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Old 10-12-2008   #101
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Default Re: Sick of Schaub?

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To answer your question no I wouldn't, but it wasn't, so I'm not going to criticize him for int's that didn't happen. There are several passes in every game that a QB gets away with.
I understand that but do you understand my point? We can't always count on the defender to drop those, much less the ones they dropped before that.

I'll give Schaub his props, as I should, I just expected a little more realistic analysis rather than:

WE WON, so, STFU.
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Old 10-12-2008   #102
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Default Re: Sick of Schaub?

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
I understand that but do you understand my point? We can't always count on the defender to drop those, much less the ones they dropped before that.

I'll give Schaub his props, as I should, I just expected a little more realistic analysis rather than:

WE WON, so, STFU.
Yeah, I understand. It's just that when an offense is asked to go the length of the field and score a TD in that amount of time, it's tough. You don't see it happen too often, especially not from the Texans.
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Old 10-12-2008   #103
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Default Re: Sick of Schaub?

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Originally Posted by relianttexan View Post
it's funny how we have to take away those last 4 minutes, but the last 4 minutes are the most important minutes of a game. That's when you make plays to win a game or lose a game. I'll take a qb who starts off bad but then comes back and makes plays to win rather than a qb who plays great for 4 and a half qrts. And single handedly blows a 17 point lead in the last 5 minutes.
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Old 10-12-2008   #104
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Default Re: Sick of Schaub?

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I understand that but do you understand my point? We can't always count on the defender to drop those, much less the ones they dropped before that.
There are always a ton of "if's" in a game.

IF Eugene Wilson hadn't fumbled, we could have run the clock out and won the game then.

If AJ hadn't fumbled, we probably would have scored and iced the game.

If Mario had made that tackle, we would have lost.

In lots of games, you can look at a QB (even good ones) and pick out a bunch of questionable decisions during a game that the defense didn't capitalize on. Schaub made some great throws, he made some questionable throws, he made some bad decisions, he had some good throws that could have been picked off.

I understand that you're saying that this game could have easily gone against us and if a few of these other passes had been picked off, it would have. But I think that's an unfair and unrealistic criticism. That's like criticising Favre or Manning when they throw into tight coverage because they believe they can make the throw AND that their receivers will step up and make a play for them. I want him to take some of those risks because it allows AJ and KW to show just how amazing they are.
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Old 10-12-2008   #105
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Default Re: Sick of Schaub?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
There are always a ton of "if's" in a game.

IF Eugene Wilson hadn't fumbled, we could have run the clock out and won the game then.

If AJ hadn't fumbled, we probably would have scored and iced the game.

If Mario had made that tackle, we would have lost.

In lots of games, you can look at a QB (even good ones) and pick out a bunch of questionable decisions during a game that the defense didn't capitalize on. Schaub made some great throws, he made some questionable throws, he made some bad decisions, he had some good throws that could have been picked off.

I understand that you're saying that this game could have easily gone against us and if a few of these other passes had been picked off, it would have. But I think that's an unfair and unrealistic criticism. That's like criticising Favre or Manning when they throw into tight coverage because they believe they can make the throw AND that their receivers will step up and make a play for them. I want him to take some of those risks because it allows AJ and KW to show just how amazing they are.
It's unfair and unrealistic to look at those plays within the scope of a single game. Taken as a whole, however, you can definitely notice trends. Schaub has developed a pattern of making several bad throws a game, dating back to his first game as a Texan. Sometimes it comes back to bite him and sometimes it doesn't. If you want to compare his situation to Favre, or to an early Elway, then Schaub has to make more positive plays than negative plays, and he has to more directly affect the wins of the team than he affects the losses of the team.

Schaub is only a dozen or so games into his starting career. My own personal barometer for gauging his value to this team is about 32 starts. Hence, I am about 12/32 of the way toward forming my final opinion. So far, I can say that the gauge is on the negative side, but not hopelessly so.
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Old 10-12-2008   #106
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Default Re: Sick of Schaub?

