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Old 01-13-2005   #41
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I seriously doubt that we replace 3 of the 5. I can see one or perhaps two at the most....but the majority? No way. Not going to happen
Who do you think the two would be? 1 would be the TE if Joppru is healthy or we sign or draft one. We need help at TE and that's a given. So there's one. Next up IMO, is McKinney. What do you think the chances of that are? I give it 50-50, and I hope that it falls in the 50% chance for replacement. I like McKinney, but an upgrade is needed here for sure. Don't know if it's gonna happen this year or not, but it's a huge area of concern. So there's two. Next up IMO, is Weigert. While he came in and performed admirally in run blocking, his pass protection is suspect at best. An upgrade is needed here, but I don't think it's gonna happen this year. Next area for consideration is LT. I know that Seth has the size for the position. I know he has the footwork. He needs more strength and refining. I don't think he's going anywhere for a while. Was he a rock? No, but I think he may be, and I think the coaches think so as well. Next up is Wade. I think the thought of replacing him is crazy. He's a solid veteran that had a few bumpy moments in his first year here. IMO, he'll make everyone forget their negative thoughts of him next year. He is our RT for awhile. Last is Chester Pitts. I see people ragging him and I can't understand it. Consider what all he has been through. Didn't play football until college. Kyle Turley convinced him to try out for the team as he was buying groceries and Pitts was sacking them. He became a starting LT for an expansion franchise after playing football for only a few years. He progressed from year one to year two quite a bit. IMO he would be a very good LT for our team for years to come. But he was drafted to play LG and alas, that's where he's at. Like Wand, was he a rock? No, but look for great progress next year from Pitts. I think Pitts has been our best lineman, and don't look for him to get replaced. I would like to see him cut down on the false starts though. And as far as switching to the zone blocking scheme, it's a setback for some in itself. If Chester would have stayed at LT, it would have been starting over again. The coaches saw enough in Wand to stick him in there, and let him and Chester learn the nuances of their respective positions while learning a new scheme. Patience is a virtue that I posess, and Wand and Pitts performed well enough to continue their progression IMO. Now if Wand regresses, then LT becomes a concern. As of now, I just don't consider it a primary concern. But, in case things go sour, there needs to be a plan B for LT. In a nutshell, improvements on the o-line could be best addressed by having a two dimensional TE, an adequate center, and the most unpopular of the three......TIME.
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Old 01-13-2005   #42
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Originally Posted by Chance_C
We need help at TE and that's a given.
True, but I believe the TE is apart from the OL, a different issue entirely
especially when you take into consideration the expanded role TEs
are playing in many NFL offenses. The real impact TEs today are becoming
more like WR and less like OLinemen, though they still are involved much more
in blocking than WRs (who duies are mainly limited to downfield blocking and never against DL for obvious reasons). But its misleading to lump a teams TE needs in with their OL needs, 2 different issues. Having steller performer
at TE today is almost if not at the level of RB or the teams leading WR. An
NFL offense is really incomplete today without a versatile, atheletic, pass receiver at TE.
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Old 01-13-2005   #43
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Yeah, I agree with you. Alot of people had mentioned the TE in the thread, and it's a fact that we need a two dimensional TE. Not having a TE that can actually block and catch has hindered the progress of our line, and therefore should be considered when discussing avenues of improvement for our line.
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Old 01-13-2005   #44
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When we drafted Bennie Joprru thats what we were getting was a two-dimensional TE. At Michigan he was known more for his blocking early on, but during the corse of this senior season he came on as a pass catcher and that was the main reason why we drafted him. He had loads of potentional. We just haven't seen that potenintial with all of his injuries. I think he will come back strong this offseason, finally recovering from whatever he has, a groin injury or somethin like that, and be our starting TE. We will NOT find a "complete" TE in this draft. Health Miller, Everett, all pass cathers. Good TE prospects, but not really what we are looking for. You can draft them and think you have the problem fixed and they may be productive, but they will never be what we are looking for. Lets face it. Right now our TE hopes lie in the hands of Bennie Joppru.
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Old 01-13-2005   #45
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Originally Posted by THE_HONKEY_TONK_KID
...We will NOT find a "complete" TE in this draft. Health Miller, Everett, all pass cathers. Good TE prospects, but not really what we are looking for. You can draft them and think you have the problem fixed and they may be productive, but they will never be what we are looking for. Lets face it. Right now our TE hopes lie in the hands of Bennie Joppru.

I beg to differ on this one...Saying that our TE hopes lie with BJ is a pretty bold statement. I like to think that Casserly and Capers are better than that and won't let a 3rd year guy who hasn't played a single down in the NFL control the direction of the franchise at his position. If he works out great...but more than likely he is on the way out. If he can't produce this coming seaon he's outta here. No NFL franchise will put that much time and money into a guy that they don't believe will produce. Even if he does come back his stock is clearly capped due to obvious injury concerns.

