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Old 12-14-2008   #1
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Default Proverbial Corner - NOW Believe what you've heard

This ain't your dad's Texans. This wasn't the perfect game. Catches were dropped, field goals missed, blocking assignments blown and blocking assignments missed. That wasn't the problem with this team though. This wasn't about what was done wrong. This was about how we reacted. For the longest time this franchise has won the games that they played well. When an NFL team plays a perfect game, they win. That's a given.

This game was the constant changing of the field. This was the DT knifing into the backfield to tackle for a loss. For once this year, a win wasn't about the offense, but rather about the defense. Your Texans aren't supposed to win games when they only score 13 points. They are supposed to get blown out. Especially against a team that can run the ball like the Titans can. This game was scripted. This was going to be another tough loss. We were going to talk about the final 3 minutes, how we had the lead and blew the game. Instead, somebody flipped the script. They threw in Okoye and Johnson and Ryans and Slaton.

The kids are starting to carry this team... that's dangerous. This team just put the league on notice, you heard it hear first. One of the problems with this team has been the fact that our leaders weren't home grown. Until the last 3 years we had only drafted two leaders to this team. Now we've added Ryans and Mario and Slaton. The kids are growing up. We were always looking for outside talent, guys who for one reason or another weren't a good enough value on their old teams. And then looking to them to be the leaders. Not any more.

It has been easy to dismiss our wins this year. We didn't beat good teams. We didn't have what it took when we went against the league's best. You can't say that now. It has taken some time. It has taken a lot of time. It took some injuries too. Who knew that our young players would step in like they have. Oh and that guy Robinson? I might adopt him. He doesn't "make plays", he pushes. Collins wasn't right all game, and a big part of that was the pressure in his face. Robinson was collapsing the pocket from the top all day. I'm telling you, get a "Haynesworth" and you might be headed somewhere next year.

Here's how I see us set up next year.

Schaub is your guy. No question.

On the OL, you keep the tackles and Pitts. You are looking for a new C and RG.

In the backfield. Get a bruiser. Don't sleep on Slaton though. He is a legit every down guy. Spell him and get him 17+ touches a game. Every time he touches the ball he's a threat to break it for the distance.

WRs. You're set. Don't touch them, I love this mix. Same with TE.

DL. Mario is good, I like Okoye for what he does too. Get a game changer at DT. A Big guy that can push people, collapse the pocket and disrupt the run. (can you spell Haynesworth?). I'm not opposed to getting a DE but I'm not as desperate as some. I think if you can force the QB back a few yards we have the depth and talent on this team to find a DE here at home.

LB. Coming into this season I thought we needed to run out and get one. I thought we didn't have enough. But I like Bently. I like Adibi. I like Ryans. I like Diles. You're drafting for depth here.

DB. I want a big league safety. Another CB would be nice but with the personnel change we've recently made I'm a lot more comfortable.

A note on smith. I don't know what you think about him. I argued early in the season that we didn't have the personnel to do much on defense. I thought we didn't have the speed. I think the injuries have allowed us to see some guys that can play. I think we're a few pieces short, but this is a team that is on the cusp of winning 12+ games.

By the way. That was the proverbial turn. We took a right, and went around id.

Mike
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Old 12-14-2008   #2
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Default Re: Proverbial Corner - NOW Believe what you've heard

I could be wrong, but I don't thing we really need a RG.

I agree completely with everything else....except....well....

Fire Richard Smith!!!
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Old 12-14-2008   #3
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Default Re: Proverbial Corner - NOW Believe what you've heard

great thread!!!!!
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Old 12-14-2008   #4
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Default Re: Proverbial Corner - NOW Believe what you've heard

I hope we get a power-type back, of course I also hope Slaton is not the type of guy who doesn't like to share.
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Old 12-14-2008   #5
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Old 12-14-2008   #6
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Default Re: Proverbial Corner - NOW Believe what you've heard

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Originally Posted by Leahmic223 View Post
I hope we get a power-type back, of course I also hope Slaton is not the type of guy who doesn't like to share.
Nah, he only needs a couple hand-offs to get 100 yds. and two scores.

