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Old 02-10-2005   #41
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maybe the wonger is steve mckinney

"We are actually one of the best lines in the NFL"
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Old 02-10-2005   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pek281
I think Chawky summed it up perfectly. The O-line needs major help in the off-season.
And in our next draft, forget this noise of "picking the best available athlete". We need good, young athletes for the offensive line.
In the 1984 NBA college draft, Houston selected Akeem Olajuwon with its first pick - can't go wrong with that pick. The second pick belonged to the Portland Trail Blazers, and they picked according to their needs. Their main need was at center and accordingly, they drafted 7'1" center Sam
Bowie out of Kentucky, instead of selecting a skinny, but truly gifted shooting guard from the U of North Carolina who was drafted with the next pick by Chicago. He was clearly considered the best player available when Portland picked, but they needed a center. Bowie ended up having a lengthy, but less than sensational NBA career. The player the Bulls drafted went on to be the greatest of all time: he was of course Michael Jordan.
Even though its the NBA and not NFL, its still instructive to recall this well known piece of NBA history when considering drafting on the basis of "need" vs. "Best Player Available".
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Old 02-10-2005   #43
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Elway:

Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld Rate
1983 Denver Broncos 11 0 259 123 47.5 1663 6.42 0 7 14 0/0 54.9
1984 Denver Broncos 15 0 380 214 56.3 2598 6.84 0 18 15 0/0 76.8
1985 Denver Broncos 16 0 605 327 54.0 3891 6.43 0 22 23 0/0 70.2


Carr:

Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld Rate
2002 Houston Texans 16 16 444 233 52.5 2592 5.84 81 9 15 76/411 62.8
2003 Houston Texans 12 11 295 167 56.6 2013 6.82 78 9 13 15/90 69.5
2004 Houston Texans 16 16 466 285 61.2 3531 7.58 69 16 14 49/301 83.5


Aikman:

Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Rate
1989 Dallas Cowboys 11 11 293 155 52.9 1749 6.0 75 9 18 55.7
1990 Dallas Cowboys 15 15 399 226 56.6 2579 6.5 61 11 18 66.6
1991 Dallas Cowboys 12 12 363 237 65.3 2754 7.6 61 11 10 86.7



It's a bit early to give up on the guy don't ya think?
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Old 02-10-2005   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
In the 1984 NBA college draft, Houston selected Akeem Olajuwon with its first pick - can't go wrong with that pick. The second pick belonged to the Portland Trail Blazers, and they picked according to their needs. Their main need was at center and accordingly, they drafted 7'1" center Sam
Bowie out of Kentucky, instead of selecting a skinny, but truly gifted shooting guard from the U of North Carolina who was drafted with the next pick by Chicago. He was clearly considered the best player available when Portland picked, but they needed a center. Bowie ended up having a lengthy, but less than sensational NBA career. The player the Bulls drafted went on to be the greatest of all time: he was of course Michael Jordan.
Even though its the NBA and not NFL, its still instructive to recall this well known piece of NBA history when considering drafting on the basis of "need" vs. "Best Player Available".
good stuff there nunusguy.
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Old 02-10-2005   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
In the 1984 NBA college draft, Houston selected Akeem Olajuwon with its first pick - can't go wrong with that pick. The second pick belonged to the Portland Trail Blazers, and they picked according to their needs. Their main need was at center and accordingly, they drafted 7'1" center Sam
Bowie out of Kentucky, instead of selecting a skinny, but truly gifted shooting guard from the U of North Carolina who was drafted with the next pick by Chicago. He was clearly considered the best player available when Portland picked, but they needed a center. Bowie ended up having a lengthy, but less than sensational NBA career. The player the Bulls drafted went on to be the greatest of all time: he was of course Michael Jordan.
Even though its the NBA and not NFL, its still instructive to recall this well known piece of NBA history when considering drafting on the basis of "need" vs. "Best Player Available".
One of these day the average fan will realize the draft is more about talent acquisition than we need _____ so the best blank is____ so he is the right draft choice no matter what.

