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Old 11-09-2008   #1
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Default Is it the players or the coach???

I read post game interviews each year, each week, after every loss and am getting confused on who the loss is on.

Players such as Chester Pitts say its not the coaches that play on the field and its their fault.

Then you have Kubiak pipe up saying it is on him and its his fault.

So whos fault is it???
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Old 11-09-2008   #2
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Default Re: Is it the players or the coach???

its everybodys fault the hole francise sucks
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Old 11-09-2008   #3
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Default Re: Is it the players or the coach???

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Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
I read post game interviews each year, each week, after every loss and am getting confused on who the loss is on.

Players such as Chester Pitts say its not the coaches that play on the field and its their fault.

Then you have Kubiak pipe up saying it is on him and its his fault.

So whos fault is it???
Both.
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Old 11-09-2008   #4
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Default Re: Is it the players or the coach???

I'll go with the coach. It's easier to replace one coach than 53 players.

Especially when a team has this many problems.
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Old 11-09-2008   #5
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Default Re: Is it the players or the coach???

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Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
I'll go with the coach. It's easier to replace one coach than 53 players.

Especially when a team has this many problems.
We don't need to replace all 53, just about 40 of them
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Old 11-09-2008   #6
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Default Re: Is it the players or the coach???

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Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
I read post game interviews each year, each week, after every loss and am getting confused on who the loss is on.

Players such as Chester Pitts say its not the coaches that play on the field and its their fault.

Then you have Kubiak pipe up saying it is on him and its his fault.

So whos fault is it???

Kubiak can only speak in "Coach-Speak" which pretty much means that Sage Rosenfels could go out there and throw 12 interceptions and Kubiak would shuffle up to the podium, thump it a few times, stare at his feet, and then say it was on him. Then he'd call everyone in the locker room "good guys" and say that "our boys" played their tails off.

In short he's useless as a source of information.

On the other hand Chester Pitts is a big fat cream puff who does just about anything he can to keep from speaking a negative word about his coaches, teammates, or even Toro. Literally he could come home and find Toro mounting his wife doggy-style and he'd come to work the next day and tell the world that Toro was his favorite mascot in the NFL and that it was Chesters fault that his wife and Toro had hooked up.

In short he's useless as a source of information.

THe truth is that the Texans organization is sort of "poisoned" (I don't go in for the term "cursed") and so there are many levels of fault at play here. The players aren't getting it done but hey, some of them are lousy players. At the same time the coaches are a mixed bag and quite a few of them are clearly incompetent. Hoke and Smith are just lousy at what they do. Kubiak has demonstrated time and time again that he's just about clueless at clock management and in-game decisions. Shanahan Jr. calls a pretty questionable game (I mean, they ran the ball 16 times last week and only 15 times this week. WTF is that all about?). Are they bad coaches or are they trying to coach bad players? Where do these bad players come from? Rick Smith goes out and gets them and I have to assume that Gary, Rick, and whoever else is involved go to Bob McNair to get whatever over-the-hill, washed up, tub of lard they want to give a bunch of money to and then his stupid ass says "Ok, as long as he's a good family man who loves Jesus" or something along those lines.

I guess my answer is "I don't know" but this team's pretty screwed up IMO.
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Old 11-09-2008   #7
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Default Re: Is it the players or the coach???

no commitment to running the ball so the pass is not expected or neccesary every damn time. I'm going to lay the brunt of my expectations on Gibbs who selected his tackle in the 1st then Slaton in the 3rd yet does not run anything close to what I would expect from a ZBS. there are no cutback lanes, the blocking is defused @ the line of scrimmage & its pass first run second.

in a nutshell the running game has been very disapointing- all around
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Old 11-09-2008   #8
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Default Re: Is it the players or the coach???

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
We don't need to replace all 53, just about 40 of them
Then that's on the coach too. He's had 3 years to get his guys on the roster.

If he can't get them to produce, then that's a coaching issue.
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Old 11-09-2008   #9
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Default Re: Is it the players or the coach???