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I understand that you're saying that this game could have easily gone against us and if a few of these other passes had been picked off, it would have. But I think that's an unfair and unrealistic criticism. That's like criticising Favre or Manning when they throw into tight coverage because they believe they can make the throw AND that their receivers will step up and make a play for them. I want him to take some of those risks because it allows AJ and KW to show just how amazing they are.
The difference is that Manning and Favre are proven, consistent winners. Schaub hasn't proven to be consistent yet. He hasn't strung 3 games together where he has played well. You know Favre and Manning will come back from it. Schaub I don't. I get worried.

Main point I was making in this thread is that some people are so happy about how Matt played but had the defenders caught the balls he threw to them, people would be singing a different tune.

I look at things a bit different than the lot here it seems. I see those throws as bad decisions, picked or not picked. Just as bad as a pick when it comes to grading his decision making. May not effect the game, but it's a negative on the grade sheet.

I'm just trying to figure out if Schaub can be a consistent QB and this game didn't prove it to me. I saw alot of inconsistency and alot of bad decisions that don't show up on the stat sheet. I also saw alot of nice plays, and good throws.

It'd be one thing if Schaub sucked, it'd be an easy decision. But he doesn't. He is just inconsistent, and that can be just as bad as being a bad QB. It's hard to grade him because of this, and I think that's why you have so many different opinions of him.
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Old 10-12-2008   #107
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Default Re: Sick of Schaub?

Seminole is right and hilarious how so many of you can jump on and off the band wagon of a guy that was a career back up that has been inconsistent since he got here.

He made several bad decisions and continued to throw into double coverage throughout the game today. He made a few nice throws and all, but he is still the same Shaub and how you guys forget that the Texans were a few quick seconds from being 0-5.

The WR's are the ones that put the game on their back in the end. ANDRE JOHNSON took this team down the field at the end of the game with that amazing catch that he shouldn't have gotten.

Shaub is not the QB that will take this team any where and there isn't any evidence to support that he is at this point. The Texans are 1-4 and still have a lot of improving to do.
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Old 10-12-2008   #108
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Default Re: Sick of Schaub?

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
I understand that but do you understand my point? We can't always count on the defender to drop those, much less the ones they dropped before that.

I'll give Schaub his props, as I should, I just expected a little more realistic analysis rather than:

WE WON, so, STFU.
Dont worry some of us get it! I have been trying to get the same point across all day but people are blinded by the win. Everyones fav thing to say is "youre just a Sage guy","Schaub grinded out a victory you should be happy". Rolleyes!
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Old 10-12-2008   #109
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Default Re: Sick of Schaub?

anyone notice johnson had his helment off after schaub's td. isnt that a 15 yarder? not that it would of mattered, well knowing our team it might have mattered.
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Old 10-13-2008   #110
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Default Re: Sick of Schaub?

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anyone notice johnson had his helment off after schaub's td. isnt that a 15 yarder? not that it would of mattered, well knowing our team it might have mattered.
Shshshshsshshshshshshsh?!
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Old 10-13-2008   #111
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Default Re: Sick of Schaub?

I think Schaub needs to have AT LEAST as many TD passes as ints. Otherwise, it will be real easy to see the problem, because his QB rating will suck donkeys.

He's not even even so far this year, IIRC. That's not good.
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Old 10-13-2008   #112
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Default Re: Sick of Schaub?

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The difference is that Manning and Favre are proven, consistent winners. Schaub hasn't proven to be consistent yet. He hasn't strung 3 games together where he has played well. You know Favre and Manning will come back from it. Schaub I don't. I get worried.
But my point is that you need to compare Schaub at this stage of his career to Favre and Elway and guys like that at the same stage in their careers and not at the end of their careers after they became known as consistent winners. And then you have to realize that you're comparing Schaub to HOF players.

Favre was always considered inconsistent and erratic during the first few years of his career. And much more inconsistent than Schaub has been.

Schaub is still relatively inexperienced. Maybe he'll develop into a great QB and maybe he won't but it's way too early to judge. Sometimes you've got to give the QB time to work through these things and I think this is one of those times. We've all seen that when Schaub is on, he can be seriously good. He makes deep completions and he throws for a high completion percentage without throwing only -2 to 2 yard passes.

But, at least a part of my point, is that it seems to me that you're holding him to a higher level of consistency than is reasonable. No QB is going to make only good decisions and make only good throws. A good QB has to take risks and some of those risks are going to look like bad or questionable decisions and ultimately you have to judge them on whether it actually worked out or not. If you have a QB that only plays it safe, then you've got a guy that doesn't have the cojones to really be a good QB.
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Old 10-13-2008   #113
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Default Re: Sick of Schaub?

