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Old 11-20-2008   #21
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Default Re: We need a new QB in 09!

Improve the defense and the offense will improve because it will have something competent to practice against
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Old 11-20-2008   #22
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Default Re: We need a new QB in 09!

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
I think the bigger issue for Schaub is staying on the field .... again leading back to his taking some hard hits from lack of knowing when ..... to get out of the pocket or get rid of the ball. (outside of maybe the JA hit). Is it the OL or is it on Schaub ?
Lack of knowing? Let's examine this. Four injuries.

Concussion--late hit by Haynesworth, flagged play, ball already gone.

Concussion--cheap shot by San Diego player, flagged play, ball long gone and already intercepted.

Shoulder--clean sack and folks could argue about this but there basically was a jail break by the DL so IMO it wasn't a holding the ball issue.

Knee--two cheap shots, fined plays, in both cases ball already gone.

I don't see where pre-throw lack of knowledge and his injuries correlate.
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Old 11-20-2008   #23
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Default Re: We need a new QB in 09!

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Originally Posted by ATX View Post
Not to say our defense isn't crappy, but when we have a QB/team that turns the ball over as much as we do, alot of those points come from the other team getting the ball in great field position and/or returning it.
wow, that's an excelent point. I never thought about that end of it. Our D might actually not be as bad as we all are thinking. Anyones D would look bad if they started in as bad of field position as often as our D does due to Offensive turnovers.

Great point sir.

But still, much work needs to be done on both sides of the ball and for sure the D-Line needs to put more pressure on QBs than they have been. That would help a ton!
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Old 11-20-2008   #24
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Default Re: We need a new QB in 09!

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Lack of knowing? Let's examine this. Four injuries.

Concussion--late hit by Haynesworth, flagged play, ball already gone.

Concussion--cheap shot by San Diego player, flagged play, ball long gone and already intercepted.

Shoulder--clean sack and folks could argue about this but there basically was a jail break by the DL so IMO it wasn't a holding the ball issue.

Knee--two cheap shots, fined plays, in both cases ball already gone.

I don't see where pre-throw lack of knowledge and his injuries correlate.

Sounds like a mash unit...too bad its just for one guy.
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Old 11-20-2008   #25
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Default Re: We need a new QB in 09!

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Originally Posted by cowbellm00 View Post
wow, that's an excelent point. I never thought about that end of it. Our D might actually not be as bad as we all are thinking. Anyones D would look bad if they started in as bad of field position as often as our D does due to Offensive turnovers.

Great point sir.

But still, much work needs to be done on both sides of the ball and for sure the D-Line needs to put more pressure on QBs than they have been. That would help a ton!
I would agree, but we turn the ball over the most in the red zone. They have 80 yards to go, and normally do just that.
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Old 11-20-2008   #26
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Default Re: We need a new QB in 09!

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I fail to see the logic here.

QB is not the issue on our team and while some of you guys on here are harping on the 2 oline positions, there is little doubt that the real issue is defense. Even when our QB play hasnt produced alot of turnovers in games Minus the Cinci game, our Defense has still given up 30 ppg. Wholesale changes on Defense need to be made

We already have a QB for 09, we dont need to go looking for another one.

So lets change the thread title to the obvious issue: We need a Defense in 09!
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Not to say our defense isn't crappy, but when we have a QB/team that turns the ball over as much as we do, alot of those points come from the other team getting the ball in great field position and/or returning it.
Then explain to me how we still lose games when we score 28 and dont turn the ball over. Thats happened a couple of times this year and that last game we played, the Sage INT had very little to do with that loss. Had we not given up 500 yds from the Defense e would have won the game. So I still dont buy the new QB in 09 argument.

How about we fix the biggest problem first, which is our "Red Sea Defense"
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Old 11-20-2008   #27
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Default Re: We need a new QB in 09!

