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Old 01-03-2005   #1
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Default David Carr is average

For everyone out there who thinks that David Carr makes no mistakes and the offensive line is blame for all of the Texans woes, check yourself. At least go back and look at the games. He has stunk it up the second half of this season. Stats don't necessarily win games, but his have fallen drastically. I don't know what happened but he lost all sense of a pocket presence.

He has proven to be a very average QB. Has he shown anyone that he has the mentality to be great some day? Yes he gets hit a lot and still plays, big deal, a lot of QB's do that. The organization should seriously consider bringing someone in to challenge him for his job. I remember when they drafted Henson someone from the team had to make a call to him to explain. Forget that, he should have to perform to keep his job just like the rest of us.
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Old 01-03-2005   #2
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Originally Posted by the wonger need food
I don't know what happened but he lost all sense of a pocket presence.
You don't know what happened??

Tell me. Where exactly did you sense any presence of a pocket?
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Old 01-03-2005   #3
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He is average at this point of his career, that doesn't mean he is destined to stay an average QB. I think he has a ton of upside, excellent mobility, live arm, and durable. A bad O-line can make ANY QB look bad. This is even more of an issue for a young QB who you are trying to develop. A lot of young QB's pick up bad habits they can't shake as a sort of shell shock from the beating they take. Quite frankly, I'm sure he is a bit jumpy from getting little or no protection all year. Fix the O-line and see what a diff it will be. Next year, a healthy DD, Wells, and Hollings. Upgrade the TE spot, so he has another target in the passing game, but one who can block as well when needed. The problem was you'd leave a TE in on protection, and often have the RB protect as well, with less guys in the pattern and Carr still on his back. A bit demoralizing no? You could also use a complement to AJ, someone to stretch the field and take some of the D pressure off of AJ. That way that cant rotate coverage to his side and lock down one half of the field. More creative play calling certainly couldn't hurt either. Yes, Carr was average, BUT he is not an average journeyman type of QB. I think he will elevate his game once he has some pieces around him, primarily the O-line.
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Old 01-03-2005   #4
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I think Chawky summed it up perfectly. The O-line needs major help in the off-season.

And in our next draft, forget this noise of "picking the best available athlete". We need good, young athletes for the offensive line.
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Old 01-03-2005   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pek281
And in our next draft, forget this noise of "picking the best available athlete". We need good, young athletes for the offensive line.
AGREED!!!!!!
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Old 01-03-2005   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pek281
I think Chawky summed it up perfectly. The O-line needs major help in the off-season.

And in our next draft, forget this noise of "picking the best available athlete". We need good, young athletes for the offensive line.
That strategy sort of worries me though. Many times when you reach, you end up with a bust. Picking the best available player is generally accepted as the best way to go, whether you are a perennial powerhouse or a bottom feeder. Look at the Patriots, picked low of course from the SB win, but picked up a TON of depth and they are as good as they were last year. In fact, if not for the injuries to like everyone on their D, they'd probably be better than the team that won the SB last year. This is a perfect example of what drafting best available does for you.

I think you guys need to be active in free agency. Sit down, evaluate your own roster and cut loose all the dead weight. Upgrade as many spots as possible through free agency to gain more flexibility in the draft. Going in knowing you need like one lineman is one thing, but going in with a shopping list saying we need an LT, C, RG, DT, DE, etc. is a sure fire way to disaster. I hope you guys have a good front office and take care of as many problems as possible prior to the draft. It's not good to be picking middle of the pack with glaring, gaping holes that must be filled when its your turn to pick and somehow a blue chip WR has fallen to your slot, but then taking a projected 2nd-3rd LT because he is the only LT left on the board who has graded higher than like the 5th round, ya know.
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Old 01-03-2005   #7
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He's average with a horrible offensive line, which means he's well above average to do that well with what he has.

If the Oline were to protect him just 1 or 2 more seconds on a pass play, we'd see him shine.
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Old 01-03-2005   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the wonger need food
For everyone out there who thinks that David Carr makes no mistakes and the offensive line is blame for all of the Texans woes, check yourself. At least go back and look at the games. He has stunk it up the second half of this season. Stats don't necessarily win games, but his have fallen drastically. I don't know what happened but he lost all sense of a pocket presence.

He has proven to be a very average QB. Has he shown anyone that he has the mentality to be great some day? Yes he gets hit a lot and still plays, big deal, a lot of QB's do that. The organization should seriously consider bringing someone in to challenge him for his job. I remember when they drafted Henson someone from the team had to make a call to him to explain. Forget that, he should have to perform to keep his job just like the rest of us.
Dude you just don't get it. I watched the game again and on the first drive that we scored the offensive line protected him and he was able to complete passes to OPEN receivers. For the most part for the rest of the game the pocket was collapsing around him(he didn't really have a pocket and time enough to locate open recievers if they were open I can't really tell you). He shows me when he has time to throw that hes is a very good QB, that my opinion. I will be watching most games again. Carr next year if we have a better line he will show you.

Oh by the way how can he have pocket presence when there is NO pocket?