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anyone notice johnson had his helment off after schaub's td. isnt that a 15 yarder? not that it would of mattered, well knowing our team it might have mattered.
Looked like the helmet was rolling around on the field between the back end zone line and the stands...so, I think there's a good chance that AJ was technically off the field of play when he did it.

I noticed the same thing: A helmet bouncing onto the ground, but no person near it for me to i.d. whose helmet it was. The refs are always on top of those things, so I figured the person took it off after stepping outside of the playing field's lines.

Because there's no distinction between sidelines and the area between the back line of the end zone & the end zone stands, right? They're both technically OFF the field of play.
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Old 10-13-2008   #114
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Default Re: Sick of Schaub?

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
The difference is that Manning and Favre are proven, consistent winners. Schaub hasn't proven to be consistent yet. He hasn't strung 3 games together where he has played well. You know Favre and Manning will come back from it. Schaub I don't. I get worried.

Main point I was making in this thread is that some people are so happy about how Matt played but had the defenders caught the balls he threw to them, people would be singing a different tune.

I look at things a bit different than the lot here it seems. I see those throws as bad decisions, picked or not picked. Just as bad as a pick when it comes to grading his decision making. May not effect the game, but it's a negative on the grade sheet.

I'm just trying to figure out if Schaub can be a consistent QB and this game didn't prove it to me. I saw alot of inconsistency and alot of bad decisions that don't show up on the stat sheet. I also saw alot of nice plays, and good throws.

It'd be one thing if Schaub sucked, it'd be an easy decision. But he doesn't. He is just inconsistent, and that can be just as bad as being a bad QB. It's hard to grade him because of this, and I think that's why you have so many different opinions of him.
So if a QB gets hit when throwing and the ball is picked is that his fault (which happened in this game)? All QBs will try to force some balls into tight coverage, especially when throwing at their playmakers. That last catch AJ had is a perfect example. AJ was covered but Schaub gave him a chance to make a play.

Schaub will end up being a better then average QB when all is said and done. HE will always be a guy that needs help around him, and there is nothing wrong with that. Let's not forget that he has faced very tough defenses in each game as well, and the OL has struggled providing protection at times. That can certainly effect decision making ability, even in top level QBs. He is not in the same league as Manning, BRady, Farve, McNabb ect.. but neither are most of the other QBs in the league, those guys are hard to find. To me Schaub can more of a game manager type of QB. Give him a strong running game and he can be effective. Will he take us to the SB I don't know, but neither does anyone else. Even the star Qbs tend to struggle early in the careers.
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Old 10-13-2008   #115
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Default Re: Sick of Schaub?

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So if a QB gets hit when throwing and the ball is picked is that his fault (which happened in this game)? All QBs will try to force some balls into tight coverage, especially when throwing at their playmakers. That last catch AJ had is a perfect example. AJ was covered but Schaub gave him a chance to make a play.

Schaub will end up being a better then average QB when all is said and done. HE will always be a guy that needs help around him, and there is nothing wrong with that. Let's not forget that he has faced very tough defenses in each game as well, and the OL has struggled providing protection at times. That can certainly effect decision making ability, even in top level QBs. He is not in the same league as Manning, BRady, Farve, McNabb ect.. but neither are most of the other QBs in the league, those guys are hard to find. To me Schaub can more of a game manager type of QB. Give him a strong running game and he can be effective. Will he take us to the SB I don't know, but neither does anyone else. Even the star Qbs tend to struggle early in the careers.
I agree with this.

But I'm going to expand on one point. Schaub as "game manager." Most "game manager" types of QB's really don't do all that well with the deep ball. One thing I really like about Schaub is his ability to get the ball down the field. I think he's eventually going to be one step back from the Manning/Brady/Favre level: not as steady as Brady, not as smart as Manning, not as gutsy and resilient as Favre. And I think that's good enough to get us into the playoffs and win a SB at some point.

I don't look at this guy and see a backup QB. And I think some people on this board DO look at him and just see a backup QB and I think that's way too harsh of a judgment.
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