Count me out of the swap-coaches-every-3-yrs-just-so-we-can-start-aaaall-over-again crowd.

It took Tom Landry 5 full years to get a .500 season.

you show me a coach that had success in his first 2-3 yrs and I'll show you a team that already had a good foundation when he got there.

....I'll wait.

Last edited by ObsiWan; 11-09-2008 at 07:24 PM.
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Old 11-09-2008   #10
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Default Re: Is it the players or the coach???

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Count me out of the swap coaches every 3 yrs so we can start over again crowd.

It took Tom Landry 5 full years to get a .500 season.

you show me a coach that had success in his first 2-3 yrs and I'll show you a team that already had a good foundation when he got there.

....I'll wait.
MIA was a one big, lucky play from being 0-16 last year.... ATL was a mess when Mike Smith got there as well.
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Old 11-09-2008   #11
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Default Re: Is it the players or the coach???

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Originally Posted by J-Russ View Post
MIA was a one big, lucky play from being 0-16 last year.... ATL was a mess when Mike Smith got there as well.
Also the team that just smashed us was 5-11, got a new HC and a rookie QB and they can put together an impressive win.

We have a 3rd year HC, 2nd year vet QB and can only beat teams that are worse than us this year.

My question would be, why can other teams turn their record around in 1 year and we are stuck in the cellar year after year?

We've tried a seasoned HC, but with a new franchise he couldn't make it work.

We've tried an "up and coming" rookie HC who can't get the job done.

Maybe we should think about getting a seasoned HC and give him a team that has 7-8 years under their belt.

Or we could just stand behind Kubiak and pray that he does something to turn this franchise around.
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Old 11-09-2008   #12
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Default Re: Is it the players or the coach???

This is not the same league as when Tom Landry was coaching. Free Agency, a salary cap, and a 7 round draft for starters. If you can't get it turned around faster than 3yrs in todays game you won't be around to turn it around.
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Old 11-09-2008   #13
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Default Re: Is it the players or the coach???

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Count me out of the swap-coaches-every-3-yrs-just-so-we-can-start-aaaall-over-again crowd.

It took Tom Landry 5 full years to get a .500 season.
And it took Jimmy Johnson 4 years to win a Super Bowl.

That line of thinking worked 40 years ago. Nowadays it just doesn't wash. Job security in the NFL ain't what it used to be.

If you hire a coach that can't keep showing improvement every year after completely tearing down the old regime, then you're going to get passed up by the teams that do improve.
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Old 11-09-2008   #14
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Default Re: Is it the players or the coach???

There was no cap and limited free agency when JJ turned around the evil empire. Its not easy to find a team to trade 13 players for 1 either. That helped the rebuilding more than anyone wants to remember.
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Old 11-09-2008   #15
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Default Re: Is it the players or the coach???

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Originally Posted by texanhead08 View Post
There was no cap and limited free agency when JJ turned around the evil empire. Its not easy to find a team to trade 13 players for 1 either. That helped the rebuilding more than anyone wants to remember.
I knew someone would jump on this.

The fact is that it's the same logic as "it took tom Landry 5 years to get to .500."

It's just as irrelevant.
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Old 11-09-2008   #16
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Default Re: Is it the players or the coach???

Just because the turnover for coaches is high in the NFL doesn't make it right. Jeff Fisher's first 5 seasons had 1,7,8,8,and 8 wins. I remember thinking some of his playcalling was fairly boneheaded the first few years. Things look a lot worse when your team is bad and fingers start pointing everywhere. The only way we're going to get some sort of consistency is to have a coach that sticks around longer than 3 years before we keep dismantling and rebuilding from scratch. It's frustrating to watch, but the end product is getting better.

Our offense is still moving the ball, unlike the prior regime. We get 300+ yards a game on one of the best defenses in the league. The problem is both our QBs turn it over especially when we're about to score. It seems to me that Kubiak did what he was brought here to do. He kick started our offense, we just need to find a QB who won't cough it up and the points'll start coming.
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Old 11-09-2008   #17
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Default Re: Is it the players or the coach???