PS-Don't stop me. I'm happy.
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Old 12-14-2008   #7
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Default Re: Proverbial Corner - NOW Believe what you've heard

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Nah, he only needs a couple hand-offs to get 100 yds. and two scores.

PS-Don't stop me. I'm happy.
Don't forget his reception yards...
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Old 12-14-2008   #8
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Default Re: Proverbial Corner - NOW Believe what you've heard

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Originally Posted by HJam72 View Post
I could be wrong, but I don't thing we really need a RG.

I agree completely with everything else....except....well....

Fire Richard Smith!!!
I'm kind of wavering on Smith. I really wonder who's calling the game. If it is Smith let him stay. If its someone else, hire them.

Mike
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Old 12-14-2008   #9
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Default Re: Proverbial Corner - NOW Believe what you've heard

We'll have our answer on who's calling the plays on defense in the offseason.

If it's Smith, we'll end up keeping him. If it's someone else, he'll get the promotion. We just have to wait. As long as whoever calls the plays now keeps calling them just like this next season, I'm perfectly happy.
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Old 12-16-2008   #10
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Default Re: Proverbial Corner - NOW Believe what you've heard

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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
Here's how I see us set up next year.

QB - Schaub is your guy. No question.
Agreed. But is Sage still the backup or do we snag one of the F/As that may become available? No question we try and pickup a young-un (6th/7th rd or UDFA) to groom for the future

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On the OL, you keep the tackles and Pitts. You are looking for a new C and RG.
Agreed. Question #2: Does the Angry Cherokee stay one more year?

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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
In the backfield. Get a bruiser. Don't sleep on Slaton though. He is a legit every down guy. Spell him and get him 17+ touches a game. Every time he touches the ball he's a threat to break it for the distance.
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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
WRs. You're set. Don't touch them, I love this mix. Same with TE.
Gotta get OD re-signed. Maybe look for an upgrade/replacement for Bruener. T.J. Houshmandzadeh and Jabar Gaffney might be available... J/K! don't shoot, don't shoot! Seriously though, its time to get JJ into the mix and make better use of Andre #2 down field speed. He stepped up when Andre #1 was out last year. Now he seems like the forgotten man.

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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
DL. Mario is good, I like Okoye for what he does too. Get a game changer at DT. A Big guy that can push people, collapse the pocket and disrupt the run. (can you spell Haynesworth?). I'm not opposed to getting a DE but I'm not as desperate as some. I think if you can force the QB back a few yards we have the depth and talent on this team to find a DE here at home.
Bulman/D.Robinson take over for Travis Johnson at tackle. Weaver is out the door. If Orakpo is available when we draft - GRAB HIM! I'm not so hot on Haynesworth coming here. I like him in Tennessee where we can start kicking HIS butt on a regular basis.

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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
LB. Coming into this season I thought we needed to run out and get one. I thought we didn't have enough. But I like Bently. I like Adibi. I like Ryans. I like Diles. You're drafting for depth here.
No argument here either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
DB. I want a big league safety. Another CB would be nice but with the personnel change we've recently made I'm a lot more comfortable.
I'm not in as much of a panic mode with the DBs as I used to be. I think Wilson and Ferguson make a decent pair back there. Wilson's the brains and Ferg is the muscle. I'm not so set on using our first pick on a FS as I used to be. I wouldn't yell and scream if we finally did that, but I won't yell and scream if we don't either.

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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
A note on smith. I don't know what you think about him. I argued early in the season that we didn't have the personnel to do much on defense. I thought we didn't have the speed. I think the injuries have allowed us to see some guys that can play. I think we're a few pieces short, but this is a team that is on the cusp of winning 12+ games.
The part that bothers me about this is that we had to get guys hurt to find out that the backups were just as good - maybe better. Is that due to Smith's inability to judge talent or something that our practice routines somehow mask. All the votes aren't counted regarding whether Smith is worthy to stay. AnthonyE said it right, we'll see during the off season what the story is.

