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Old 12-11-2008   #1
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Default Does the 3 year rule apply to Schaub?

Many coaches and analyst think that great or elite QB's make a big transition in thier 3rd year.

What is everyones opinion of how this applys to Schaub. I always understood that this applied to QB's entering thier 3rd year as the starter regardless of thier number of years in the NFL.

Thoughts?
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Old 12-11-2008   #2
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Default Re: Does the 3 year rule apply to Schaub?

There is no question he has the potential to be an excellent QB. His accuracy, vision and decision making (for the most) part suggest a chance for greatness. He's been hurt and has yet to play a full season. He's basically played two half-seasons so I'm not ready to say he'll become elite next year but there is no question in my mind that he has the tools. As the overall system becomes more and more oiled you can expect to see his numbers to continue to be top 5.

He is a very good quarterback.
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Old 12-11-2008   #3
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Default Re: Does the 3 year rule apply to Schaub?

I'll say this:

I have been a very, very, very tough critic on Schaub.

But the game he cranked out last Sunday vs. GB...now THAT is what I expected from him when we acquired him. THAT was the Schaub who handily beat the Chiefs and Panthers in the first two games last year.

If Schaub doesn't regress in these last games...he's going to make it. Barring some injury, which seems to find the guy a lot, he's going to completely erase what I have thought about him.

I just have not seen the guy play the way he played vs. GB. That was a ballsy performance despite how many times we didn't hit paydirt and allowed GB to claw back into the game each time.
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Old 12-11-2008   #4
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Default Re: Does the 3 year rule apply to Schaub?

I think Schaub would've turned he proverbial corner much earlier if injuries haven't derailed his progress. Good news is it looks like he has used the time between injuries well. Might not have a cannon arm but outside that he's got all the tools to be a top tier QB. The commitment now has to be in finishing the OL by the front office.
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Old 12-11-2008   #5
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Default Re: Does the 3 year rule apply to Schaub?

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
I'll say this:

I have been a very, very, very tough critic on Schaub.

But the game he cranked out last Sunday vs. GB...now THAT is what I expected from him when we acquired him. THAT was the Schaub who handily beat the Chiefs and Panthers in the first two games last year.
When you say you expected this from him, how do you mean? Like every once in a while? Because that's not something that ANY quarterback can do on a regular basis. It's not like Schaub was a HoFamer in waiting... he's potentially a very good QB who I think could even make a pro bowl or two.

It's all about health with Schaub, of course... but the thing I point to that makes me continue to think he's the guy (which I've always thought he was), is that twice now he's led the team down in final two-minute, game-winning drives. That's just not something all QBs can do.

He's done it twice this year, plus a game-tying drive in Jacksonville... and if they'd won the coin toss... I think a lot of us agree we were headed for a win.

So that's two game-winning drives in the last two minutes, and one game-tying drive... out of only EIGHT GAMES that he's started. I bet not even Hall of Fame QBs have a much higher percentage in a given single season.

Translation - he's not just good - he's a WINNER. He just has to stay healthy.
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Old 12-11-2008   #6
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Default Re: Does the 3 year rule apply to Schaub?

He is very good when he gets hot. He also recovers from mistakes well. Too bad he gets boomed all the time. Just protect him, and play to his strengths, and he will be good. Just not great( top tier)
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Old 12-11-2008   #7
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Default Re: Does the 3 year rule apply to Schaub?

when he is healthy....he's highly accurate and productive.

Third year...you start looking for prospects and pick one in '09 or '10.

He has been hurt two years running. One more year and it's more than a trend. We're four deep with guys who can cover OLT...and me and beerlover are arguing over when to take one in the draft in April. We don't mind over stocking offensive lineman with his injury history. His "pay me" money kicks in in '10. Better have a plan and your ducks in a row. The question they'll have to answer in '10 is , is he worth ten million a year ?


We can go to the SB with MS....if we can keep him clean. Or have a great back up on the roster.

The only question they have with QB position is will Sage Quit pressing and except his roll as the back up. Every time Sage presses, bad things happen. If the answer is no, you let him walk and start over with a back up. I can forgive him Rosencopter....but only if he promises never, ever, to do it again. I don't know if he can do that or not.
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Old 12-11-2008   #8
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Default Re: Does the 3 year rule apply to Schaub?

Forgot to add - a good performance against the Titans would help. Schaub has yet to do well against one of these super-aggressive, intensely-physical defenses.
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Old 12-11-2008   #9
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Default Re: Does the 3 year rule apply to Schaub?

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Originally Posted by DiehardChris View Post
Forgot to add - a good performance against the Titans would help. Schaub has yet to do well against one of these super-aggressive, intensely-physical defenses.

Not just Schub, the whole team. Until the Texans prove they can beat the good teams, we are what we are. I think Schaub has proved that as long as he is standing upright, he is a very good QB.
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Old 12-11-2008   #10
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Default Re: Does the 3 year rule apply to Schaub?

Seems his fragility has been brought up quite a few times, resonably so, but those have been some major hits on him. Flip side of "is he fragile" question would then be - can he not break free of the pass rush or does he not feel when to move up, back, over, or just run?
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Old 12-11-2008   #11
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Default Re: Does the 3 year rule apply to Schaub?

