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Old 12-10-2008   #1
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Default Tebow ought to be out of the running for the heismann, here's why:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfQm1Lg_8oA

The Tim Tebow song. even has it's own damn website where you can download it. while listening to this song, remember, down the road not across the street.
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Old 12-10-2008   #2
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Default Re: Tebow ought to be out of the running for the heismann, here's why:

Well, unfortunately for you, he is a finalist...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3760910

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Tim Tebow will go for two against a pair of talented quarterbacks from the Big 12 when the Heisman Trophy is handed out Saturday night.

Sam Bradford from Oklahoma and Colt McCoy from Texas joined Tebow as Heisman finalists announced Wednesday.
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Old 12-10-2008   #3
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Default Re: Tebow ought to be out of the running for the heismann, here's why:

The guy in the jersey reminds me of Jim McMahon.
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Old 12-10-2008   #4
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Default Re: Tebow ought to be out of the running for the heismann, here's why:

The Heisman trophy is a freakin joke. What a coincidence that the most outstanding player in college football has been a RB or a QB 69 out of the last 73 years. And funny how that guy happens to play for a perennial powerhouse 95% of the time.

Just one more reason that college football sucks compared to the NFL.
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Old 12-10-2008   #5
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Default Re: Tebow ought to be out of the running for the heismann, here's why:

Not trying to be a big 12 homer, but I am a bit surprised Tebow is in there and not Graham Harrell. Sure Tebow is a good college QB, but for him to be there and not GH doesn't sound right IMO. Really though, i'm not sure it matters I think Bradford gets it and deservedly so. And i'm a UT fan. I would like to see it go to Colt, but you can't deny what Bradford has done. And if Tebow wins, that will be completely effed up.
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Old 12-10-2008   #6
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Default Re: Tebow ought to be out of the running for the heismann, here's why:

while I DO understand that the Heisman is the best COLLEGE player

And while I do know there are players all the time that their College game doesn't match well with the NFL game

I find it interesting how many players winning it become players that basically don't make a scratch in the NFL game

http://www.heisman.com/winners/hsmn-winners.html

Just looking at the surface, one would deduct that if a player was that good in college, he would do at least semi-decent in the PRO game
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Old 12-10-2008   #7
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Default Re: Tebow ought to be out of the running for the heismann, here's why:

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Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
while I DO understand that the Heisman is the best COLLEGE player

And while I do know there are players all the time that their College game doesn't match well with the NFL game

I find it interesting how many players winning it become players that basically don't make a scratch in the NFL game

http://www.heisman.com/winners/hsmn-winners.html

Just looking at the surface, one would deduct that if a player was that good in college, he would do at least semi-decent in the PRO game
Yeah I know, it's almost as if it's a curse, only there are some who do well. But just thinking back who is the last Heisman winner that was a Quarterback who did well in the NFL? I should have clicked your link first.

**edit, okay i'm an ***** I forgot about Palmer. But looking at the list it's glaring how many really did not translate well to the nfl.
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Old 12-10-2008   #8
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Default Re: Tebow ought to be out of the running for the heismann, here's why:

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Originally Posted by headsplint View Post
Yeah I know, it's almost as if it's a curse, only there are some who do well. But just thinking back who is the last Heisman winner that was a Quarterback who did well in the NFL? I should have clicked your link first.
Carson Palmer I guess you could say and before that Troy Aikman
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Old 12-10-2008   #9
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Default Re: Tebow ought to be out of the running for the heismann, here's why:

Tebow will be less than nothing in the NFL

Let him have his glory
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Old 12-11-2008   #10
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Default Re: Tebow ought to be out of the running for the heismann, here's why:

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Originally Posted by dc_txtech View Post
The Heisman trophy is a freakin joke. What a coincidence that the most outstanding player in college football has been a RB or a QB 69 out of the last 73 years. And funny how that guy happens to play for a perennial powerhouse 95% of the time.

Just one more reason that college football sucks compared to the NFL.
Everyone knows the Heisman voting is ridiculous.

Tebow jumped Harrell in the voting because of the way Florida played down the stretch compared to how Tech played.

Tech players won't shake that "system offense" moniker unless they make it to the big time. This year was probably their best chance.
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Old 12-11-2008   #11
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Default Re: Tebow ought to be out of the running for the heismann, here's why:

The fact that Tech gets labelled as a system offense, while UT and Florida doesn't is a joke. The zone option running game out of the spread is every bit the "system" as Tech's short passing/long hand-off attack. In fact Tebow's numbers last year where the most system generated numbers in the history of college football and he still got the Heisman.

All of these guys had bad games, Harrell just had his last so he gets the shafting. If Harrell played at any of the big name programs not only would he have gotten the invite, he'd probably walk away with the award.
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Old 12-11-2008   #12
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Default Re: Tebow ought to be out of the running for the heismann, here's why:

Tebow is still pretty outstanding.

A lot of time the winner of the heisman wins it purely based on his physical ability. In college you can still get by on your physical talents. Even for non heisman winners. The college takes just as much smarts as it does physicallness (word?).

It's just like the jump from high school to college. You can have outstanding HS players that just don't do as well in college. Like the 5 star recruits that don't pan out. Sometimes players just peak at different times.
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Old 12-11-2008   #13
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Default Re: Tebow ought to be out of the running for the heismann, here's why:

The way I look at it is how each team would do without said player. IMO, Tech and Oklahoma would still be very good football teams due to the "system"(Tech) and the players that surround them (Oklahoma). Texas and Florida would not be as productive as they are with their players.

IMO, it should go to Colt. Out of the candidates he's the one that meant more to his team than the others.

