of football after all he had done for this team.

Really? In the midst of a rational discussion, you need to call those of us who think he should be fired "a-holes"? Really?

There are plenty of good, RATIONAL reasons for keeping Kubiak or wanting a new head coach. I do not dislike Kubiak as a person, but I'm not discussion him as a person, I'm making an assessment of his JOB PERFORMANCE. And IMHO, I'm not entirely happy with his performance nor am I convinced he can take this team beyond 8-8.

There are positives and negatives to this season, and I'm more than happy to discuss them rationally and respectfully. I don't think getting emotional and calling those who think he should be fired "a-holes" is very productive or speaks to a rational argument as to why he should stay.

[DiehardChris]

Originally Posted by IlliniJen

Really? In the midst of a rational discussion, you need to call those of us who think he should be fired "a-holes"? Really?

There are plenty of good, RATIONAL reasons for keeping Kubiak or wanting a new head coach. I do not dislike Kubiak as a person, but I'm not discussion him as a person, I'm making an assessment of his JOB PERFORMANCE. And IMHO, I'm not entirely happy with his performance nor am I convinced he can take this team beyond 8-8.

There are positives and negatives to this season, and I'm more than happy to discuss them rationally and respectfully. I don't think getting emotional and calling those who think he should be fired "a-holes" is very productive or speaks to a rational argument as to why he should stay.

It sounds like you only read the a-hole part of my post. I gave plenty of reasons why he should stay. I'm pretty much always rational and respectful when it comes to football talk... but fans turning their back on the coach after all the good he's done - and the Tennessee Titans - always makes me kind of a jerk.

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by DiehardChris

It sounds like you only read the a-hole part of my post. I gave plenty of reasons why he should stay. I'm pretty much always rational and respectful when it comes to football talk... but fans turning their back on the coach after all the good he's done - and the Tennessee Titans - always makes me kind of a jerk.

People tend to do that when you call them a-holes.

Personally I think that arguments can be made either way (and I expect they will be once next season gets on the radar).

[DiehardChris]

If Kubiak tanks next year - I will eat tons of crow. I just really think he's the guy.

Were you actually calling for him to be fired earlier in the year? Jen, were you? I'm sorry I resorted to name-calling... I just didn't really think there were that many people who called for Kubes to definitely be fired during this season.

[IlliniJen]

Originally Posted by DiehardChris

It sounds like you only read the a-hole part of my post. I gave plenty of reasons why he should stay. I'm pretty much always rational and respectful when it comes to football talk... but fans turning their back on the coach after all the good he's done - and the Tennessee Titans - always makes me kind of a jerk.

Actually, you didn't give a lot of solid reasons. You did supply a lot of excuses - some of them valid - but at the end of the day, excuses don't explain away our inability to win against winning teams or our poor red zone conversion rate or poor game preparation or far too many road losses or poor playcalling.

If you truly, in your heart of hearts believes that this team can make the playoffs under Kubiak and truly become a winning team that can take on all comers, then you're entitled to your opinion.

We ARE a better team positionally on offense. What a difference a decent QB makes, and a RB, and a TE and a good many playmakers that our team acquired AFTER Kubes became the head coach. There is a lot of talent on our offense and we SHOULD have won more games this year, but we didn't.

At the end of the day, we are 8-8 and we won't get the benefit of an Ike asterisk or a Rosencopter asterisk or a Jags coin-flip asterisk or a came-out-flat-versus-the-Raiders asterisk. We are 8-8 and we should not be having this discussion if I believed that Kubes brings the intangibles that I think would take us to the next level.

[Pantherstang84]

Originally Posted by DiehardChris

Okay, I'll just repeat what I said the last time we had this discussion.

The guy had two great seasons of improvement - and then ONE ROUGH STRETCH.

Which included three games on the road against playoff teams to start the year.

Which included a hurricane that totally destroyed our season.

And - DESPITE all of that - look how we finished after an 0-4 start. 8-4, and 5 wins in our last 6 games.

You DO NOT fire a guy who has taken this team from COMPLETE AND TOTAL GARBAGE to what it is now. They had ONE bad stretch this season. ONE bad stretch. How does that overrule what he has done up until the ONE bad stretch? It doesn't.

Also - we're not the same 8-8 we were last year. We have an identity on offense. We have our RB star we so sorely needed. We have a QB who proved he can stay healthy (cheap shots don't count as injuries IMO).

So no, Kubiak doesn't deserve to be fired. He deserves an apology from a lot of the a-holes on this board who wanted him gone because he had gone through one bad stretch of football after all he had done for this team.

This is Gary Kubiak's dream job. NOBODY wants him to win more than he does. None of the fans, none of the players, nobody. He KILLS himself for this team, and I think he deserves a hell of a lot better than what he's gotten from a lot of fans this year.

No, he's not perfect. Yes, he's had problems. But look at the big picture here. We have an offense that is approaching ELITE status, and now we just need to work out our defensive issues.

/end rant

Rep.

That being said. My faith in Kubes will be greatly shaken if some major changes are not made on the defensive side of the ball this offseason.

[Pantherstang84]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

People tend to do that when you call them a-holes.

Personally I think that arguments can be made either way (and I expect they will be once next season gets on the radar).

Kind of like an 8-8 record? 50-50?

[Pantherstang84]

Originally Posted by IlliniJen

Actually, you didn't give a lot of solid reasons. You did supply a lot of excuses - some of them valid - but at the end of the day, excuses don't explain away our inability to win against winning teams or our poor red zone conversion rate or poor game preparation or far too many road losses or poor playcalling.