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Originally Posted by ATX View Post
Not to say our defense isn't crappy, but when we have a QB/team that turns the ball over as much as we do, alot of those points come from the other team getting the ball in great field position and/or returning it.
I disagree, I think the defense is just as much to blame for the turnovers. Our offense is always playing from behind and knows that our defense can't hold anybody down so they are forced to play too aggressively. We need a defense that can stop people so we don't have to give up on the running game by halftime. When this happens the turnovers will go down drastically. Look at the Colts, how many turnovers did they need to rack up 470+ yards? All of their drives were long and time consuming. We would have been better off if we had onside kicked literally every time they scored. In conclusion our defense is poo.
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Old 11-20-2008   #28
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Default Re: We need a new QB in 09!

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Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles View Post
I disagree, I think the defense is just as much to blame for the turnovers. Our offense is always playing from behind and knows that our defense can't hold anybody down so they are forced to play too aggressively. We need a defense that can stop people so we don't have to give up on the running game by halftime. When this happens the turnovers will go down drastically. Look at the Colts, how many turnovers did they need to rack up 470+ yards? All of their drives were long and time consuming. We would have been better off if we had onside kicked literally every time they scored. In conclusion our defense is poo.
Not saying our defense isn't crappy......it is. I just wanted to throw that in there because it's relevant. I want a good defense too, but I don't care how good a defense is if your QB throws a bunch of pick sixes.......they aren't on the field. Look at Tennessee for example. Great defense, average offense, but Collins isn't throwing alot of interceptions. 3 major problems I see for the Texans....

1. Terrible Defense
2. Too many giveaways
3. Not enough takeaways

Fix those 3 and this team is a playoff team
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Old 11-20-2008   #29
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Default Re: We need a new QB in 09!

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Originally Posted by ATX View Post
Not saying our defense isn't crappy......it is. I just wanted to throw that in there because it's relevant. I want a good defense too, but I don't care how good a defense is if your QB throws a bunch of pick sixes.......they aren't on the field. Look at Tennessee for example. Great defense, average offense, but Collins isn't throwing alot of interceptions. 3 major problems I see for the Texans....

1. Terrible Defense
2. Too many giveaways
3. Not enough takeaways

Fix those 3 and this team is a playoff team
A new DC and a good defensive draft should be able to help with 1 and 3.

I've got Jeff George on stand-by ready to fix number 2.
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Old 11-20-2008   #30
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Default Re: We need a new QB in 09!

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Originally Posted by ATX View Post
Not saying our defense isn't crappy......it is. I just wanted to throw that in there because it's relevant. I want a good defense too, but I don't care how good a defense is if your QB throws a bunch of pick sixes.......they aren't on the field. Look at Tennessee for example. Great defense, average offense, but Collins isn't throwing alot of interceptions. 3 major problems I see for the Texans....

1. Terrible Defense
2. Too many giveaways
3. Not enough takeaways

Fix those 3 and this team is a playoff team
I agree wholeheartedly with those three things that we must do to improve. My point is the defense can possibly kill all three of them whereas a new QB could only hope to take away 1 and frankly I'm not sure there are many QBs in the league who could succeed with our defense and the amount of aggressive throws we have to make to stay in the game.

The fact is that we are going to have limited resources to attack our problems this offseason. The draft and FA, and we have shown to be terrible in FA. In an ideal world sure, lets grab a potential upgrade at QB and LT/OG/C etc. and then focus on the defense. Can't happen though, we only have so many impact draft picks. We won't even be able to fix the defense completely this offseason imo but we can certainly make an impact with new coaching and talent. In the end QB, while attractive, should not be a priority over defense and I don't think its even close.
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Old 11-20-2008   #31
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Default Re: We need a new QB in 09!

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Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles View Post
I agree wholeheartedly with those three things that we must do to improve. My point is the defense can possibly kill all three of them whereas a new QB could only hope to take away 1 and frankly I'm not sure there are many QBs in the league who could succeed with our defense and the amount of aggressive throws we have to make to stay in the game.

