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Old 10-16-2008   #1
Hooston Texan
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Default Our red-zone defense: maybe the worst of all time.

Just saw a jaw-dropping stat:
Texans' opponents have gotten inside our 20 a total of 16 times so far this season. On 15 of those 16 occasions, they came away with the TD. The only time the opponent didn't score a TD was when Jacksonville kicked a second-down FG in overtime to win the game.

I'm not sure what the all-time record is for poor redzone defense, but the Texans have got to be challenging it 5 games into the season. It is almost impossible to be worse.

For all the talk about our offense's struggles in the redzone, I'm surprised I haven't seen this mentioned before.
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Old 10-16-2008   #2
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Default Re: Our red-zone defense: maybe the worst of all time.

How many times did the opposition start in our red-zone or in positive yardage situations due to turnovers ? Just curious...

Defense definitely has to improve in that area.
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Old 10-16-2008   #3
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Default Re: Our red-zone defense: maybe the worst of all time.

And yet another stat to show Mr. Mcnair about our D coordinator. At least our offense has scored TDs a few times in the redzone, the is pretty much making it a gimme for the opp.
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Old 10-16-2008   #4
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Default Re: Our red-zone defense: maybe the worst of all time.

Wow...that is a crazy stat. Unbelievable
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Old 10-16-2008   #5
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Default Re: Our red-zone defense: maybe the worst of all time.

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Originally Posted by Polo View Post
How many times did the opposition start in our red-zone or in positive yardage situations due to turnovers ? Just curious...

Defense definitely has to improve in that area.
In answer to your question going game-by-game:

Pittsburgh's TD drives were: 52 yards, 76, 32, 71 and 80. The 52 yard drive followed the failed fourth-down gamble. The 32 yard drive followed an int.

Tennessee's TD drives: 77, 68, 74. Interestingly, each TD came after a Texans' score.

Jacksonville's TD drives: 59, 76, 62.

Indy's TD drives: 64, 81, 20. Sage's second fumble set up the 20-yard drive.

Miami's TD drives: 55, 80, 73, 73.

So, of those 18 TD drives, only two were "short field" situations where the opponent started on our side of the 50. And only one of those drives started in the redzone, and that one was right on the 20. So you really can blame no one but the defense for this horrific stat.
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Old 10-16-2008   #6
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Default Re: Our red-zone defense: maybe the worst of all time.

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Originally Posted by Hooston Texan View Post
In answer to your question going game-by-game:

Pittsburgh's TD drives were: 52 yards, 76, 32, 71 and 80. The 52 yard drive followed the failed fourth-down gamble. The 32 yard drive followed an int.

Tennessee's TD drives: 77, 68, 74. Interestingly, each TD came after a Texans' score.

Jacksonville's TD drives: 59, 76, 62.

Indy's TD drives: 64, 81, 20. Sage's second fumble set up the 20-yard drive.

Miami's TD drives: 55, 80, 73, 73.

So, of those 18 TD drives, only two were "short field" situations where the opponent started on our side of the 50. And only one of those drives started in the redzone, and that one was right on the 20. So you really can blame no one but the defense for this horrific stat.

Yep....Gotta be stingier down there...Gotta be stingier period...
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Old 10-16-2008   #7
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Default Re: Our red-zone defense: maybe the worst of all time.

Remember in the pre-season how people would defend the team saying "You want to keep the defense vanilla so they dont see all our plays." Well it turns out that vanilla is our actual defense.
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Old 10-16-2008   #8
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Default Re: Our red-zone defense: maybe the worst of all time.

I could be wrong, but I think that we have yet to stop an opponent from getting a first down/TD on fourth down.
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Old 10-16-2008   #9
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Default Re: Our red-zone defense: maybe the worst of all time.

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Remember in the pre-season how people would defend the team saying "You want to keep the defense vanilla so they dont see all our plays." Well it turns out that vanilla is our actual defense.



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Old 10-16-2008   #10
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Default Re: Our red-zone defense: maybe the worst of all time.

In looking at the opponents drives in responding to Polo's question, I came across another weird trend: our defense seems to perform best in quick-change situations.