As far as Miller, he has been compared often with Todd Heap in terms of build, athletic ability, and potential. I have only had the opportunity to watch Miller in 3 games this past year and I noted that he is definetly not a one dimensional TE. I saw him executing several chips and double teams very well as well as a couple good seal blocks on LBs. He is not an psuedo-guard like Bruenor is but he is not a doorman either. I bet he will have to work on blocking just like pretty much every other top flight TE in the league had to when they 1st came in. Can anyone name one of the premier TEs in the game that were touted as "great blockers and great receivers"?
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Old 01-24-2005   #46
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Evidently the Chargers are not going to get any kind of preferential treatment from Houck:

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Though everyone in San Diego feels the team can ill afford to lose out on the services of OL coach Hudson Houck, he indicated last week that he plans to exercise the right to talk to other clubs when his contract expires this week. The Dolphins and new head coach Nick Saban appeared to be in hot pursuit of Houck.
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This strikes me as one of those outside of the cap issues where a bidding war and spending the money can benefit the team. Probably won't happen but I'd at least like to hear that the Texans interview him.
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Old 01-24-2005   #47
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Correct me if I'm wrong but don't we have 2 O-line coaches, one who works with the tackles and one who works with the centers and guards? If that is the case maybe thats the problem. The problem being that the O-line isn't practicing as a "full unit" but in 2 segiments and the 2 aren't gelling.
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Old 01-24-2005   #48
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they still practice together as a unit, you ever watched their practices ? Maybe we just need 1 OL line coach though.
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Old 01-24-2005   #49
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Originally Posted by MIGHTYTEX
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't we have 2 O-line coaches, one who works with the tackles and one who works with the centers and guards?
Joe Pendry is the OL coach for the guards and centers. Steve Marshall is the OL coach for the tackles. Tony Marciano is the TE's coach. Pendry is in charge though.
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Old 01-24-2005   #50
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I think grabbing houck would be a HUGE HUGE HUUUUGGGGEEEE step in the right direction for our Oline.
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Old 01-25-2005   #51
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they still practice together as a unit, you ever watched their practices ?
Nope, never saw them practice. I live in Pennsylvania.
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Old 01-25-2005   #52
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...4 coaches for the OL! That is incredible! How can we have so many OL
problems? Thats almost 1 coach per blocker and doesn't take into account
the receiver coach or the running back coach or the QB, plus the OC--
did I leave a coach out, like maybe a quality control coach? All these coaches
will have something to do with blocking, some more than others. Since
pass blocking did not change in the new scheme, I'm still having a real tough
time figuring out why we can't protect the QB. And, finally, a point made
by several posters still rings true--- every other team in the NFL could
protect their QB against us and those same teams could pressure ours--
something is wrong here!!!
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Old 01-25-2005   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhc564
...4 coaches for the OL! That is incredible! How can we have so many OL
problems? Thats almost 1 coach per blocker and doesn't take into account
the receiver coach or the running back coach or the QB, plus the OC--
did I leave a coach out, like maybe a quality control coach? All these coaches
will have something to do with blocking, some more than others. Since
pass blocking did not change in the new scheme, I'm still having a real tough
time figuring out why we can't protect the QB. And, finally, a point made
by several posters still rings true--- every other team in the NFL could
protect their QB against us and those same teams could pressure ours--
something is wrong here!!!

maybe the o-line coaches are telling different players different things, and if thats the case no wonder they suck. so we might have 6 guys trying to block the same guy i dunno !
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Old 01-25-2005   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhc564
...4 coaches for the OL! That is incredible!
Where do you get 4? There are two OL coaches plus a TE's coach that works with the OL coaches on blocking assignments.
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Old 01-28-2005   #55
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Here is a good article about the Patriots OL which currently starts:

LT--2nd round pick
LG--undrafted free agent
C--5th round pick--sat one year, started the last two
RG--undrafted free agent, in fact was a college wrestler who didn't play football
RT--undrafted free agent

The Patriots have been very patient developing these guys. Only Matt Light the LT started as a rookie.

Link
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Old 01-28-2005   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
C--5th round pick--sat one year, started the last two

The Patriots have been very patient developing these guys. Only Matt Light the LT started as a rookie.
The Pats center, Dan Koppen, started all but 1 game for the Pats in '03, his rookie season. The credit for this O-line's production belongs to Dante Scarnecchia, who has been an assistant coach for New England for 22 of the past 24 seasons.
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Old 01-28-2005   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
Here is a good article about the Patriots OL which currently starts:
LT--2nd round pick
LG--undrafted free agent
C--5th round pick--sat one year, started the last two
RG--undrafted free agent, in fact was a college wrestler who didn't play football
RT--undrafted free agent
The Patriots have been very patient developing these guys. Only Matt Light the LT started as a rookie.
Link
That's stunning, 3 starters on the SB champs OL are undrafted FAs and a 4th
was not taken until the 5th round ! Talk about being able to discover diamonds in the rough.
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Old 01-28-2005   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
The Pats center, Dan Koppen, started all but 1 game for the Pats in '03, his rookie season. The credit for this O-line's production belongs to Dante Scarnecchia, who has been an assistant coach for New England for 22 of the past 24 seasons.
Koppen did start as a rookie. I got thrown off by the article saying he was drafted in 2002. Koppen was in the 2003 draft.
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