The fact is that we are going to have limited resources to attack our problems this offseason. The draft and FA, and we have shown to be terrible in FA. In an ideal world sure, lets grab a potential upgrade at QB and LT/OG/C etc. and then focus on the defense. Can't happen though, we only have so many impact draft picks. We won't even be able to fix the defense completely this offseason imo but we can certainly make an impact with new coaching and talent. In the end QB, while attractive, should not be a priority over defense and I don't think its even close.
I agree that beefing up the defense is a priority over getting another QB.
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Old 11-20-2008   #32
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Default Re: We need a new QB in 09!

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
The problems this team has on offense are QB related .... especially in the redzone. Schaub just doesnt have any feel for when its time to get .... as in out or rid of the ball .... Rosencptor takes too many chances that lead to turnovers and makes some poor reads which lead to more turnovers.


They do fine between the 20's but when they get in the RZ , when the heat goes up .... we all know what happens.


For Schaub , replacing the C and RG MIGHT help some by extending the time he has to stand in the pocket ... but it wont solve all the problems.


Sage needs to go to the Wizard of Oz and get himself a brain ..... his problems arent fixable otherwise.

I think the bigger issue for Schaub is staying on the field .... again leading back to his taking some hard hits from lack of knowing when ..... to get out of the pocket or get rid of the ball. (outside of maybe the JA hit). Is it the OL or is it on Schaub ? Only one way to find out , fix the RG and C spots and throw him out there again next season. But if he goes down again .... do we stick w/ Sage (please no!) , find a vet backup or pick up a QB somewhere in the middle of this draft? I'd like to do both of the latter depending on who's available from the 4th round on. But that (fixing the C and RG) kinda limits some picks that could be spent on the defense .... Ugh it has to be fixed.


I just dont see being able to fix both the OL and Defense in one offseason. Best bet for this team is to pick up a vet backup who has started in the NFL and who fits the system for next season. Fix the Defense during this offseason. Unless someone you have rated extremely high falls in your lap on the offensive side of the ball.
I see our red zone problems being more running back and OL then QB. We have a smallish RB and a small offensive line. Teams know we can't overpower them in the trenches, so they know we're going to throw.

If we could improve our run blocking (C/G) or improve our running back in the red zone, I think we'd really see an improvement in our RZ efficiency
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Old 11-20-2008   #33
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Default Re: We need a new QB in 09!

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Originally Posted by ATX View Post
Not to say our defense isn't crappy, but when we have a QB/team that turns the ball over as much as we do, alot of those points come from the other team getting the ball in great field position and/or returning it.
This has not been the case, actually. I did a post/thread on this a few weeks ago before I lost interest in the issue when our season went inot the toilet the last few weeks.

But for all of our turnover issues, the defense has actually done a good job of limiting the damage. This is the only thing the defense has done right this year.

Of the AFC-high 287 points we've surrendered, only a total of 47 were the result of turnovers that led to TD returns (14) or that set the opponent up on our side of the 50 (33). The other 240 points we've allowed were the result of drives that started on the other teams half of the field.

The two TD returns were against Tennessee (a meaningless score) and, of course, the Rosencopter play. 16 of the other 33 points (2 TDs and a safety) were in the debacle against Baltimore.

But however you count them, we're middle-of-the pack in terms of our turnovers leading to easy scores for the other teams. But we might still have the worst defense in all of football in terms of giving up long, sustained marches (or big plays) by the other offense.

The offenses' turnover issues have cost us chances to score, but, generally speaking, they have not led to easy scores by the opponent. Those shotgun wounds to the defenses' feet have been almost entirely self-inflicted.
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Old 11-20-2008   #34
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Default Re: We need a new QB in 09!