I doubt he'll get it, but I just thought I'd throw my .02 out there.
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Old 12-11-2008   #14
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Default Re: Tebow ought to be out of the running for the heismann, here's why:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy View Post
The fact that Tech gets labelled as a system offense, while UT and Florida doesn't is a joke. The zone option running game out of the spread is every bit the "system" as Tech's short passing/long hand-off attack. In fact Tebow's numbers last year where the most system generated numbers in the history of college football and he still got the Heisman.

All of these guys had bad games, Harrell just had his last so he gets the shafting. If Harrell played at any of the big name programs not only would he have gotten the invite, he'd probably walk away with the award.
I think Harrell lost it in the Baylor game to be honest.

He was not nearly as effective when Crabtree went down (as expected). Crabtree is more valuable to Tech's offense, and he is the most talented player on the team.

If any of Tech's players got snubbed, it is Crabtree.
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Old 12-11-2008   #15
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Default Re: Tebow ought to be out of the running for the heismann, here's why:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy View Post
The fact that Tech gets labelled as a system offense, while UT and Florida doesn't is a joke. The zone option running game out of the spread is every bit the "system" as Tech's short passing/long hand-off attack. In fact Tebow's numbers last year where the most system generated numbers in the history of college football and he still got the Heisman.

All of these guys had bad games, Harrell just had his last so he gets the shafting. If Harrell played at any of the big name programs not only would he have gotten the invite, he'd probably walk away with the award.
The reason Tech gets the "system offense" moniker is because they throw on nearly every down.

Their stats are devalued because they are inflated by the offense they run.

Texas and Florida each run a spread offense, but they have much more balance between run and pass.
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Old 12-11-2008   #16
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Default Re: Tebow ought to be out of the running for the heismann, here's why:

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
The reason Tech gets the "system offense" moniker is because they throw on nearly every down.

Their stats are devalued because they are inflated by the offense they run.

Texas and Florida each run a spread offense, but they have much more balance between run and pass.
Tech was more balanced this year then any any previous year under Leach.

Eric Crouch won the Heismen, and at the time Nebraska ran the ball nearly everydown. Were his stats devalued? Andre Ware and Ty Detmer won the ball throwing it more then Harrell did. Were their stats devalued? Colt's and Tebow's running numbers are generated by the zone option read, a system, should their stats be devalued?

I never thought Harrell was going to win the award, but he was certainly worthy of an invite.
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Old 12-11-2008   #17
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Default Re: Tebow ought to be out of the running for the heismann, here's why:

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Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy View Post
Tech was more balanced this year then any any previous year under Leach.

Eric Crouch won the Heismen, and at the time Nebraska ran the ball nearly everydown. Were his stats devalued? Andre Ware and Ty Detmer won the ball throwing it more then Harrell did. Were their stats devalued? Colt's and Tebow's running numbers are generated by the zone option read, a system, should their stats be devalued?

I never thought Harrell was going to win the award, but he was certainly worthy of an invite.
I'm not gonna say it's fair, because it's not. It just is what it is.

I heard on Mike and Mike this morning that one possibility is that he is gonna be such a distant fourth in the voting they didn't want him to show up thinking he has a shot and then be embarrassed when he comes away with hardly any votes.

They only invite the people who have a realistic chance of winning. Whether Harrell gets invited or not, he is still going to finish in fourth place, meaning he has no shot at winning.
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Old 12-11-2008   #18
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Default Re: Tebow ought to be out of the running for the heismann, here's why:

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Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy View Post
Tech was more balanced this year then any any previous year under Leach.

Eric Crouch won the Heismen, and at the time Nebraska ran the ball nearly everydown. Were his stats devalued? Andre Ware and Ty Detmer won the ball throwing it more then Harrell did. Were their stats devalued? Colt's and Tebow's running numbers are generated by the zone option read, a system, should their stats be devalued?

I never thought Harrell was going to win the award, but he was certainly worthy of an invite.
You made good points throughout this post but this was not one of them.

The zone read is just one play in the spread offense. The spread is the "system" of offense.

I don't know many times Tebow keeps the ball on the zone read, but Colt only does it two or three times per game. Most of his runs are on draws and scrambles, plays that every other team runs.
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Old 12-11-2008   #19
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Default Re: Tebow ought to be out of the running for the heismann, here's why:

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
You made good points throughout this post but this was not one of them.

The zone read is just one play in the spread offense. The spread is the "system" of offense.

I don't know many times Tebow keeps the ball on the zone read, but Colt only does it two or three times per game. Most of his runs are on draws and scrambles, plays that every other team runs.
I think it's safe to say that there is developing a divergence in what is known as the spread offense, the teams that use the zone option read as part of their spread, ala UT, Florida, etc and those teams that run the traditional spread, ala Tech, Missouri, etc.

I'd classify both as "systems", or at the very least distant cousins under the same system.

But they, and the numbers it can generate for the QBs, are still systems.
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Old 12-11-2008   #20
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Default Re: Tebow ought to be out of the running for the heismann, here's why:

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The way I look at it is how each team would do without said player. IMO, Tech and Oklahoma would still be very good football teams due to the "system"(Tech) and the players that surround them (Oklahoma). Texas and Florida would not be as productive as they are with their players.

IMO, it should go to Colt. Out of the candidates he's the one that meant more to his team than the others.

I doubt he'll get it, but I just thought I'd throw my .02 out there.
That's more indicative of a most valuable player (MVP) award than the heisman (most oustanding college player). I think for the heisman, you have to look at it in all sorts of ways. Just stats wont tell the picture, you gotta look at so many different qualities of the person, team, opponents, stats, etc. But I think how your looking at it is definitely a very important part.
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