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Old 01-03-2005   #21
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Originally Posted by DR#1
i don't believe we should sign him back, he hasn't really shown me much, but INJURIES, if you define his career here in houston you can't say by his pass rush or by his sacks but by what injuries and how long he's been out, IMO he's not worth more then 3 million a year
In the 3-4 it is the lineman's job to tie up the offensive line and allow the linebackers to make the play's. Linemen in the 3-4 are not going to have big stats.
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Old 01-04-2005   #22
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Tough break for Seth. Good guy and a very good player. However, given last years injury and now more surgury to repair a hamstring, that is going to cost him BIG time. I suspect we will make him an offer, but it will be at a rate we could afford for a backup level player (1 mill.??). IMO, we just can't commit large dollars at this point on him. I think we bought a "pig in a poke" with Walker and we need to avoid doing it again. The problem is, is there a player in the draft that we could select and have a reasonable expectation they would be successfull next year. Probably not, but it is easier for d-line talent, and that means we need to look at FA. IMO, we will need to be MUCH more active in FA that Charley indicated with his "A few cheap guys" comment. If we don't, we can't improve the o-line or d-line now with Seths problem, fast enough to meet next years schedule. We still will need to draft the talent to be ready in 1-2 years to start. Frankly, I think we are in a bit of a hard spot to get it all done and to still be solid and competative next year.
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Old 01-04-2005   #23
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I think Roderique Wright, Marcus Spears, Hlatoi Ngata(sp?), Derrick Johnson, and Ahmad Brooks.. are 4 players that we could be looking at in the first round, who you could reasonably expect to come in and make a difference their first year.
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Old 01-04-2005   #24
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Default Its time to let Payne go.

Payne as good as he has done, is not worth resigning. Unless he takes a 1 year deal at the minimum or very close to it, with him having a second injury to his left leg, and having surgery, him being 30 years old, and the fact that he might be a little undersized to play the NT in the 3-4 all contribute to the fact that he continues to get injured.

I'd like to see us take Haloti Ngata from Oregon. 6'5 338lbs 4.85 40... 485 bench... 585 squat...

The perfect nose tackle, would consume double team even if he were thrown to the ground.

Right now is projected as a second round pick, but i think he will steadily creep his way up in the draft, especially after his interviews and work outs. Is reportedly a very intelligent man. If we have to take him in the first round cause he climbs that high on the boards, then so be it. If he have to trade down to the later first round for him, thats fine.
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Old 01-04-2005   #25
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I tend to agree that we need to be carefull about signing Seth. At this point I would only consider him in a backup role at low dollars, probably about a Mill. I doubt he would take it though, but who knows, no one else may offer better.
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Old 01-04-2005   #26
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I feel bad for Payne, his first year here he was all we could have asked for and then some; but it's probally time to consider cutting him lose. It's always sad when a players career is shortened due to injuries.

Sign him only for low dollars with incentives.
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Old 01-04-2005   #27
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already said this in a number of posts.. but if Ngata's knee checks out fine.. I think he is the best 3-4 DT in the draft. if we can get him, he would be a great pickup.
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Old 01-04-2005   #28
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I agree with all of you guys. IMO we should concentrate on the O line and D line in the draft and free agency. Our D line is getting old except for Smith and our O line needs help bad.
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Old 01-04-2005   #29
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I would love to see Payne back if we could sign him for about 3.0 million a year. A 3 year $8.75 million contract with playing incentives would be good in my book. Thing is you have to look at a couple of NT that are avail in free agency. Pat Williams of the Bills and Chris Hovan of the Vikings. Pat Williams would be an excellen FA acquisitiion for us and we could redsign Payne at a reduced rate and hand him is walking papers. We could then draft a decent NT to groom. Chris Hovan I know has lost his luster in Minneasota but somehow I feel he would make an excellent NT. The guy just has a high motor. Fangio and company could work on his technique and we could still draft a decent NT if he doesn't pan out. Deloach could still be factor in all this, depends on what he is asking.
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Old 01-04-2005   #30
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Hovan is overrated and would be a terrible NT.
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Old 01-04-2005   #31
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Overated maybe, but he may have lost his focus. Maybe a new place will give him that. You also have to look at how much he is worth and what he is asking. A lot of people on these boards said Grady Jackson, Sam Adams, and Ted Washington were not worth it to us, but they are still put it to poeple.
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Old 01-04-2005   #32
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I think we could have him for 1 more year, as I really don't know if we could get someone better than him. Rookie NT in our 3-4 D doesn't sound really good...
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Old 01-04-2005   #33
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I dont see Payne coming back. I think the cards just fell wrong for him. Last game as a signed player, and he tears something. Talk about tough luck.

Look for a FA NT, or a hight draft pick NT. Payne might be back if he takes a huge cut, and we can be sure he will be able to play ball next year.

Last edited by Blake; 01-04-2005 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 01-04-2005   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phan1
Rookie NT in our 3-4 D doesn't sound really good...
It's not as bad as you would think. Casy Hampton stood behind for a bit but eventually learned the system and played his way into the starting spot for the Steelers. Same thing should be done here if we draft a rookie NT

Last edited by SESupergenius; 01-04-2005 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 01-04-2005   #35
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Hovan will probably end up with Dennis Green in AZ. He's more of a one-gap guy anyway.
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Old 01-04-2005   #36
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So was Seth Payne before he was moved to NT. Hovan is more of a 2-gap guy in that he likes to bull people over with his strength ranther than using his hands to finesse his way around guys.

Last edited by SESupergenius; 01-04-2005 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 01-04-2005   #37
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yes we need to draft a NT, and i know some dont agree with that, but look at D.Rob and Babin this year, some rooks pick up things faster than others, so we need to get a young guy, that will help us for years !
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Old 01-04-2005   #38
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Default speed on the outside

I honestly don't see finding an upgrade over Payne as a prority I think if we get some speed on the outside that will help everything. How about USC Coady with the #1 pick or trading down to pick him up later
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Old 01-04-2005   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
already said this in a number of posts.. but if Ngata's knee checks out fine.. I think he is the best 3-4 DT in the draft. if we can get him, he would be a great pickup.
The knee shouldn't be an issue. No problems this past saeson and he's quoted as saying the repaired knee is stronger than the other.

Being doubled and tripled teamed all season, he ended up with 46 tackles, 8.5 tackles-for-loss, 3.5 sacks, 2 forced fumbles & 2 blocked kicks.

If he comes out, I don't see him slipping to the second round.
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Old 01-04-2005   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SESupergenius
Chris Hovan I know has lost his luster in Minneasota but somehow I feel he would make an excellent NT. The guy just has a high motor.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a major knock on Hovan that he can be high motor on pass rushing but doesn't have discipline for run stopping? Doesn't sound like a NT in that regard.
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