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Old 09-29-2008   #1
Silver Oak
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Default Jags fake punt

After re-watching in slow motion a few times, here's the sequence as I see it. The overlaid scoreboard is in the way of the Texans sideline, so all players and coaches are not visible:

-Jacoby Jones is busy counting Texans players making sure we have the right number on the field...apparently he is not looking into the Jags backfield.

-unidentified Texans player scrambling to get off the field before the snap. Must be why JJ was counting.

-Antwaun Molden runs back and forth trying to find his spot, which is on the other side where there is only one Texan ready to bump the Jags ST player.

-referee almost backs into and blocks Molden. ***** zebra.

-unidentified Texans coaches, at least two, seem to become animated judging by their walk. maybe they saw something on the field...can't tell due to CBS scoreboard display.

-Fred Bennett can be seen looking into the Jags backfield, yet still does not change his position.

-Dominique Barber gets turned around and is not able to get a clean tackle attempt on runner.

-Del Rio raises his arms in triumph on the sidelines.

-Jacoby Jones makes fairly pathetic tackle attempt.

-Faggins and Bennett become aware of the fake...Faggins tries to strip the ball and misses the tackle.

-Jacques Reeves and Dreesen arrive just in time to congratulate the Hag on a great fake.

My take: there was some confusion on assignments to begin with on this play. Yes, of course someone should have called TO, but maybe like Kubiak said, they saw it and thought they could stop it. I tend to agre with him...they should have been able to stop a 4 yd run. However, the Jags did a great job on the blocking up front, catching the Texans line off balance.
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Old 09-29-2008   #2
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Default Re: Jags fake punt

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Originally Posted by Silver Oak View Post
-Jacques Reeves and Dreesen arrive just in time to congratulate the Hag on a great fake..
Best line from the analysis...
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Old 09-29-2008   #3
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Default Re: Jags fake punt

I did the same thing - I must've rewatched it about 10 times. I pretty much saw it the same way.

Two things stood out to me:

1. Once the play started, Bennett and Faggins were so locked onto the same gunner that they didn't realize what was happening until it was almost too late. Faggins trying to strip with no attempt to make the tackle was just lame.

2. After the play, Kubes could be seen "discussing" what had just happened with someone upstairs. He was not happy. I wish I was a better lip reader...
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Old 09-29-2008   #4
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Default Re: Jags fake punt

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Originally Posted by Arky View Post
I did the same thing - I must've rewatched it about 10 times. I pretty much saw it the same way.

Two things stood out to me:

1. Once the play started, Bennett and Faggins were so locked onto the same gunner that they didn't realize what was happening until it was almost too late. Faggins trying to strip with no attempt to make the tackle was just lame.

2. After the play, Kubes could be seen "discussing" what had just happened with someone upstairs. He was not happy. I wish I was a better lip reader...
We've seen more than just this issue with ... "the guy upstairs" ..... I doubt that guy keeps his job.
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Old 09-29-2008   #5
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Default Re: Jags fake punt

Who did the Texans have on the field, specifically on the 'defensive' line? Regardless of the touchdown run, Kubiak was counting on them to stop a four yard run against the Jags' offensive line. Just how overmatched were they?
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Old 09-29-2008   #6
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Default Re: Jags fake punt

From what I can remember and from the contents of this thread, the play sets up as follows. Please correct any details I'm wrong about.

The Jags had two gunners and a fullback taking a direct snap. This left eight regular offensive players on the line to block.

The Texans had one kick returner and four guys on the outside blocking the gunners. Is this correct, or was there only three on the outside? If it was four, that leaves six players on the line for the Texans.

This results in six, maybe seven Texans on the defensive line, many of them special teamers. The Jaguars had eight people blocking them, including their strarting offensive linemen.

Why does Kubiak think they were set up to stuff the play? The Texans were easily outnumbered and 'out-talented' all along the area of attack.
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Old 09-29-2008   #7
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Default Re: Jags fake punt

We were asleep and not ready to play till they scored on that play. I saw a combination of bad coaching, poor instincts from players, poor leadership from whomever is the lead player on field, and some of the most atrocious tackling I've ever seen on a NFL team. It looked like they were in some pre-season drill and nobody wanted to get their uniform dirty. I've seen pop warner team players sell out their bodies more than these guys who only made half-ass attempts to strip the ball....unreal and unacceptable. The team should be totally embarrassed by that play and the rest of the league has it on tape forever...and they are all laughing at us.
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Old 09-29-2008   #8
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Default Re: Jags fake punt

I did not tape the game, but I do remember the ball carrier was running downfield with a Texan right beside him. They actually bumped each other, and the Texan never made an attempt to tackle the ball carrier. I've never seen anything like that before.
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Old 09-29-2008   #9
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Default Re: Jags fake punt

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Originally Posted by Arky View Post
I did the same thing - I must've rewatched it about 10 times. I pretty much saw it the same way.

Two things stood out to me:

1. Once the play started, Bennett and Faggins were so locked onto the same gunner that they didn't realize what was happening until it was almost too late. Faggins trying to strip with no attempt to make the tackle was just lame.

