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Old 11-13-2008   #41
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Default Re: McNair maybe tired of losing?

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Kubiak chews their ass. A lot. The players like playing for him because they respect what he does and they think that he doesn't chew them unfairly. He's a likeable guy.

Other than the last game, the penalties have not been an issue for this team. I think due to the nature of the penalities of the last game, that particular crew might have been a little flag happy. For example, holding happens all the time. It's a discretionary call. The call on OD may be considered by some to be pretty ticky tack because it was away from the ball. Anthony Weaver gets two defensive holding calls for things he does every week.

Richard Smith chews ass way more than Kubiak. The problem with him is that the players do not like or respect him. He comes across as a nut. Coaches need to figure out what motivates different players--Marciano is very good at that--he will chew on guys but they love him because he isn't always like that.
Well then I'm not sure what the problem is........I like Kubes and always have but I give him one more year tops if it doesn't change. I think maybe there is a lack of organizational skills where he has a problem balancing helping run the offense and coaching, where he needs to learn time management, etc. It seems like some of the constant mistakes are ones that can be taught or coached.

From what I read of the recent Cowboy's book, the players could hate Jimmy Johnson at times and wanted to kill him but they knew he was taking them somewhere and somewhat feared him too. I think there has to be a healthy mix.

If what you say is true then I'm not sure why the mistakes keep piling up..unless you just are bringing in the wrong players over and over and have no field leadership.
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Old 11-13-2008   #42
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Default Re: McNair maybe tired of losing?

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Happens all the time in the real world. They go under then names of "performance improvement plans" or something else fairly innocent sounding, but essentially they are saying accomplish this or you will be fired in ____ months.( I am going to take it as a good thing that you are unware of these things)

That said, there are obvious difference between a generic corporate job where it is not clear how you influence the bottom line and Richard Smith where it is pretty clear that the defense has not improved. Still not convinced that getting another DC on a losing team for 7 games really sends a message. When they fire smith I want to see a DC who has a clear plan of scheme and an understanding of what type players he needs to accomplish improving the defense, not just someone promoted to see if they can do the job.
Yeah, I sorta' have to do this thing known as "Perform EVERY day the way I am supposed to or I get fired."

I know I still mess up in some areas, but it's not like an entire department is crashing because I can't hold it together, let alone going on 3 years of said bumbling and lack of performance.
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Old 11-13-2008   #43
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Default Re: McNair maybe tired of losing?

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Sounds like McNair has the same misguided principles that so many parents these days have with their kids...................the lack of consequences...............immediate consequences..........so that there is that unquestionable temporal ASSOCIATION with the behavior and its consequences.
I found out from my 8-year-old's teacher that me and my wife are basically the only family that holds a kid responsible for her character (lying, goofing off, etc.). She said all the other families just float around like they are there to drop their kid off and pick the kid up at the end of the day.

Well, I come from a 3rd-generation farm family...and let's just say that me and wife hold our kid to a high standard. She hates it because she sees how all the other kids are getting away with stuff.

I guess being a Texans fan has also helped me to see what happens when people are not held accountable for doing what they should and for not doing what they should not be doing.

I think a roster of players can't be overturned every season, but you can dang sure go through the coaches until you find a coach that clicks with the organization and with the rostetr of players. Isn't this what possibly happened with the Redskins? And the Dolphins? And the Falcons?

You find a coach that knows how to operate with YOUR players and in YOUR organization mindset, and he makes it seem easy to those on the outside.

I'm all for going through a coach-per-year until we find a guy who can get the job done. Seven years of mediocrity around here because someone in the Texans FO thinks a coach needs FOUR years to show he can get it done!

But Kubiak is likeable. Capers was a rah-rah guy, too, whom players enjoyed being around.
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Old 11-13-2008   #44
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Default Re: McNair maybe tired of losing?

The difference is that you aren't directly competing with someone else. Is there another person out there who is purely trying to keep you from doing your job correctly?

Its easy to say "I do my job, why can't Kubiak"

But that doesn't make any sense.