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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
By the way. That was the proverbial turn. We took a right, and went around id.
I'm with Kubiak on this one. While we definitely took a step in the right direction, we still have work to do - make the playoffs - before we can say we've definitely "turned the corner".

Mike[/quote]
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Old 12-16-2008   #11
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Default Re: Proverbial Corner - NOW Believe what you've heard

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I hope we get a power-type back, of course I also hope Slaton is not the type of guy who doesn't like to share.
yeah, i agree. but what happen to ron dayne?
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Old 12-17-2008   #12
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Default Re: Proverbial Corner - NOW Believe what you've heard

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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
This ain't your dad's Texans. This wasn't the perfect game. Catches were dropped, field goals missed, blocking assignments blown and blocking assignments missed. That wasn't the problem with this team though. This wasn't about what was done wrong. This was about how we reacted. For the longest time this franchise has won the games that they played well. When an NFL team plays a perfect game, they win. That's a given.

This game was the constant changing of the field. This was the DT knifing into the backfield to tackle for a loss. For once this year, a win wasn't about the offense, but rather about the defense. Your Texans aren't supposed to win games when they only score 13 points. They are supposed to get blown out. Especially against a team that can run the ball like the Titans can. This game was scripted. This was going to be another tough loss. We were going to talk about the final 3 minutes, how we had the lead and blew the game. Instead, somebody flipped the script. They threw in Okoye and Johnson and Ryans and Slaton.

The kids are starting to carry this team... that's dangerous. This team just put the league on notice, you heard it hear first. One of the problems with this team has been the fact that our leaders weren't home grown. Until the last 3 years we had only drafted two leaders to this team. Now we've added Ryans and Mario and Slaton. The kids are growing up. We were always looking for outside talent, guys who for one reason or another weren't a good enough value on their old teams. And then looking to them to be the leaders. Not any more.

It has been easy to dismiss our wins this year. We didn't beat good teams. We didn't have what it took when we went against the league's best. You can't say that now. It has taken some time. It has taken a lot of time. It took some injuries too. Who knew that our young players would step in like they have. Oh and that guy Robinson? I might adopt him. He doesn't "make plays", he pushes. Collins wasn't right all game, and a big part of that was the pressure in his face. Robinson was collapsing the pocket from the top all day. I'm telling you, get a "Haynesworth" and you might be headed somewhere next year.

Here's how I see us set up next year.

Schaub is your guy. No question.

On the OL, you keep the tackles and Pitts. You are looking for a new C and RG.

In the backfield. Get a bruiser. Don't sleep on Slaton though. He is a legit every down guy. Spell him and get him 17+ touches a game. Every time he touches the ball he's a threat to break it for the distance.

WRs. You're set. Don't touch them, I love this mix. Same with TE.

DL. Mario is good, I like Okoye for what he does too. Get a game changer at DT. A Big guy that can push people, collapse the pocket and disrupt the run. (can you spell Haynesworth?). I'm not opposed to getting a DE but I'm not as desperate as some. I think if you can force the QB back a few yards we have the depth and talent on this team to find a DE here at home.

LB. Coming into this season I thought we needed to run out and get one. I thought we didn't have enough. But I like Bently. I like Adibi. I like Ryans. I like Diles. You're drafting for depth here.

DB. I want a big league safety. Another CB would be nice but with the personnel change we've recently made I'm a lot more comfortable.

A note on smith. I don't know what you think about him. I argued early in the season that we didn't have the personnel to do much on defense. I thought we didn't have the speed. I think the injuries have allowed us to see some guys that can play. I think we're a few pieces short, but this is a team that is on the cusp of winning 12+ games.

By the way. That was the proverbial turn. We took a right, and went around id.

Mike

Mike, that's what I'm talking about! Join the club of renewed optimism- actually I guess you already did after the GB game, didn't you. It's not founded on blind faith. Instead, the faith is built on evidence. Evidence that many can't see because they're clouded by previous disappointments and frustrations.

