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Old 12-04-2008   #1
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Default Second Guess: Mayock

I didn't see this posted anywhere but...

On NFL Total Access, they had a piece on Second Guesses. And Mike Mayock second guessed himself. He said that he had a 4th round grade on Steve Slaton and he was wrong. He said that Slaton at the 89th pick has totally outperformed most of the other 10 running backs taken before him including/especially McFadden.
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Old 12-04-2008   #2
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Default Re: Second Guess: Mayock

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
I didn't see this posted anywhere but...

On NFL Total Access, they had a piece on Second Guesses. And Mike Mayock second guessed himself. He said that he had a 4th round grade on Steve Slaton and he was wrong. He said that Slaton at the 89th pick has totally outperformed most of the other 10 running backs taken before him including/especially McFadden.
There was no question about who would have better value: McFadden at #4 or Slaton in the 3rd round.

I don't think Baltimore is second guessing their trade with us for Joe Flacco! I think that trade was a win-win for both teams.
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Old 12-04-2008   #3
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Default Re: Second Guess: Mayock

Man, we got Mario Williams, and Steve Slaton....


Now, all we need is a QB, and we can put the '06 draft behind us.
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Old 12-04-2008   #4
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Default Re: Second Guess: Mayock

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Man, we got Mario Williams, and Steve Slaton....


Now, all we need is a QB, and we can put the '06 draft behind us.
Why? That was our best draft class ever.
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Old 12-04-2008   #5
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Default Re: Second Guess: Mayock

People tend to forget (not taking anything away from Slaton), but in the last four years in Denver, Alex Gibbs had four different runningbacks gain more than 4.6 yards per carry.

It's partially Slaton, partially Gibbs ZBS.
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Old 12-04-2008   #6
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Default Re: Second Guess: Mayock

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Originally Posted by TEXANS84 View Post
People tend to forget (not taking anything away from Slaton), but in the last four years in Denver, Alex Gibbs had four different runningbacks gain more than 4.6 yards per carry.

It's partially Slaton, partially Gibbs ZBS.
Great post. Slaton is a perfect fit for his system, but the system makes guys look great. One more solid ZBS RB and we have a stable.
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Old 12-04-2008   #7
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Default Re: Second Guess: Mayock

I like Mayocks work on www.nfl and coverage of college players coming out for the Draft and appreciate his candor about being wrong.
BTW, as I recall Rashard Mendenhall was his top rated RB in the '08 Draft.
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Old 12-04-2008   #8
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Default Re: Second Guess: Mayock

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXANS84 View Post
People tend to forget (not taking anything away from Slaton), but in the last four years in Denver, Alex Gibbs had four different runningbacks gain more than 4.6 yards per carry.

It's partially Slaton, partially Gibbs ZBS.
Backups in Alex Gibbs' system did very well, sometimes better than the starter. Is Ahman Green the TJ Duckett to Slaton's Warrick Dunn?
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Old 12-04-2008   #9
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Default Re: Second Guess: Mayock

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXANS84 View Post
People tend to forget (not taking anything away from Slaton), but in the last four years in Denver, Alex Gibbs had four different runningbacks gain more than 4.6 yards per carry.

It's partially Slaton, partially Gibbs ZBS.
Good points. But you have to give credit to the little man. He never quits trying to move forward and that play where he drags 2 defenders into the endzone was just 1 of his amazing plays this year.
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Old 12-04-2008   #10
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Default Re: Second Guess: Mayock

Quote:
Originally Posted by mexican_texan View Post
Backups in Alex Gibbs' system did very well, sometimes better than the starter. Is Ahman Green the TJ Duckett to Slaton's Warrick Dunn?
Warrick Dunn was a player before and after Alex Gibbs....

While the zone scheme we run is RB friendly I hardly believe it's a big reason why Slaton is doing as well as he is. First of all we pretty much have no center (seriously the guy gets picked up and thrown into the backfield) and I still haven't seen any cut blocks, plus this is year 1 running this system with a rookie RB. The Denver system always produces solid runners, but Slaton is one of the runners (like Portis) who could have alot of success elsewhere as well.
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Old 12-04-2008   #11
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Default Re: Second Guess: Mayock

Gibbs has earned his paycheck pretty quickly. I do wonder about the lack of a short yardage attack, though, and I hope that this area will be improved as Gibbs gets more time to change the running game more.