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Originally Posted by OzzO View Post
Seems his fragility has been brought up quite a few times, resonably so, but those have been some major hits on him. Flip side of "is he fragile" question would then be - can he not break free of the pass rush or does he not feel when to move up, back, over, or just run?
My major question after putting the green bay game away on DVD this morning...do we have a tell when we run the waggle (runing back off takle fake dive, QB reverse piviots on a naked boot leg.). Is one of our guys giving the play away, telegraphing something pre snap ? I know Mike McCarthy is a WCO guru....but that was some highly productive guessing Sunday.
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Old 12-11-2008   #12
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Default Re: Does the 3 year rule apply to Schaub?

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Originally Posted by DiehardChris View Post
When you say you expected this from him, how do you mean? Like every once in a while? Because that's not something that ANY quarterback can do on a regular basis. It's not like Schaub was a HoFamer in waiting... he's potentially a very good QB who I think could even make a pro bowl or two.

It's all about health with Schaub, of course... but the thing I point to that makes me continue to think he's the guy (which I've always thought he was), is that twice now he's led the team down in final two-minute, game-winning drives. That's just not something all QBs can do.

He's done it twice this year, plus a game-tying drive in Jacksonville... and if they'd won the coin toss... I think a lot of us agree we were headed for a win.

So that's two game-winning drives in the last two minutes, and one game-tying drive... out of only EIGHT GAMES that he's started. I bet not even Hall of Fame QBs have a much higher percentage in a given single season.

Translation - he's not just good - he's a WINNER. He just has to stay healthy.
When you give up 2 second rounders, for two straight drafts, you're saying that the guy is supposed to be pretty good. Otherwise, draft and cross your fingers.

He looked good in the first two games of last season, but in my opinion he was pretty average the rest of the way. Throw in the injuries and missed games, and it gets to be a toe-tapping situation considering what we gave up for him.

2 second rounders, for a team needing younger/better guys at so many positions, was a steep price.

He played smart against GB: He threw it away when he needed to, he hung in the pocket even when getting pressured. He took a hit and popped back up. And most importantly, he drove us down the field and refused to make the mental mistake that has plagued Texans QBs, especially on the road.

GB is nails, and looks a lot like our team right now. Playing in Lambeau, and coming out a winner? This is the kind of crow I like to eat, not when we were beating up on Dolphins/Lions/Bengals.
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Old 12-11-2008   #13
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Default Re: Does the 3 year rule apply to Schaub?

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This is the kind of crow I like to eat, not when we were beating up on Dolphins/Lions/Bengals.
You do realize the Dolphins are 8-5 right?
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Old 12-11-2008   #14
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Default Re: Does the 3 year rule apply to Schaub?

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
I'll say this:

I have been a very, very, very tough critic on Schaub.

But the game he cranked out last Sunday vs. GB...now THAT is what I expected from him when we acquired him. THAT was the Schaub who handily beat the Chiefs and Panthers in the first two games last year.
If a QB throws for 250 yards and 2 TDs a game, that's 4000 yards and 32 TDs for the season. There are VERY, VERY FEW QBs that do that in a year, much less consistently.
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Old 12-11-2008   #15
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Default Re: Does the 3 year rule apply to Schaub?

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Originally Posted by OzzO View Post
Seems his fragility has been brought up quite a few times, resonably so, but those have been some major hits on him. Flip side of "is he fragile" question would then be - [b]can he not break free of the pass rush or does he not feel when to move up, back, over, or just run?{/B]
This has been my major "gripe" about the guy. But i have been told he has no problem with footwork or anything like that. I definitely think he has those issues of not feeling where the pressure is, how close it is to him, and how to adjust even just a tiny little bit to stay upright long enough to throw.

However...he looked better in the GB game than any of the other games dating back to a long, long time ago. I saw him keeping his balance, keeping his shoulders square and generally getting the ball out when he should have. He didn't do that in the games where he's been injured by a pass rusher.

That's why Haynesworth is so open about saying what he has said about Schaub: "Get to Matt and he crumbles under the harassment." Well, I think Albert is not counting on the Texans learning from the previous meetings. Based on what I saw in the game vs. GB...things are turning around.

I think this is the game where the silliness ends. I don't normally come out and say "This game is ours." I only do it when I se the signs. The signs point toward a home game, a QB who stayed upright in Lambeau and came out the victor after several turnovers out of his control, and the Titans having locked up a first-round bye and thinking that we're "The Same Old Texans! LOL!"

I think we have a team that is frustrated that they didn't play better the first part of the season, and they are taking it out on the remaining opponents. They are trying to end this season the way they know they should have STARTED this season. Normally, we see this sort of attitude out of the guys in the very last game: We get excited, and we think that it means something. I think this year, we're seeing this team string together a whole bunch of wins at the end of the season to make the statement of "We're going to start out THE RIGHT WAY next season."

I thought Kubiak was on the ropes. I thought Schaub was on the ropes. I wondered if things might not spiral downward toward the end of the season. Well, this thing is a-l-i-v-e. It's like Hulkamania, bruther.
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Old 12-11-2008   #16
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Default Re: Does the 3 year rule apply to Schaub?