Every coach in the league is being paid to coach a winner. If all the losing coaches were fired every time they lost a game or lost a season, things would be crazy

Its like when a running back gets tackled after a 4 yard gain and everyone says "Why didn't he break that tackle. He's paid to do one thing, and thats to break that tackle!"

All the while forgetting that someone else is being paid specifically to stop him from doing that
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Old 11-13-2008   #45
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Default Re: McNair maybe tired of losing?

They can't even fire Richard Smith.

No way Kubiak gets fired.
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Old 11-13-2008   #46
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Default Re: McNair maybe tired of losing?

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Kubiak chews their ass. A lot. The players like playing for him because they respect what he does and they think that he doesn't chew them unfairly. He's a likeable guy.

Other than the last game, the penalties have not been an issue for this team. I think due to the nature of the penalities of the last game, that particular crew might have been a little flag happy. For example, holding happens all the time. It's a discretionary call. The call on OD may be considered by some to be pretty ticky tack because it was away from the ball. Anthony Weaver gets two defensive holding calls for things he does every week.

Richard Smith chews ass way more than Kubiak. The problem with him is that the players do not like or respect him. He comes across as a nut. Coaches need to figure out what motivates different players--Marciano is very good at that--he will chew on guys but they love him because he isn't always like that.
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Well then I'm not sure what the problem is........I like Kubes and always have but I give him one more year tops if it doesn't change. I think maybe there is a lack of organizational skills where he has a problem balancing helping run the offense and coaching, where he needs to learn time management, etc. It seems like some of the constant mistakes are ones that can be taught or coached.

From what I read of the recent Cowboy's book, the players could hate Jimmy Johnson at times and wanted to kill him but they knew he was taking them somewhere and somewhat feared him too. I think there has to be a healthy mix.

If what you say is true then I'm not sure why the mistakes keep piling up..unless you just are bringing in the wrong players over and over and have no field leadership.
The problem is really easily identified, actually. It's just that very few people on this board want to acknowledge it, because that means it isn't fixable, and people just want a sacrifice.

The players are making mistakes and/or they aren't good enough. 99% of our offensive woes fall on TWO players - Schaub and Sage. It's really that simple. People keep wanting to blame Kubiak, but there is only so much coaches can do. One position is betraying this offense.

So yeah, it's easier to blame the coaches, but they aren't the ones out there playing. Kubiak can get in people's faces, yell, cajole, plead, whatever .... .the players are going to either like playing for him or they won't, but there is nothing Kubiak can do to stop the QB from turning the ball over aside from just taking the ball out of his hands completely. And if he does that, fans will complain that we suck on offense.

Personally, I am happy that the offensive woes can be so clearly identified.
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Old 11-13-2008   #47
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Default Re: McNair maybe tired of losing?

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
The problem is really easily identified, actually. It's just that very few people on this board want to acknowledge it, because that means it isn't fixable, and people just want a sacrifice.

The players are making mistakes and/or they aren't good enough. 99% of our offensive woes fall on TWO players - Schaub and Sage. It's really that simple. People keep wanting to blame Kubiak, but there is only so much coaches can do. One position is betraying this offense.

So yeah, it's easier to blame the coaches, but they aren't the ones out there playing. Kubiak can get in people's faces, yell, cajole, plead, whatever .... .the players are going to either like playing for him or they won't, but there is nothing Kubiak can do to stop the QB from turning the ball over aside from just taking the ball out of his hands completely. And if he does that, fans will complain that we suck on offense.

Personally, I am happy that the offensive woes can be so clearly identified.

Personally, I don't think it is fair if the coaching staff is going all Martz and making QBs like Schaub and Rosenfels be pass happy with no attempt at all to establish a running game. That begs for your QB to get injured and/or make turnovers. It's not like the Texans have a huge wall of an offensive line that they can stand behind forever.

Having a running game is not putting training wheels on the offense. It is just sound strategic football. It keeps down and distance reasonable. Especially when you have a defense you don't want to see on the field at all--running the ball and eating clock can be a good thing.

It's nice to have confidence in your offense but football isn't just a game of offense. It is a game of strategy and force. (Decent QB + Hardly Any Running Game + Not Great Talent on the Line + Bad Defense) x Against Good Defenses = Turnovers and Possible Ass-Kicking.
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Old 11-13-2008   #48
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Default Re: McNair maybe tired of losing?