Good stuff Nuns
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Old 02-10-2005   #46
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Default he's better than average

he may still be a little immature but he has a great arm and can thread the needle. i still say he is good in the clutch.
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Old 02-10-2005   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan
One of these day the average fan will realize the draft is more about talent acquisition than we need _____ so the best blank is____ so he is the right draft choice no matter what.

Good stuff Nuns
Wow, never realized you were such an optimist. Good post Nunus.
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Old 02-11-2005   #48
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I'm very happy w/David Carr. Is he perfect, No, but he's pretty talented/tough and with a bit more talent on offense he may just be special. Patience is a virture, especially w/QBs.
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Old 02-11-2005   #49
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He's nothing more than a back up.
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Old 02-11-2005   #50
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If's and but's, candy and nuts.

I hope that he someday becomes better than average or even great, but set your myopic lenses and excuses aside and look at the stats and his performances on the field this year. HE WAS AVERAGE! That's all I'm saying. If someone can provide some factual evidence to show otherwise please do so.
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Old 02-11-2005   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the wonger need food
If someone can provide some factual evidence to show otherwise please do so.
Well gee, not that you couldn't find this yourself, but it would hurt your position:

Completion %--12th among QB's who started 10 or more games (and higher than John Elway had in 13 of 16 seasons)
Total yards--12th
Yards per attempt--11th
Rushing yards--3rd
QB Rating--16th (and ahead of other recently drafted QB's Leftwich, Palmer, Vick, Harrington, Ramsey)

For an even better picture let's look at his performance before his pass protection went from OK to miserable, i.e. the mid point of the season.

Games 1-8: QB rating 95.1, Comp. % 64.1, ypg 270.3, ypa 8.6
This would have been 8th, 9th, 5th and 3rd in the league if continued through the season.

IMO he has steadily progressed each year despite getting more turf time than any other QB in his 3 years in the league (not an excuse, a statement of fact--you tell me what is more realistic, considering the context of his performance or being blindly dismissive of what is happening). Seems like with top half to top third #'s and not being so myopic as to ignore the performance of the players around him it is hard to conclude he will never be anything but average.
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Old 02-11-2005   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
Games 1-8: QB rating 95.1, Comp. % 64.1, ypg 270.3, ypa 8.6
This would have been 8th, 9th, 5th and 3rd in the league if continued through the season.
Here was our schedule and the pass defense ranking of the team we played:
San Diego 30
Detroit 21
KC 32
Oakland 28
Minnesota 29
Tennessee 26
Jacksonville 16
Denver 6
-------------
Indianapolis 31
Green Bay 25
Tennessee 26
NY Jets 14
Indianapolis 31
Chicago 13
Jacksonville 16
Cleveland 5

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statis...on=2&year=2004

You will notice how many horrible pass defense swe played against the first 6 weeks of the season. We only played 2 teams in the top 20 in pass defense the entire first half of the season. I think this had an impact on inflating Carr's stats early in the season.

The second half of the season, Carr struggled to pass the ball as well. Although the Colts and Packers had bad pass defenses, they were able to cover that up with their pass rush. I'd like to think he could dismantle these two teams if he had a more reliable line. We may never know at this rate.
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Old 02-11-2005   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOgre
You will notice how many horrible pass defense swe played against the first 6 weeks of the season. We only played 2 teams in the top 20 in pass defense the entire first half of the season. I think this had an impact on inflating Carr's stats early in the season.

The second half of the season, Carr struggled to pass the ball as well. Although the Colts and Packers had bad pass defenses, they were able to cover that up with their pass rush. I'd like to think he could dismantle these two teams if he had a more reliable line. We may never know at this rate.
That almost certainly accounts for some of the split although not all IMO. The average ranking of the 1st 8 teams is 23.5, for the last 8 20.5--a split, but we aren't talking about anything of the magnitude of split in Carr's performance from top 10 to bottom 10. My inexplicable observation for the year was the OL couldn't play a complete game. During games 1-8 the pass protection was decent but the run blocking below average. During the 2nd half of the season the run blocking was decent but the pass blocking below average.
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Old 02-11-2005   #54
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exactly Infantrycak. I wonder if it was a coincidence that after the 8th game, Carr's stats declined and he started to hit the turf. 9th game was against Indy and Freeny caused havoc .. yet I don't recall him getting a sack, but he disrupted the plays.... that is the direct damage he did... what also happened was that teams were getting a good game plan on our OL and how to disrupt anything we did.. As far as Carr goes.. I see a QB that can make all the throws necessary.. but doesn't have the confidence in his OL to step up in the pocket like a QB should be able to do.
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Old 02-12-2005   #55
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Default N'uff said