I'm not going to discount the need to make the defense better, but the most important player on the field is the qb. If you can get #5 by giving up a 2nd, u do it. We can talk about the texans top 10 offense, but the qb's are double agents. I've never seen 2 qb's be responsible for all the to's excepts 2 is crazy. Those red zone int's, the fumbles and just mayybe the leadership in the huddle will improve bigtime with Mcnabb. That's why miami and the jets are winning. If the qb plays good football and don't to the ball, tis teaam would be 6-4. Solve the qb and the rest will follow.
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Old 11-20-2008   #35
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Default Re: We need a new QB in 09!

Yes, several defensive positions are a priority over QB play right now when looking at the field.

However, Sage will be gone soon. And a decision on Schaub will have to be made after next year whether or not to continue with this contract which would cost us MILLIONS. Thus, the Texans defnitely need a young stud QB on the roster to replace Sage and at the very least replace Schaub after next year if he does not pan out or stay healthy.... and at this point we really cant say he will. It pains me to even think about drafting a QB high, but if one is there that we love... it definitely makes sense to think about taking him considering the future.
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Old 11-20-2008   #36
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Default Re: We need a new QB in 09!

I'd give Schaub one more year,and if he hasn't cemented himself as the franchise QB, then we can opt out of his contract. Then maybe we draft a QB in 2010, which looks to be a much better QB class anyway.
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Old 11-20-2008   #37
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Default Re: We need a new QB in 09!

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Lack of knowing? Let's examine this. Four injuries.

Concussion--late hit by Haynesworth, flagged play, ball already gone.

Concussion--cheap shot by San Diego player, flagged play, ball long gone and already intercepted.

Shoulder--clean sack and folks could argue about this but there basically was a jail break by the DL so IMO it wasn't a holding the ball issue.

Knee--two cheap shots, fined plays, in both cases ball already gone.

I don't see where pre-throw lack of knowledge and his injuries correlate.

The concussion in the San Diego play is notable because it may have led to the expansion of the fining system. Drayton Florence got fined $15,000 for the hit and GM Rick Smith actually publicly said that they weren't happy about that.

Within a few weeks of that, the league made it clear that if you head hunt QBs you run the risk of being suspended.

Before the season started, the league put out a memo about player safety saying that players can be fined or suspended for dirty hits, even on the first offense.

Some thing that a lot of folks forget that Schaub and Rosenfels really haven't had that many starts between them. The saddest thing about the second hit that Schaub took was that even though the line had caved in almost immediately, Schaub found a way to step through the pressure, make a big completion and then is hit low after the ball is gone.
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Old 11-20-2008   #38
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Default Re: We need a new QB in 09!

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
I see our red zone problems being more running back and OL then QB. We have a smallish RB and a small offensive line. Teams know we can't overpower them in the trenches, so they know we're going to throw.

If we could improve our run blocking (C/G) or improve our running back in the red zone, I think we'd really see an improvement in our RZ efficiency
I think you are onto something there with the OL in the red zone .... I dont think its Slaton as much as I do the line , he runs pretty damn hard. I think a lot of it is this finesse scheme .... When you get in the red zone and everything gets tight , its hard to finesse your way thru heavier , stronger guy's. Meyers and Brisel get blown up on a regular basis ....
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Old 11-20-2008   #39
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Default Re: We need a new QB in 09!

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
I think you are onto something there with the OL in the red zone .... I dont think its Slaton as much as I do the line , he runs pretty damn hard. I think a lot of it is this finesse scheme .... When you get in the red zone and everything gets tight , its hard to finesse your way thru heavier , stronger guy's. Meyers and Brisel get blown up on a regular basis ....
I did this quick post today... I was very surprised to find his YPC so highly-ranked.
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Old 11-20-2008   #40
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Default Re: We need a new QB in 09!

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Originally Posted by DiehardChris View Post
I did this quick post today... I was very surprised to find his YPC so highly-ranked.
He reminds me a whole lot of another back people thought was too small .... only to put up 18,355 yards over 15 seasons.
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