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Personally, I don't think it is fair if the coaching staff is going all Martz and making QBs like Schaub and Rosenfels be pass happy with no attempt at all to establish a running game. That begs for your QB to get injured and/or make turnovers. It's not like the Texans have a huge wall of an offensive line that they can stand behind forever.

Having a running game is not putting training wheels on the offense. It is just sound strategic football. It keeps down and distance reasonable. Especially when you have a defense you don't want to see on the field at all--running the ball and eating clock can be a good thing.

It's nice to have confidence in your offense but football isn't just a game of offense. It is a game of strategy and force. (Decent QB + Hardly Any Running Game + Not Great Talent on the Line + Bad Defense) x Against Good Defenses = Turnovers and Possible Ass-Kicking.
Oh, I agree. We just don't have a running game. Slaton has done well, but he's the kind of back that will get stuffed several times and then bust a long one. So his stats at the end of the day look good, but the sustained running game that is necessary just doesn't happen. Furthermore, when we absolutely have to run the ball, we just can't.
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Old 11-13-2008   #49
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Default Re: McNair maybe tired of losing?

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
The problem is really easily identified, actually. It's just that very few people on this board want to acknowledge it, because that means it isn't fixable, and people just want a sacrifice.

The players are making mistakes and/or they aren't good enough. 99% of our offensive woes fall on TWO players - Schaub and Sage. It's really that simple. People keep wanting to blame Kubiak, but there is only so much coaches can do. One position is betraying this offense.

So yeah, it's easier to blame the coaches, but they aren't the ones out there playing. Kubiak can get in people's faces, yell, cajole, plead, whatever .... .the players are going to either like playing for him or they won't, but there is nothing Kubiak can do to stop the QB from turning the ball over aside from just taking the ball out of his hands completely. And if he does that, fans will complain that we suck on offense.

Personally, I am happy that the offensive woes can be so clearly identified.
I think that is a little simplistic and you are taking ALL responsibility out of a coaches hands. Give me a break. There is a reason some well coached teams are last in turnovers every year. They teach them to make the right reads, to check down, to throw balls away, etc. Schaub and Sage probably aren't the answer but I see one guy as coachable and one guy as a guy who has done the same for 8 years. Guys like Eli Manning have improved...they were coached up and the talent around them improved. By your theory all teams must have one of the best QBs. That isn't necessarily true these days, though it is a great advantage. Kubes can HELP stop the turnovers by coaching them right or getting rid of them. The second part won't ever happen because that isn't the NICE way. I am not blaming Kubes for everything but at some point you have to think..2 years of bad challenges, non challenges, clock management, etc is a trend, not an anomoly. I find the examples of Atlanta and other teams to be telling. In a topsy turvy NFL teams go from zero to hero or reversed yearly. Yet the Texans continuously are in the "no show" group that is waiting until next year. At some point next year has to get here or things need to change. I think one more year tells the story.

I also agree with TC. You need to establish the run and get back to basics in order to cover other short comings. But again, who does that go to and if people say it is talent, well then why are the Falcons and others finding it and not us?
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Old 11-13-2008   #50
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Default Re: McNair maybe tired of losing?

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Oh, I agree. We just don't have a running game. Slaton has done well, but he's the kind of back that will get stuffed several times and then bust a long one. So his stats at the end of the day look good, but the sustained running game that is necessary just doesn't happen. Furthermore, when we absolutely have to run the ball, we just can't.
Texans had zero runs that were tackled for a loss against the Ravens. They only had 15 RB runs though.

Texans had zero runs that were tackled for a loss against the Vikings. They only had 16 RB runs, all by Slaton.

Their running game has actually improved this year, and compares favorably to first year running games of teams that Alex Gibbs has coached. Just not as many attempts.

Name me all the QBs in the league who can succeed when they are passing way more than they are throwing the ball.
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Old 11-13-2008   #51
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Default Re: McNair maybe tired of losing?