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky

What does this tell me? That if Carr is allowed just average protection, he is one of the better QBs in the league & the Texans can have a winning record. But if Carr is allowed to be sacked at a league high rate, he's not good & the Texans will lose.

Now maybe, just maybe, you could convince a veteran QB to come play behind this O-line. Maybe not. But I'll tell you, there aren't many QBs that are successful while being sacked 3.5 times a game. I would prefer the Texans use their time & resources to improve and develop the offensive line rather than signing and working a new QB into the system. That's just the way I see it.
I sat there at the end green bay game depressed. Not because we lost a winnable game. But because I knew this Carr suxs **** was coming from the stone chunkers and I'd have to read it all winter. TY, TY for the great post. Carr was Mauled in the Cleevland game also. Too painful to watch. The o-line should have oppologized for their prefomance. The fact that Carr is taking this beating and not complianing about it tells me he is a pro's pro. He is never going to be Manning. But what he is is a winner. Dump him if you want. But for my money he is the perfect QB to run this offense. JMHO.
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Old 02-12-2005   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk75
that was all very well said! if Carr got to throw the ball 40 times or so a game he and the O could be up there like the Colts.
I think most agree that DC will be fine now because it is hard to argue with his play after last year. I do hope we never become that kind of team though (puts way too much pressure on the D with a few incompletions...passing offenses in the NFL do not manage the clock well). I got sick of the pass happy Run and Shoot Oilers getting beat in the Playoffs each year (like the Colts).... Palmer uses run and shoot type progressions here in the passing game (ugh) and that is as close to that high school scheme as I want to get.
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Old 02-12-2005   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the wonger need food
For everyone out there who thinks that David Carr makes no mistakes and the offensive line is blame for all of the Texans woes, check yourself. At least go back and look at the games. He has stunk it up the second half of this season. Stats don't necessarily win games, but his have fallen drastically. I don't know what happened but he lost all sense of a pocket presence.

He has proven to be a very average QB. Has he shown anyone that he has the mentality to be great some day? Yes he gets hit a lot and still plays, big deal, a lot of QB's do that. The organization should seriously consider bringing someone in to challenge him for his job. I remember when they drafted Henson someone from the team had to make a call to him to explain. Forget that, he should have to perform to keep his job just like the rest of us.


I'm sorry did you say something?
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Old 02-12-2005   #58
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Carr is the man for Houston. He's an above average QB and being made better every year by his unique welcome to the NFL. I don't think there's a QB right now that can stare down a blitz better then Carr. Sure Brady can stand in the pocket until it almost breaks, but I've seen Carr stare down blitzers as he completes passes over their heads. When the game isn't entierly riding on him, he's almost impossible to phase. He'll watch as the entire D-line is coming at him and he'll stand his ground and make the throw. He's been hit so many times he isn't scared any more. He's not gonna pull the ball down. He'll make the throw.
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Old 02-13-2005   #59
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Default Huh?

"He's not gonna pull the ball down. He'll make the throw."

...guess thats why he gets so many rushing yards and who was that QB
for the Texans who ran out of bounds instead of throwing a hail mary
against the Browns as time ran out? Banks? Ragone?
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Old 02-13-2005   #60
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Yes, he still has to scramble, which is caused by poor O-line play (which has been extensivly documented here and elsewhere). However, he makes throws in defenders teeth all the time. Lots of other QB's just curl up when they see a defender coming.

Carr's success hindges on how much of the load he feels he's carrying. When he's having fun playing football he is a great QB. when he feels he has to do it all himself, he makes big mistakes.
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