If you truly, in your heart of hearts believes that this team can make the playoffs under Kubiak and truly become a winning team that can take on all comers, then you're entitled to your opinion.

We ARE a better team positionally on offense. What a difference a decent QB makes, and a RB, and a TE and a good many playmakers that our team acquired AFTER Kubes became the head coach. There is a lot of talent on our offense and we SHOULD have won more games this year, but we didn't.

At the end of the day, we are 8-8 and we won't get the benefit of an Ike asterisk or a Rosencopter asterisk or a Jags coin-flip asterisk or a came-out-flat-versus-the-Raiders asterisk. We are 8-8 and we should not be having this discussion if I believed that Kubes brings the intangibles that I think would take us to the next level.

All of the talent in the world does not make you a good football team.

Sincerely,

Jerry Jones

IMO. Sage Rosenfels is the reason the Texans finished @ .500. All by himself. You can't put his one man show in the Indy home game on Kubiak. It just won't fly.

[IlliniJen]

Originally Posted by DiehardChris

If Kubiak tanks next year - I will eat tons of crow. I just really think he's the guy.

Were you actually calling for him to be fired earlier in the year? Jen, were you? I'm sorry I resorted to name-calling... I just didn't really think there were that many people who called for Kubes to definitely be fired during this season.

I was a doubter halfway during the season, when I began questioning the identity of this team. I voted back then in a poll that he should not come back next year because I don't see anything fundamentally changing in the way he coaches, he just has a ****load of talent to work with.

Last week's Raiders game made me firmly say he needs to be fired because I honestly don't know how he can make those two pass calls with 3rd and 4th and a half yard after being a head coach for almost 3 full years, especially after similar playcalling has backfired on him this very season. I seriously cannot understand doing that in that situation. I was pretty much convinced that the head coach is NOT learning from experience, and I was done.

[DiehardChris]

Originally Posted by IlliniJen

Really? In the midst of a rational discussion, you need to call those of us who think he should be fired "a-holes"? Really?

There are plenty of good, RATIONAL reasons for keeping Kubiak or wanting a new head coach. I do not dislike Kubiak as a person, but I'm not discussion him as a person, I'm making an assessment of his JOB PERFORMANCE. And IMHO, I'm not entirely happy with his performance nor am I convinced he can take this team beyond 8-8.

There are positives and negatives to this season, and I'm more than happy to discuss them rationally and respectfully. I don't think getting emotional and calling those who think he should be fired "a-holes" is very productive or speaks to a rational argument as to why he should stay.

Those aren't excuses, they're reasons. The Ike thing was huge, and that's not hindsight or retrospect. Starting on the road three games - with the first two being the best teams in the AFC - was huge. I didn't expect the Texans to win either one of those games.

I don't make excuses for this team. We didn't lose the Jags game because of a coin flip - we lost because we couldn't contain David Garrard. I don't know what you mean by asterisks - I don't believe we should have any either. I'm very, very hard on this team. Harder than pretty much anyone I know who devotes huge chunks of time writing about them. Again - I don't think Kubes is perfect - but the good far outweighs the bad - and I do think we have a lot more positives going into this offseason than we did last year.

[Dread-Head]

Keep Kubes. Get some hitmen in the secondary to help Robinson out and next year they'll make the playoffs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdUr5...eature=related

[DiehardChris]

Originally Posted by IlliniJen

I was a doubter halfway during the season, when I began questioning the identity of this team. I voted back then in a poll that he should not come back next year because I don't see anything fundamentally changing in the way he coaches, he just has a ****load of talent to work with.

Last week's Raiders game made me firmly say he needs to be fired because I honestly don't know how he can make those two pass calls with 3rd and 4th and a half yard after being a head coach for almost 3 full years, especially after similar playcalling has backfired on him this very season. I seriously cannot understand doing that in that situation. I was pretty much convinced that the head coach is NOT learning from experience, and I was done.

I don't disagree with any of that about the Raiders game. I was shocked at those bad play calls. Shocked. And they were not ready to play. It was a classic case of them taking Oakland too lightly, and the players thinking they were better than they are - which is mediocre.

But I still think the good outweighs the bad, and IMO wins at Green Bay and home against TEN are better than the bad that came from the Oakland loss. Just my opinion.

[Mailman]

Originally Posted by IlliniJen

Actually, you didn't give a lot of solid reasons. You did supply a lot of excuses - some of them valid - but at the end of the day, excuses don't explain away our inability to win against winning teams or our poor red zone conversion rate or poor game preparation or far too many road losses or poor playcalling.

What you call a "valid excuse" I call a reason.

Chris is absolutely correct in his assessment of Kubiak and I agree with him that Kubiak is owed much more deference and respect than his critics give him. He has done a very good job taking a crappy team and shaping it into a talented team on the cusp of being very good.

The quickest route to the basement of the AFC South would be to fire Kubiak and destroy the continuity the franchise is just beginning to build. Continuity is an asset. Nurture it and the winning will follow. Gut it and we're back to sucking.

[Big Lou]

Originally Posted by Dread-Head

Keep Kubes. Get some hitmen in the secondary to help Robinson out and next year they'll make the playoffs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdUr5...eature=related

Bring on Safety William Moore out of Mizzou!!!!!!!

[Mailman]

Jeff Fisher's first five seasons:

1-5
7-9
8-8
8-8
8-8

Firing Kubiak after taking a two-win team to six, eight, and eight win seasons would be a completely stupid idea.