We've given the ball up on an interception, fumble or downs 15 times this season. Two of those turnovers were returned for TDs, so that's 13 times the D took the field after a turnover of some type. In those 13 possessions, our opponents have managed to score only 5 times. The Steelers cashed in our first two turnovers for TDs, so, following our last 11 turnovers that weren't returned for TDs, our D has only allowed a total of 17 points. That's really pretty good. The point-after-turnover part.

By my count, the Texans' D has forced a three-and-out or better (by better, I mean a turnover before a first down) 16 times this season. Of those 16 possessions, nearly half (7) came after Texans' turnovers.

So playing against the Texan D is like boiling a frog: if you throw them into hot water, they'll manage to jump out. But if you put them in comfortable water and then methodically raise the temperature, dinner is served.
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Old 10-16-2008   #11
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Default Re: Our red-zone defense: maybe the worst of all time.

Just for some perspective:


Team Poss TD FG Scor Pct TD Pct
1. T.B. 11 3 8 1.000 .273
2. N.O. 22 7 11 .818 .318
3. Ind. 15 5 7 .800 .333
4. Car. 12 4 6 .833 .333
5. Ten. 14 5 3 .571 .357
6. N.Y.G. 11 4 7 1.000 .364
7. G.B. 20 8 8 .800 .400
8. S.F. 25 10 10 .800 .400
9. Balt. 10 4 5 .900 .400
10. Pitt. 12 5 6 .917 .417
11. Chi. 19 8 9 .895 .421
12. K.C. 17 8 6 .824 .471
13. S.D. 24 12 6 .750 .500
14. Buff. 14 7 4 .786 .500
15. Den. 22 11 8 .864 .500
16. Sea. 18 9 9 1.000 .500
17. Wash. 14 7 7 1.000 .500
18. Cin. 21 11 9 .952 .524
19. Dall. 21 11 10 1.000 .524
20. Minn. 17 9 4 .765 .529
21. Mia. 17 9 4 .765 .529
22. Phil. 13 7 4 .846 .538
23. Det. 20 11 5 .800 .550
24. Atl. 18 10 3 .722 .556
25. N.Y.J. 23 13 5 .783 .565
26. Ariz. 15 9 4 .867 .600
27. St.L. 18 11 5 .889 .611
28. Clev. 16 10 0 .625 .625
29. N.E. 17 11 4 .882 .647
30. Oak. 20 13 5 .900 .650
31. Jax. 18 13 4 .944 .722
32. Hou. 16 15 1 1.000 .938


We're dead last in Red Zone Defense....Not really shocking since we're pretty close to the bottom in defense period...Jags one spot above us...Guess their coordinator sucks too...93% TD rate is pretty awful tho'...

http://wwwedit.profootballweekly.com...m?mode=defense

Last edited by Polo; 10-16-2008 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 10-16-2008   #12
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Default Re: Our red-zone defense: maybe the worst of all time.

Ouch. There are stats, and then there are stats. Some reveal some troubling tendencies and breakdowns, like turnover ratios, RZ defensive stats or offensive third down conversion rates.

They have got to improve this one if we want to win many games this season. This is horrific.
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Old 10-16-2008   #13
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Default Re: Our red-zone defense: maybe the worst of all time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo View Post
Just for some perspective:


Team Poss TD FG Scor Pct TD Pct
1. T.B. 11 3 8 1.000 .273
2. N.O. 22 7 11 .818 .318
3. Ind. 15 5 7 .800 .333
4. Car. 12 4 6 .833 .333
5. Ten. 14 5 3 .571 .357
6. N.Y.G. 11 4 7 1.000 .364
7. G.B. 20 8 8 .800 .400
8. S.F. 25 10 10 .800 .400
9. Balt. 10 4 5 .900 .400
10. Pitt. 12 5 6 .917 .417
11. Chi. 19 8 9 .895 .421
12. K.C. 17 8 6 .824 .471
13. S.D. 24 12 6 .750 .500
14. Buff. 14 7 4 .786 .500
15. Den. 22 11 8 .864 .500
16. Sea. 18 9 9 1.000 .500
17. Wash. 14 7 7 1.000 .500
18. Cin. 21 11 9 .952 .524
19. Dall. 21 11 10 1.000 .524
20. Minn. 17 9 4 .765 .529
21. Mia. 17 9 4 .765 .529
22. Phil. 13 7 4 .846 .538
23. Det. 20 11 5 .800 .550
24. Atl. 18 10 3 .722 .556
25. N.Y.J. 23 13 5 .783 .565
26. Ariz. 15 9 4 .867 .600
27. St.L. 18 11 5 .889 .611
28. Clev. 16 10 0 .625 .625
29. N.E. 17 11 4 .882 .647
30. Oak. 20 13 5 .900 .650
31. Jax. 18 13 4 .944 .722
32. Hou. 16 15 1 1.000 .938