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Old 01-03-2005   #9
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Average for now. We'll see what happens when he gets more time to throw. Should progress next season. Kinda looks like Eli Manning right now struggling with the O-line. I'd like to see him become more of a leader and get consistent with his reads. Doesn't look comfortable throwing into coverage. If things don't pan out, Vince Young, nuff said.
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Old 01-03-2005   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the wonger need food
...At least go back and look at the games. He has stunk it up the second half of this season...
I took your advice and looked back at the games. Over the 1st seven games, Carr was sacked 16 times. The Texans record was 4-3 & Carr had 4 games with a 100+ passer rating. The 2.3 sacks allowed by the Texans matched the league average. Carr's 9.2 yards/attempt was 2nd only to Daunte Culpepper.

From then on, Carr was sacked 33 times. The Texans record was 3-6 & Carr had zero games with a 100+ passer rating and 2 games with a passer rating below 40. Carr finished the year sacked more than any other QB. Other teams allowed more sacks than the Texans did, but those teams had QBs that couldn't play the entire season. Carr was the "last man standing", and his yards/attempt for the final 9 games dropped to 6.3.

What does this tell me? That if Carr is allowed just average protection, he is one of the better QBs in the league & the Texans can have a winning record. But if Carr is allowed to be sacked at a league high rate, he's not good & the Texans will lose.

Now maybe, just maybe, you could convince a veteran QB to come play behind this O-line. Maybe not. But I'll tell you, there aren't many QBs that are successful while being sacked 3.5 times a game. I would prefer the Texans use their time & resources to improve and develop the offensive line rather than signing and working a new QB into the system. That's just the way I see it.
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Old 01-03-2005   #11
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Thanks for the stats lucky... and well said.
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Old 01-03-2005   #12
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Default Did Banks embarrass Carr?

I think the QB exposed his weakness on Sunday and tried to cover up when he took a big hit late on when he had had enough, Banks came in and made an easy play & the line and the pocket held, and Carr almost trip over himself trying to get back into it,

so the manager has to decide can David really cut it, I think not, the rest of the team is improving but is David? Good arm, strength, etc all count, but where is the quickness of thought, and the game awareness of a brilliant QB?

The thumping of the ground in frustration reflected poorly on him, this is a team game, and he let the team down. With only a handful of competitive games a season (compared to other sports) do the Texans have the luxury of giving him another couple of seasons to come good? I hope the frailties of the QB don't result in whole scale changes to the team.
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Old 01-03-2005   #13
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Well after only a few yrs on the team, Why would he be expected to be another Brett Farve right off the bat?? He's still growing like the rest of the team...Right now Carr needs an o-line to compliment him until he gets to be a stronger QB...I think we all know he has the potential to be explosive...Maybe this coming season he will...I haven't given up on him yet.
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Old 01-03-2005   #14
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What is your point? Carr has shown progress. He is in the middle of the pack with a passer rating of 83.5 Everyone knows he makes mistakes. But its a team effort. There are a ton of teams who would love to have Carr. Just be glad we arent one of them.
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Old 01-03-2005   #15
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Bank came in last year and everyone thought he did well.....until the o-line couldn't protect him and he went down. See a pattern here?
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Old 01-03-2005   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texanbrit
I think the QB exposed his weakness on Sunday and tried to cover up when he took a big hit late on when he had had enough, Banks came in and made an easy play & the line and the pocket held, and Carr almost trip over himself trying to get back into it,

so the manager has to decide can David really cut it, I think not, the rest of the team is improving but is David? Good arm, strength, etc all count, but where is the quickness of thought, and the game awareness of a brilliant QB?

The thumping of the ground in frustration reflected poorly on him, this is a team game, and he let the team down. With only a handful of competitive games a season (compared to other sports) do the Texans have the luxury of giving him another couple of seasons to come good? I hope the frailties of the QB don't result in whole scale changes to the team.

one more time for the record, Banks through a five yard dump off to Davis just as I said he would when he came into the game. DD escaped the tackle and turned into a 17 yard gain.
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Old 01-03-2005   #17
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Post Challenging Carr's Job?

I've read on a lot of posts that we need to get a QB in here that can challenge David for the starting QB position (in not so many words). Are you talking about drafting or looking into the FA market?

If you're talking about drafting, let me ask why? Why would you waste a draft pick? Why wouldn't you draft an O-lineman, D-lineman, or even second WR to AJ?

I wouldn't mind seeing Carr being challenged for his job, just not at the expense of a draft pick.
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Old 01-03-2005   #18
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This challenging Carr for his job thing is ridiculous. How about we challenge each of our O linemen for their jobs? I think that might work.
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Old 01-03-2005   #19
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This challenging Carr for his job thing is ridiculous. How about we challenge each of our O linemen for their jobs? I think that might work.
Whole-Heartedly Agree!!! Get some drills going in the offseason, obstacle courses, anything.
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Old 01-03-2005   #20
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Why would you not want to challenge him for his job? Competition makes players better.

I know that it's politically incorrect to hold Carr accountable for anything, but I can't help myself.
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