Go Texans! they're pretty good, they're fun and they're even lovable.
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Old 12-17-2008   #13
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Default Re: Proverbial Corner - NOW Believe what you've heard

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Mike, that's what I'm talking about! Join the club of renewed optimism- actually I guess you already did after the GB game, didn't you. It's not founded on blind faith. Instead, the faith is built on evidence. Evidence that many can't see because they're clouded by previous disappointments and frustrations.

Go Texans! they're pretty good, they're fun and they're even lovable.
Hey man. I said at the beginning of the season this was a team that was probably a 5-6 win team to start the season, by the end of the season we would be a much higher caliber team (I think I said we would turn into a 10-11 win team over the course of the season) and we'd finish with between 7-9 wins. I know that wasn't rocket science, but I'd like to think that I haven't rode the pendillum too far either way. I've always been optimitic about the future, just not sure where we were in the present. Like I said this is a team that is begging for a few moves to be made and they will win 12 games next year. It reminds me of the Tenn teams after they moved from Houston. I think they went 8-8 for three years in a row then all of a sudden they were a force for several years. 6 wins 8 wins and then between 7 to 9 wins.. then who knows... I can't wait for the offseason. (Then again, on madden I sim through the year to get to the offseason).

Mike
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Old 12-17-2008   #14
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Default Re: Proverbial Corner - NOW Believe what you've heard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
This ain't your dad's Texans. This wasn't the perfect game. Catches were dropped, field goals missed, blocking assignments blown and blocking assignments missed. That wasn't the problem with this team though. This wasn't about what was done wrong. This was about how we reacted. For the longest time this franchise has won the games that they played well. When an NFL team plays a perfect game, they win. That's a given.

This game was the constant changing of the field. This was the DT knifing into the backfield to tackle for a loss. For once this year, a win wasn't about the offense, but rather about the defense. Your Texans aren't supposed to win games when they only score 13 points. They are supposed to get blown out. Especially against a team that can run the ball like the Titans can. This game was scripted. This was going to be another tough loss. We were going to talk about the final 3 minutes, how we had the lead and blew the game. Instead, somebody flipped the script. They threw in Okoye and Johnson and Ryans and Slaton.

The kids are starting to carry this team... that's dangerous. This team just put the league on notice, you heard it hear first. One of the problems with this team has been the fact that our leaders weren't home grown. Until the last 3 years we had only drafted two leaders to this team. Now we've added Ryans and Mario and Slaton. The kids are growing up. We were always looking for outside talent, guys who for one reason or another weren't a good enough value on their old teams. And then looking to them to be the leaders. Not any more.

It has been easy to dismiss our wins this year. We didn't beat good teams. We didn't have what it took when we went against the league's best. You can't say that now. It has taken some time. It has taken a lot of time. It took some injuries too. Who knew that our young players would step in like they have. Oh and that guy Robinson? I might adopt him. He doesn't "make plays", he pushes. Collins wasn't right all game, and a big part of that was the pressure in his face. Robinson was collapsing the pocket from the top all day. I'm telling you, get a "Haynesworth" and you might be headed somewhere next year.

Here's how I see us set up next year.

Schaub is your guy. No question.

On the OL, you keep the tackles and Pitts. You are looking for a new C and RG.

In the backfield. Get a bruiser. Don't sleep on Slaton though. He is a legit every down guy. Spell him and get him 17+ touches a game. Every time he touches the ball he's a threat to break it for the distance.

WRs. You're set. Don't touch them, I love this mix. Same with TE.

DL. Mario is good, I like Okoye for what he does too. Get a game changer at DT. A Big guy that can push people, collapse the pocket and disrupt the run. (can you spell Haynesworth?). I'm not opposed to getting a DE but I'm not as desperate as some. I think if you can force the QB back a few yards we have the depth and talent on this team to find a DE here at home.

LB. Coming into this season I thought we needed to run out and get one. I thought we didn't have enough. But I like Bently. I like Adibi. I like Ryans. I like Diles. You're drafting for depth here.