We're dead last in Red Zone Defense....Not really shocking since we're pretty close to the bottom in defense period...Jags one spot above us...Guess their coordinator sucks too...93% TD rate is pretty awful tho'...
I know you're trying to be a smart alleck with this comment, but it is his first year with the Jags.

I'm not saying that Williams is the source of their problems, but players might be struggling to adapt. Two rookie DE's surely doesn't help either.
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Old 10-16-2008   #14
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Default Re: Our red-zone defense: maybe the worst of all time.

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I know you're trying to be a smart alleck with this comment, but it is his first year with the Jags.

I'm not saying that Williams is the source of their problems, but players might be struggling to adapt. Two rookie DE's surely doesn't help either.
Actually I wasn't trying to be a smart alleck...Just looking at the stats from all angles.....93% TD rate is awful, but if you look at where teams are located on the list it's not really a telling sign of how the defense is doing overall (In our case it indeed might be)....the teams are all over the place...

San Fran is ranked lower than us in defense, but they are in the top ten in Red Zone Defense even though they have allowed their opponents to get in their redzone 25 times with 10 TD's, and 10 FG's..

I know we've had some big plays against us, but if you look at the amount of times teams have gotten into our redzone we don't look as bad...

Last edited by Polo; 10-16-2008 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 10-16-2008   #15
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Default Re: Our red-zone defense: maybe the worst of all time.

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DEFENSE




Great pic on sundays I am usually praying for them to make stops on third down (fourth down this year)
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Old 10-16-2008   #16
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Default Re: Our red-zone defense: maybe the worst of all time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo View Post
Actually I wasn't trying to be a smart alleck...Just looking at the stats from all angles.....93% TD rate is awful, but if you look at where teams are located on the list it's not really a telling sign of how the defense is doing overall (In our case it indeed might be)....the teams are all over the place...

San Fran is ranked lower than us in defense, but they are in the top ten in Red Zone Defense even though they have allowed their opponents to get in their redzone 25 times with 10 TD's, and 10 FG's..

I know we've had some big plays against us, but if you look at the amount of times teams have gotten into our redzone we don't look as bad...
Your post implies that there is some amount of randomness to this stat, but redzone play is a big part of what teams practice. They need to: the shrunken field changes the way both offenses and defenses can operate. We may be better defending the entire field than the Niners, but that does not mean they cannot be better than us in short-field scenarios.

Still, we are so far beyond the next-worst team that any such comparisons are worthless. It's like a pitching staff that gives up 300 homers when the next-worst staff allowed only 180. Yes, the Jags are bad, but we are beyond godawful.

Our redzone defense is a welcome mat.
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Old 10-16-2008   #17
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Default Re: Our red-zone defense: maybe the worst of all time.

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Our redzone defense is a welcome mat.
I agree. Never said it wasn't. My post was about overall defense though. Dont know how you missed it.
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Old 10-16-2008   #18
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Default Re: Our red-zone defense: maybe the worst of all time.

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Originally Posted by Polo View Post
I agree. Never said it wasn't. My post was about overall defense though. Dont know how you missed it.
The first two paragraphs of my post were in response to yours. The line you quoted was something I wish I had put in my original post, but didn't come up with it until later (alas). So I had to put it somewhere.
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Old 10-16-2008   #19
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Default Re: Our red-zone defense: maybe the worst of all time.

Its such a strange stat, because (And I don't know if this is correct or not) I believe we used to be exactly the opposite last year and this preseason. We used to be a "Bend but don't break" type defense that gave up a lot of FGs. Now we are a bend and break defense
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Old 10-16-2008   #20
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Default Re: Our red-zone defense: maybe the worst of all time.

We are in the top 5 in yards gained, our red zone execution is why we arent scoring like a top 5 offense. If we get to 75% td's scored in the red zone that will equal 3 extra wins.
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