None of the other Kubiak-drafted RBs did anything. But then again, Gibbs wasn't here yet. But then again again, Slaton might have done OK without Gibbs. ? I think Gibbs and Slaton are just a solid fit when you get right down to it. Slaton seems to be doing what's required of a ZBS running back: Get upfield (fast) and look for the seam and hit it without hesitating.

There should be a proper ratio for media analysts: They rant and rave for months before the draft about who is going to do well and who is overrated. They rant and rave during the combine, during the draft, and during camps. And then they make a quick mention of their goof ups on one night's program and that's atonement? How about Mayock repeatedly admitting his mistakes on every show he does until it equals how many times he originally ranted and ragged on a draft selection? 50% ratio would be OK, to me.

And we wonder why they are so loosey goosey with their opinions all the time. It's because they have virtually nobody to remind them of their wrong predictions. LOL. But nooooo....they all gotta' act like they know exactly what's going to happen, and if they didn't pick it? Then it's stoopid (in their eyes). That's how the NFL draft game is played with the talking heads.
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Old 12-04-2008   #12
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Default Re: Second Guess: Mayock

Quote:
Originally Posted by mexican_texan View Post
Backups in Alex Gibbs' system did very well, sometimes better than the starter. Is Ahman Green the TJ Duckett to Slaton's Warrick Dunn?
Good question.

In 1995 Terrell Davis had a YPC of 4.7 (1117 yards), backups Craver and Milburn averaged 5.0 YPC (599 yards combined).

In 1996 Terrell Davis had a YPC of 4.5 (1538 yards), backups Craver and Hebron averaged 4.6 YPC (494 yards combined).

In 1997 Terrell Davis had a YPC of 4.7 (1750 yards), backups Hebron and Loville averaged 4.8 YPC (346 yards combined).

In 1998 Terrell Davis had a YPC of 5.1 (2008 yards), backups Loville and Brister averaged 4.2 YPC (263 yards combined).

In 1999 Terrell Davis was hurt, so Orlandis Gary had a YPC of 4.2 (1159 yards), backups Loville averaged 5.1 YPC (203 total yards)

In 2000 Mike Anderson had a 5.0 YPC (1487 yards), with backups Davis and Coleman averaged 3.5 YPC (465 yards combined).

In 2001 Mike Anderson and Terrell Davis had a combined 4.0 YPC (1379 yards combined)

In 2002 Clinton Portis had a YPC of 5.5 (1508 yards) with backups Anderson and Gary averaged 4.3 YPC (533 combined yards)

In 2003 (Gibbs last season) Clinton Portis had a YPC of 5.5 (1591 yards) with backups Griffin and Anderson averaged 3.7 YPC (602 yards combined).


The system works. Plug and play.
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Old 12-04-2008   #13
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Default Re: Second Guess: Mayock

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Originally Posted by BigBull17 View Post
Great post. Slaton is a perfect fit for his system, but the system makes guys look great. One more solid ZBS RB and we have a stable.
So should we strip Joe Montana and Steve Young of there HOF jackets cus the WC system made them look good?
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Old 12-04-2008   #14
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Default Re: Second Guess: Mayock

Also, Gibbs drafts the ol and rb. Not only that, he coaches both in concert with each other.
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Old 12-04-2008   #15
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Default Re: Second Guess: Mayock

In some cases backups do have better yards per carry/catch averages than the starters. It doesn't mean they are better though. It's all about WHEN a player is used and what situation they're in. For example, 3rd down backs. It's easier to run against a nickle or dime package than it is with 7 or 8 players in the box.
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Old 12-04-2008   #16
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Default Re: Second Guess: Mayock

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Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
So should we strip Joe Montana and Steve Young of there HOF jackets cus the WC system made them look good?
No, they did what they did... and did it very well! When you have a certain system in place and you find the right people to fit that system, they are usually pretty good. These two just happened to be great.