2. After the play, Kubes could be seen "discussing" what had just happened with someone upstairs. He was not happy. I wish I was a better lip reader...
I just think it should be noted that Faggins at least tried to do something. What the hell was Bennett doing? They were both in a position to keep Owens out of the endzone.

Barber was blocked and didn't handle it well, but he was trying and has an excuse.

Jones tackles like a wide receiver. I guess that's a good excuse.

Faggins and Bennett have no excuse. Reeves and Dreesen should have hustled more.

Overall, the coaches get the blame for this bull. The players were not put in a position to win this battle.

Although, as a coach, I would expect my players to not **** up like these guys did. There were at least three guys that had a legitimate opportunity to stop the runner. It's just that they were 6'0" 190lb guys going after a full back with blockers.
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Old 09-29-2008   #10
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Default Re: Jags fake punt

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Originally Posted by jdog View Post
Although, as a coach, I would expect my players to not **** up like these guys did. There were at least three guys that had a legitimate opportunity to stop the runner. It's just that they were 6'0" 190lb guys going after a full back with blockers.
Well that's the key, isn't it? For all we know, they may have run these types of simulations in practice. Kubiak was confident that the guys would make the plays. Obviously they did not.

I would have preferred he call a TO, but sometimes you should trust your guys. It would have shown a lot of focus and determination if our players had've made it.
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Old 09-29-2008   #11
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Default Re: Jags fake punt

Anytime a team gives up a big gain, especially a TD on a cutsey, trick-play like this its on the coaching staff. End of story.
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Old 09-29-2008   #12
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Default Re: Jags fake punt

The guys upstairs are supposed to recognize personel and relay to coaches on the field. The moment no punter or kicker ran out, kubes shouldve been notified and proper personel run out. It seems the people kubes is relying on for info is kiling him right now.
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Old 09-29-2008   #13
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Default Re: Jags fake punt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner View Post
From what I can remember and from the contents of this thread, the play sets up as follows. Please correct any details I'm wrong about.

The Jags had two gunners and a fullback taking a direct snap. This left eight regular offensive players on the line to block.

The Texans had one kick returner and four guys on the outside blocking the gunners. Is this correct, or was there only three on the outside? If it was four, that leaves six players on the line for the Texans.

This results in six, maybe seven Texans on the defensive line, many of them special teamers. The Jaguars had eight people blocking them, including their strarting offensive linemen.

Why does Kubiak think they were set up to stuff the play? The Texans were easily outnumbered and 'out-talented' all along the area of attack.
At the start of the play, Montell Owens was in the "tailback" position, hands on knees. Greg Jones was slightly in front of him, in a 3 pt stance in the "fullback" position. Antwuan Molden rushes over to help Reeves with the gunner on the far side (top of screen). Bennett and Faggins are preoccupied with the gunner on the near side. Podlesh (#3), the punter, is actually on the field and lines up kinda flanker style right next to the far side (left) tackle. The Texans had a "front 6".

Another thing that made this work was the quick huddle. Texans (Reeves for one) had to scramble to get on their side of the ball so as not to be caught offsides.

After the snap to Owens, Greg Jones goes lead blocker to the right side, Owens follows. Dominique Barber playing "left DE" (near side) gets spun around, twisted up and stumbles. Owens blows by him. JJ tries a tackle and misses. Faggins tries to strip and gets pushed down by a blocker. Owens was home free after that.
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Old 09-29-2008   #14
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Default Re: Jags fake punt

This video might be the play .

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_i...tab_gamecenter
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Old 09-29-2008   #15
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Default Re: Jags fake punt

Wow...

No one places any blame on Marciano ?

It was his unit out there on the field...meaning he should have been extra attentative...

Why didn't he have his unit more prepared? Why didn't he say anything when he noticed the funky formation?

Special teams haven't been anything special this season.
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Old 09-29-2008   #16
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Default Re: Jags fake punt

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Wow...

No one places any blame on Marciano ?
plenty of us have mentioned the coaches being asleep...you just gotta read it before you straw man it.
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Old 09-29-2008   #17
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Default Re: Jags fake punt

i havent watched it in detail but who ever was the PR and stood in the backfield was a idoit

the lightbulb in his head should have exploded when he seen no punter and the Jags QB on the field !!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-29-2008   #18
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Default Re: Jags fake punt

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plenty of us have mentioned the coaches being asleep...you just gotta read it before you straw man it.
No, No...

Not "coaches"...

I said Marciano...That was his unit on the field...

Poor job by him...
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Old 09-29-2008   #19
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Default Re: Jags fake punt

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i havent watched it in detail but who ever was the PR and stood in the backfield was a idoit

the lightbulb in his head should have exploded when he seen no punter and the Jags QB on the field !!!!!!!!!!!!
But the Jags QB wasn't on the field.
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Old 09-29-2008   #20
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Default Re: Jags fake punt

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Special teams haven't been anything special this season.
i'm thinking other folks have been planning for our ST pretty effectively without any sort of response from our end. infuriating.
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