DB. I want a big league safety. Another CB would be nice but with the personnel change we've recently made I'm a lot more comfortable.

A note on smith. I don't know what you think about him. I argued early in the season that we didn't have the personnel to do much on defense. I thought we didn't have the speed. I think the injuries have allowed us to see some guys that can play. I think we're a few pieces short, but this is a team that is on the cusp of winning 12+ games.

By the way. That was the proverbial turn. We took a right, and went around id.

Mike
well, basically Sundays game is a good example of how a 13-12 game is more fun than a 35-34 game because in the high scoring game the defense doesn't show up, and that is always aggravating. I enjoy good defensive football personally. When the D shows up this team is fun to watch.
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Old 12-17-2008   #15
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Default Re: Proverbial Corner - NOW Believe what you've heard

Vinny, what are your thoughts on Winston? Although a lot of folks on here seem to think he's above average, I can think of at least one play each game where he gets beat terribly and the QB pays for it.

That said, I think C and RG need an upgrade as well.
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Old 12-17-2008   #16
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Default Re: Proverbial Corner - NOW Believe what you've heard

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Vinny, what are your thoughts on Winston? Although a lot of folks on here seem to think he's above average, I can think of at least one play each game where he gets beat terribly and the QB pays for it.

That said, I think C and RG need an upgrade as well.
a little above average but I was expecting a borderline pro bowler this season. He does get beat inside quite a bit when the team runs to the left so that is a bit problematic when it comes to being a Guard. He has been a little inconsistent with speed rushers but on balance he has done a decent job....Kearse took him to school last week though.
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Old 12-17-2008   #17
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Default Re: Proverbial Corner - NOW Believe what you've heard

Texan Mike -

Not to quibble, but I'll quibble with you a little. I'd say that we've conclusively shown that we're not a big steaming pile of crap. We've shown that we're not the Bengals or Lions or Rams. But to me, that's not enough to say we've "Turned the corner."

The proverbial Corner is being relevant in the playoff picture. Until we have quality wins while still in playoff contention (I"m not talking about just being mathematically alive), we've not turned the corner.

If there's a phrase I'd use to describe our accomplishments in the last month, I'd not say we've turned the corner. That evokes a sense of arrival or accomplishment. I'd say that in the last month, we've shown we have the potential to be good.

We don't turn the corner until next year, and we start the season at at 2-2, 3-3 or 4-4 (or better), and sport one or two quality wins in the process. That would mean we have left our current state behind. We'd really be in contention, rather than just mathmatically alive and needing an unlikely run of wins just to get back to .500.

(All that said, I'm excited as hell about the future because it's better than the outlooks of the past. We have better players and have played at a level never previously reached. That's a credit to our current state, and a terrible indictment of where we've been).
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Old 12-17-2008   #18
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Default Re: Proverbial Corner - NOW Believe what you've heard

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Texan Mike -

Not to quibble, but I'll quibble with you a little. I'd say that we've conclusively shown that we're not a big steaming pile of crap. We've shown that we're not the Bengals or Lions or Rams. But to me, that's not enough to say we've "Turned the corner."

The proverbial Corner is being relevant in the playoff picture. Until we have quality wins while still in playoff contention (I"m not talking about just being mathematically alive), we've not turned the corner.

If there's a phrase I'd use to describe our accomplishments in the last month, I'd not say we've turned the corner. That evokes a sense of arrival or accomplishment. I'd say that in the last month, we've shown we have the potential to be good.

We don't turn the corner until next year, and we start the season at at 2-2, 3-3 or 4-4 (or better), and sport one or two quality wins in the process. That would mean we have left our current state behind. We'd really be in contention, rather than just mathmatically alive and needing an unlikely run of wins just to get back to .500.

(All that said, I'm excited as hell about the future because it's better than the outlooks of the past. We have better players and have played at a level never previously reached. That's a credit to our current state, and a terrible indictment of where we've been).