I don't want to take anything away from Montana or Young at all, but do you think they would have been more successful or less successful in a different system?
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Old 12-04-2008   #17
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Default Re: Second Guess: Mayock

I'm surprised if this is not moved to the draft forum but what the heck its what we do. Mike Mayock is just like anyone of us who absorb College Football & translate it to the NFL via the Draft, Combine & all sources of speculation leading up to & after the facts are known.

hard to imagine knowing what we know now that anybody would take Steve Slaton over Chris Johnson, Tennessee or Matt Forte, Chicago. McFadden, Stewart & Mendenhall have all battled injurys. Ray Rice has looked explosive @ times while Kevin Smith only needs to get stronger. the player who has really dissapointed me is Jammal Charles, similar type of RB, so I thought, who has yet to produce of course it could just be the system & players around him in KC.....

anyway good pub & much deserved
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Old 12-04-2008   #18
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Default Re: Second Guess: Mayock

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
I'm surprised if this is not moved to the draft forum but what the heck its what we do. Mike Mayock is just like anyone of us who absorb College Football & translate it to the NFL via the Draft, Combine & all sources of speculation leading up to & after the facts are known.

hard to imagine knowing what we know now that anybody would take Steve Slaton over Chris Johnson, Tennessee or Matt Forte, Chicago. McFadden, Stewart & Mendenhall have all battled injurys. Ray Rice has looked explosive @ times while Kevin Smith only needs to get stronger. the player who has really dissapointed me is Jammal Charles, similar type of RB, so I thought, who has yet to produce of course it could just be the system & players around him in KC.....

anyway good pub & much deserved
Yeah, but it's the fervor and flare that the talking heads use that bothers me.

If you have a national audience, you might not bang on certain draft picks too hard, too early, because of a deal like Steve Slaton. If the draft gurus would just tone down the attitude and the volume a little bit, maybe temper it with some positive aspects of taking a guy like Slaton in the 3rd rather than trying to wait for him in the 4th...then that's cool with me.

I mean, look at us. On this board. The talking heads should be more like us: Cool, calm, collected...slow to anger, quick to praise, etc.
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Old 12-04-2008   #19
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Default Re: Second Guess: Mayock

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Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
So should we strip Joe Montana and Steve Young of there HOF jackets cus the WC system made them look good?
What? Its not an insult. The system makes guys look good. The smaller, speedy, agile Slaton makes the system look good. Dayne wouldnt look good in a Gibbs ZBS. Its a correlation. Both parts are needed to make the whole look great.
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Old 12-04-2008   #20
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Default Re: Second Guess: Mayock

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Gibbs has earned his paycheck pretty quickly. I do wonder about the lack of a short yardage attack, though, and I hope that this area will be improved as Gibbs gets more time to change the running game more.

None of the other Kubiak-drafted RBs did anything. But then again, Gibbs wasn't here yet. But then again again, Slaton might have done OK without Gibbs. ? I think Gibbs and Slaton are just a solid fit when you get right down to it. Slaton seems to be doing what's required of a ZBS running back: Get upfield (fast) and look for the seam and hit it without hesitating.

There should be a proper ratio for media analysts: They rant and rave for months before the draft about who is going to do well and who is overrated. They rant and rave during the combine, during the draft, and during camps. And then they make a quick mention of their goof ups on one night's program and that's atonement? How about Mayock repeatedly admitting his mistakes on every show he does until it equals how many times he originally ranted and ragged on a draft selection? 50% ratio would be OK, to me.

And we wonder why they are so loosey goosey with their opinions all the time. It's because they have virtually nobody to remind them of their wrong predictions. LOL. But nooooo....they all gotta' act like they know exactly what's going to happen, and if they didn't pick it? Then it's stoopid (in their eyes). That's how the NFL draft game is played with the talking heads.
Maybe I'm just going senile, but what other RBs did Kubiak draft? Walker was a UDFA, and i cant remember for the life of me any other drafted RBs
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