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Texans had zero runs that were tackled for a loss against the Ravens. They only had 15 RB runs though.

Texans had zero runs that were tackled for a loss against the Vikings. They only had 16 RB runs, all by Slaton.

Their running game has actually improved this year, and compares favorably to first year running games of teams that Alex Gibbs has coached. Just not as many attempts.

Name me all the QBs in the league who can succeed when they are passing way more than they are throwing the ball.
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Jay Cutler
Kurt Warner
Drew Brees
Tony Romo

These are the guys I would say can operate with zero running game on a consistent, week by week basis.
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Old 11-13-2008   #52
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Default Re: McNair maybe tired of losing?

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
The problem is really easily identified, actually. It's just that very few people on this board want to acknowledge it, because that means it isn't fixable, and people just want a sacrifice.

The players are making mistakes and/or they aren't good enough. 99% of our offensive woes fall on TWO players - Schaub and Sage. It's really that simple. People keep wanting to blame Kubiak, but there is only so much coaches can do. One position is betraying this offense.
These are Kubiak's hand picked QB's, of course.

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Oh, I agree. We just don't have a running game. Slaton has done well, but he's the kind of back that will get stuffed several times and then bust a long one. So his stats at the end of the day look good, but the sustained running game that is necessary just doesn't happen. Furthermore, when we absolutely have to run the ball, we just can't.
This is the running offense that Kubiak installed and brought in players for.

Even leaving out the lousy defense, why do you think Kubiak is such a top notch coach?
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Old 11-13-2008   #53
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Default Re: McNair maybe tired of losing?

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Texans had zero runs that were tackled for a loss against the Ravens. They only had 15 RB runs though.

Texans had zero runs that were tackled for a loss against the Vikings. They only had 16 RB runs, all by Slaton.

Their running game has actually improved this year, and compares favorably to first year running games of teams that Alex Gibbs has coached. Just not as many attempts.
Well, when I say stuffed, I don't necessarily mean a net loss of yardage. 0, 1 or 2 yards are all pretty well stuffs, in most instances (not all).

At any rate, I looked this up after the Titans game, when everyone was going gaga about how well Slaton did. His runs in that game were (in order): 1, 50, 1, 3, 6t, 25, 0, 11, 7, 3, 0, 4, 2, 2, -2, 3, 1, -1. That's 13 of his 18 carries that went for 3 yards or less. I love the big play potential, but I prefer a consistent running game to complement it. We're just not there yet.

Against the Ravens, Slaton had four carries for 7 yards. I'll just say he didn't have enough carries in that one and leave it at that. Against Minnesota, he had 16 carries for 62 yards. 9 of those carries were for 3 yards or less. That's better. 9 of his 15 runs against the Bengals were for 3 yards or less. 17 carries for 80 yards against the Lions, and 37 of them came in one run. As I said, I love the explosiveness, but we don't have a steady run game to complement him. Furthermore, as I said above, when we absolutely need to run the ball, like to run the clock out against the Colts, or to punch it in for a TD, Slaton's not the guy, and we really have no one else at this point.

So yeah, the running game has improved, because you have to take into account big plays. What I'm referring to is the ability to consistently run the ball. We do well between the 20s in down-distance situations that aren't obvious running situations. We don't run well when it's 3rd and short, or near the goal line, or at the end of a game to preserve a lead.

None of this should be construed as anything against Slaton. I think he's a valuable guy, and he would be the perfect complement to a back like what DD used to be.
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Old 11-13-2008   #54
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Default Re: McNair maybe tired of losing?

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I think that is a little simplistic and you are taking ALL responsibility out of a coaches hands.
No, I'm just saying the offensive issue so painfully obvious that the Kubiak concerns rank pretty far down the list. It's like going out and buying a $200 tennis racket when you can't even volley. Go learn to play tennis first before you worry about that stuff.

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Even leaving out the lousy defense, why do you think Kubiak is such a top notch coach?
See above. I don't think Kubiak is a top notch coach. I have serious questions about his clock management, his acquisition of free agents, and who he's chosen to surround himself with, for starters. Those things are just so far secondary to why we're losing games at the moment that it doesn't make sense to overlook the obvious. Turnover margin is the #1 stat in determining wins and losses, and we just have QBs that turn the ball over. Kubiak bears some responsibility for choosing those guys, sure, but if we fire him, we're still left with those QBs.