You're confusing "results" of the season with the "quality" of the team. When Buffalo was 5-1 earlier this year, I was arguing that they weren't a good team. Yes, they were having a successful season but they just weren't very good- circumstances were working well and they were fortunate and playing fairly well. The Miami Dolphins aren't a good football team but they're playing okay and having a heck of a season.

We, right now, are a good football team. Unfortunately, because of a perfect storm that happened in September, this season won't be ultimately successful.
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Old 12-17-2008   #19
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Default Re: Proverbial Corner - NOW Believe what you've heard

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Texan Mike -

Not to quibble, but I'll quibble with you a little. I'd say that we've conclusively shown that we're not a big steaming pile of crap. We've shown that we're not the Bengals or Lions or Rams. But to me, that's not enough to say we've "Turned the corner."

The proverbial Corner is being relevant in the playoff picture. Until we have quality wins while still in playoff contention (I"m not talking about just being mathematically alive), we've not turned the corner.

If there's a phrase I'd use to describe our accomplishments in the last month, I'd not say we've turned the corner. That evokes a sense of arrival or accomplishment. I'd say that in the last month, we've shown we have the potential to be good.

We don't turn the corner until next year, and we start the season at at 2-2, 3-3 or 4-4 (or better), and sport one or two quality wins in the process. That would mean we have left our current state behind. We'd really be in contention, rather than just mathmatically alive and needing an unlikely run of wins just to get back to .500.

(All that said, I'm excited as hell about the future because it's better than the outlooks of the past. We have better players and have played at a level never previously reached. That's a credit to our current state, and a terrible indictment of where we've been).
When I speak about turning the corner I was less concerned with our win total this year than most. This team has been aflicted with the "losing" disease for quite some time.

I wanted to see the talent on this team make that crucial transistion from a talented group of individuals to a cohesive unit that exploited our strengths and covered up our weaknesses. I didn't think the defense would come this far along actually, and I honestly think they are playing above their ability for the time being. But then again we know how I feel about the defense and what a difference a DT will make.

I think we've seen that. I think that on offense we're starting to see Andre and Kevin really get comfortable and on the same page with Schaub. I think the OL, while lacking a little in pass protection is finally starting to gel in the running game.

On defense, over the past 3 weeks or so, I've seen the middle of the line start collapsing the pocket from the top leaving the QB to move laterally and expose himself to Mario or another DE or LB. The LB's seem to be in position and shedding blocks as they knife through to stop the run and the DB's seem to have found their rythm. Our safetys were often way out of position (that's the only logical explanation) early in the season and we were hanging corners out to dry. The pocked collapsing from the top moves the launch point, even if its just a few feet, and disrupts timing. I know Kerry Collins is no Pro Bowl QB but he looked really bad throwing off of his back foot and some of that was pressure. He knows the reputation that Mario has, he knows what Mario can do... so he migrates to one side or the other and tries to throw the ball before he's ready.

These are the kind of steps I wanted to see. Making plays on the DL, tackles for losses. The kids are making plays. Everyone is contributing. We've stood around and looked to the vets (from other teams in most cases) to make plays. Now its the home grown, maturing players, who are making those plays.

I said at the beginning of the year that I thought we would start the season as a 5-6 win team and progress to a 10 or so win team. I think we've done that. If 2009 started tomorrow I would pick this team as it is today to win 10 games. At no point in our history have I ever said that. I'm not a bandwagon optimist by any stretch of the imagination but if we make a few crucial moves in the offseason you may see us win the division next year. And the next time you see me say that will be the second.

I suppose we just have different expectations.

Mike
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Old 12-17-2008   #20
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Default Re: Proverbial Corner - NOW Believe what you've heard

We've put togeather a four game winning streak. In order we beat a bad team (Cleveland), a falling team (jacksonville), a mediocre team (Green Bay) and the team with the best record in the NFL (the hated inbreds).

Not only is it the longest win streak we've ever had, it also included a mediocre team like us and a so called better team. Just that alone means we are in the turning lane, but haven't actually turned yet.

If we keep it togeather and end up with a six game winning streak and finish the season at 9-7, then yeah, we've turned the corner.
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