I think the ownership is the problem and it goes from their on down.

McNair doesn't know a damn thing about football except it makes him money
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Old 11-09-2008   #18
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Default Re: Is it the players or the coach???

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Is it the players or the coach???


Yes.
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Old 11-09-2008   #19
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Default Re: Is it the players or the coach???

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
no commitment to running the ball so the pass is not expected or neccesary every damn time. I'm going to lay the brunt of my expectations on Gibbs who selected his tackle in the 1st then Slaton in the 3rd yet does not run anything close to what I would expect from a ZBS. there are no cutback lanes, the blocking is defused @ the line of scrimmage & its pass first run second.

in a nutshell the running game has been very disapointing- all around
Agreed Beerlover. I'm no ZBS expert. I came from the Dickie Maggle center three runs and punt school. But you are dead on on our cut blocks and cut back lanes. There aren't any. As bad as they suck...they did execute today about the best screen pass play I've seen since the Lorenzo White days in Houston. Got called back but they did get out in space and make some blocks. I'm assuming here just from the lessons of Frye days past...that Studdard and Chriss White are pretty worthless also or else they would make some kind of adjustment. You are correct. This is the Guru's hemlock and he is taking a big swig right now.

I thought the choice of not letting Jacoby Jones having a second bite at the apple on the punt return was a big slap in the face to him by Kubiak. No matter what he says on Monday he just told J.J. in front of the whole football world, you suck and I have zero faith in you. On any level pretty bad coaching, IMHO.
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Old 11-09-2008   #20
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Default Re: Is it the players or the coach???

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Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
And it took Jimmy Johnson 4 years to win a Super Bowl.

That line of thinking worked 40 years ago. Nowadays it just doesn't wash. Job security in the NFL ain't what it used to be.

If you hire a coach that can't keep showing improvement every year after completely tearing down the old regime, then you're going to get passed up by the teams that do improve.
Why ? Why shouldn't we hold on to Kubiak and let him adjust ? He's making some mistakes. some big ones. After we've paid the price for these mistakes, why would you dump him out of hand just to watch the next guy make similar mistakes. The contracts will sort out the coaches. McNair isn't a football man. Not yet any way. He's trusted people and their expertise and so far he's gotten screwed. But expecting him, Mr McNair to pay off all of these guys with two and a half years remaining on a five year deal with an option is a bit much. Kubiak will improve or they run him. It's that simple. Assumption is that better, riskier, more inventive coaching will improve the product. I don't think that is necessarily true. I think Weaver, Greenwood and the rest of the dead wood is trying just as hard as they can to make a play. They get no pressure from the front seven, in spite of the improvement from Bullman and Cockeran, which exasperates the lack of talent-athleticism-experience in the back four.

They gambled on Reeves, Duane Brown and Okoye making a jump. And so far they missed on all three of these personnel moves. So which would you rather have....not giving Mario a new deal and letting him walk. Or slumming by one more season ? As I remember it, they were on the border with twenty three million before they resigned Mario....that left them thirteen or so to do what they did. So excuse the hell out of me runner... there is still culpability for Capers and CC here. They ate what they could out of the cap disaster left behind by those two. As I remember it everyone and I mean everyone on this board was behind the switch to the four three. Did you think those DE's and LBs were going to be miracled to you by Jesus ? You gotta pay for those guys.

But beyond all of that, you can't have your QBs being the head waters of a turn over well and expect to make progress. And it won't matter who the coaches are until they fix that. Everyone on Kirby knows what the problems are. That's on Kubiak and Gibbs. The only question now is are we playing the rest of the season for a draft slot. Or are they going to do some of that guru chit and do something about it this season ? I believe Bob McNair will pay this lot off when I read it. My money and if I was him I'd leave them to stew in the sewer swill they've made for themselves the fourth year. I wouldn't save them by paying them off. I'd feed it to them by the bucket fulls. Why should Mr McNair and the fans be the only ones who are miserable ?
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