I also don't think there is a very long list of coaches that started from scratch being a top notch head coach. It takes time, something that isn't easily given in the salary cap era. The part that most people overlook is the player turnover that usually accompanies a coaching change. How many players did Miami bring in over the offseason? I heard it was close to 30. That's a complete team overhaul. I'm not saying the prior coach was any better than the current one in Miami, but why not give that prior coach 30 new players?

Kubiak has not done such a massive turnover (and maybe he should have), but over the three years he's headed things up, it's been almost a complete turnover. McNair is just less willing to do that through free agency, it seems.

Anyway, there's a lot that plays into it, obviously, but to me, the turnovers so far surpass any other consideration that it's silly to overlook them.
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Old 11-13-2008   #55
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Default Re: McNair maybe tired of losing?

kubes is a nice enough guy & knowledgeable, but his main problem is that he's constantly getting outcoached. when this was going on in his 1st year i'm like "Ok he's new at it + he's working with David Carr..". 3 years in though, we're still seeing the same crap & that's not a good sign.

As i've said in other threads, whether mcnair keeps him 1 more year or goes in another direction wouldn't bother me at all.
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Old 11-13-2008   #56
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Default Re: McNair maybe tired of losing?

I for one want Kubiak to stay, I think he'll be a great coach someday. On the other hand, if he's gonna go, he needs to go after this season. Our youngsters are getting older and if they have to go through another playbook change, the sooner the better for everyone.
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Old 11-13-2008   #57
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Default Re: McNair maybe tired of losing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
I for one want Kubiak to stay, I think he'll be a great coach someday. On the other hand, if he's gonna go, he needs to go after this season. Our youngsters are getting older and if they have to go through another playbook change, the sooner the better for everyone.

I think that this is an important point. Yes, there have been repeated poor decisions and poor choices all along the way. What few potentially half way descent "midlife" players have been on previous Texans rosters have outlived their prime just waiting for a reasonable team build. Some of our previously considered "young" players may not outlive the present regime......whether you wish to blame it on inadequate time or inadequate minds, the result remains unchanged.
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Old 11-13-2008   #58
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Default Re: McNair maybe tired of losing?

quote from article in the first post...
Quote:
McNair is remaining optimistic with seven games remaining in the season. He talks to Kubiak almost daily, and is often around the team, either in practice or in the postgame locker room.
Every year Bob McNair is optimistic with seven games remaining while his team is out of the hunt. Most of us have bought into at least some part of this optimism for 7 years but it's very hard as a fan to be excited about the last 7 weeks of the season when your city hasn't seen a playoff game since 1993 and the team currently has 3 wins with 2 of them coming against winless teams.
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Old 11-13-2008   #59
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Default Re: McNair maybe tired of losing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
quote from article in the first post...

Every year Bob McNair is optimistic with seven games remaining while his team is out of the hunt. Most of us have bought into at least some part of this optimism for 7 years but it's very hard as a fan to be excited about the last 7 weeks of the season when your city hasn't seen a playoff game since 1993 and the team currently has 3 wins with 2 of them coming against winless teams.
It's kinda like watching reruns .

I think the subplot is Rick Smith and Kubiak . Does Rick believe he's getting the right guys and Kubiak and staff aren't coaching them up . If so does he get in Bob's ear and get Kubiak fired before he looks incompetent .
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Old 11-13-2008   #60
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Default Re: McNair maybe tired of losing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 View Post
It's kinda like watching reruns .

I think the subplot is Rick Smith and Kubiak . Does Rick believe he's getting the right guys and Kubiak and staff aren't coaching them up . If so does he get in Bob's ear and get Kubiak fired before he looks incompetent .
Do you think Smith is the driver behind player identification? I think Kubiak is the main decision maker on who to pick-up, and Smith just handles the details. Kubiak was given a lot of power when he signed; I don't know that he has relinquished any.

Opinions?
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