Schaub is a good QB and will get even better if we improve our O-line at C and RG. Improvement could come in the form of new draft picks or getting Myers and Brisiel to each bulk up with about 15 lbs. of muscle. Both of these guys have the skills to be good O-linemen but lack the size. If you improve the O-line and protection, Schaub will lead us to the playoffs. As for bulking up Schaub a good weight lifting program would do him good as well. With a little more muscle Schaub would be able to stand the hits/punishment better.
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Old 12-11-2008   #17
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Default Re: Does the 3 year rule apply to Schaub?

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You do realize the Dolphins are 8-5 right?
And I don't know why. I mean, I have Ronnie Brown on my fantasy football league...so I keep up with their games...and it's amazing. I really don't think they are all that good.

WINS (8):

They beat the Patriots (1) early in the season, but the Patriots have been squirrely this year. Beat SD (2) , but the same can be said for how SD played early this year. I think they caught those teams at just the right time.

Beat the Bills twice (3 and 4), but that's not anything special.

Beat the Broncos (5), but the Broncos seem to take every-other-game off. There isn't any more Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde team than Denver right now.

Beat the Seahawks (6) , so no need to type any more about that one. Same goes for them beating Oakland (7) and St. Louis (8). It's expected.

LOSSES (5):

Lost to the Jets and the Cardinals (1 and 2).

They took us to the wire, and probably should have won (3).

Lost to Baltimore (4) and New England (5) once NE revived a little bit from a tough start of the season.

I'd say 5 of those wins were against poor opponents: Oakland, St. Louis, Seahawks, and Bills (twice). Throw in the way SD and NE are this year, and there's another 2 wins that are not really an indication of how "good" Miami is.

I say Miami is a lot like us, but they just took advantage of thinsg better than we did. I also think Hurricane Ike was a big reason behind our bad start. I'm up in the very very northern part of Texas, so I didn't experience the damage, the pain, and the blow to the psyche of all of ya'll down there. But this team was probably not even caring that much about winning/losing during that time. Sure, you can suck it up and try. But...damn, those games and these games sure seem to have different paths.
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Old 12-11-2008   #18
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Default Re: Does the 3 year rule apply to Schaub?

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If a QB throws for 250 yards and 2 TDs a game, that's 4000 yards and 32 TDs for the season. There are VERY, VERY FEW QBs that do that in a year, much less consistently.
Schaub has had his fair share of turnovers that doesn't get mentioned much, and that impacts the games. Yeah, a QB isn't going to "wow" all season long...buthe needs to protect the ball, throw it away when necessary, tuck it and run at the right times, etc.

Schaub was trying to do too much, too often. It's a great character trait and a bad one all at the same time as an NFL QB.

He found that happy balance vs. GB. A lot of people think I want to see Schaub fail, that I'd be glad if he got hurt. Completely untrue. I was geeked out of my mind by the time the game was over. Haven't felt that way since we beat the Colts at Reliant on the leg of Kris Brown.

That was, for me, one of the best Texans games ever. And I think it had a lot to do with the QB doing whatever he could, but also knowing his limits.
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Old 12-11-2008   #19
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Default Re: Does the 3 year rule apply to Schaub?

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Schaub has had his fair share of turnovers that doesn't get mentioned much, and that impacts the games. Yeah, a QB isn't going to "wow" all season long...buthe needs to protect the ball, throw it away when necessary, tuck it and run at the right times, etc.

Schaub was trying to do too much, too often. It's a great character trait and a bad one all at the same time as an NFL QB.
Have you actually examined the season for Schaub? He started the season against the currently #1 and #3 defenses. In those two games it was horrible team wide (remember AJ with three dropped TD's) and Schaub contributed to that.

First 2 games: 195 ypg, 1 TD, 5 INT, 8 sacks, QB rating 50.3.

Since then: 298 ypg, 11 TD's, 4 INT's, 9 sacks, QB rating 108.2.
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Old 12-11-2008   #20
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Default Re: Does the 3 year rule apply to Schaub?

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Schaub has had his fair share of turnovers that doesn't get mentioned much, and that impacts the games. Yeah, a QB isn't going to "wow" all season long...buthe needs to protect the ball, throw it away when necessary, tuck it and run at the right times, etc.

Schaub was trying to do too much, too often. It's a great character trait and a bad one all at the same time as an NFL QB.

He found that happy balance vs. GB. A lot of people think I want to see Schaub fail, that I'd be glad if he got hurt. Completely untrue. I was geeked out of my mind by the time the game was over. Haven't felt that way since we beat the Colts at Reliant on the leg of Kris Brown.

That was, for me, one of the best Texans games ever. And I think it had a lot to do with the QB doing whatever he could, but also knowing his limits.
Hey, I've been banging the turnover drum all season long. People want to blame Kubiak or others, and I've been saying all along the #1 reason we've been losing is turnovers from one position - the QB. So I agree with that. I'm just saying that 4000 yards and 32 TDs is a bit unrealistic for expectations. We can't expect to see 414 yards passing very often.
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