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Old 12-13-2008   #61
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Default Re: 09 Mock Draft

one month away from knowing who is declaring to come out early for the 09 NFL draft so there could still be drastic cuts/additions but came across this Mock Draft http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/mockdrafts.htm & thought some of my fellow draft friends would start getting excited from a more realistic Mock.

Quote:
- Hardy’s name is not as prevalent as Orakpo, Johnson and Selvie, but you’ll be hearing a lot about him in the upcoming months if he decides to declare. Hardy is a long, athletic DE who can get to the QB with the best of them. Houston desperately needs a counter pass rusher for Mario Williams
I like Hardy alot, but I think if he's the Texans target (DE) another trade down would be in order
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Old 12-13-2008   #62
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Default Re: 09 Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
What makes you think Tebow isn't Vincet Young squared ? Looks like the same guy in a different covering to me....Remeber Troy "Tater tot" Smith and Ginn Jr. ? Easy throwing TDs when your guys are wide open. But doing what most QBs have to do in the NFL....hitting little windows on time and on target.... making reads and going through the progressions....
the load up and hop isn't going to work for little Timmy in the NFL.
What are you talking about? You are essentially just throwing out some random thoughts and none of it is making sense. Troy Smith didn't get much of a look in the NFL because he was simply too small. With Troy Smith, think Chase Daniel or Todd Reesing. That group is great college QBs who just didn't/don't have the measurables. Vince Young had a lot of leadership qualities and great size. He didn't have accuracy that extended past 15 yards and he didn't have very good arm strength. He throw a lot of wobbling balls. Vince Young was also a run first QB, and that running style was a finesse style. Vince avoided defenders on what essentially became stretch plays. That was a gimmick offense that hid all the decencies. Tebow has great arm strength and stays in the pocket well. His runs are mostly on designed run plays because of natural ability, and if you actually pay attention to his career thus far, you will see that his running has gone down. Tebow is developing as a QB and that has been apparent this year.

Tebow actually is pretty far from Vince Young as a prospect aside from size. Tebow runs up the middle when he does run, but he has developed his patience in the pocket. He steps into the throw well and finishes on his front foot. He has shown the ability to make the NFL throws 35 yards down the field. I don't actually think Harvin is that great of a NFL receiver right now due to his poor route running.

Tebow is a legit prospect.
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Old 12-14-2008   #63
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Default Re: 09 Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
one month away from knowing who is declaring to come out early for the 09 NFL draft so there could still be drastic cuts/additions but came across this Mock Draft http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/mockdrafts.htm & thought some of my fellow draft friends would start getting excited from a more realistic Mock.



I like Hardy alot, but I think if he's the Texans target (DE) another trade down would be in order
Hardy has a lot of talent, but I don't know if he's worth the risk in the first round. He has injury and personal issues that raise big questions. I would probably go Raji in that situation. Strange that he isn't listed in the first round btw.

If they trade down to the bottom of the first, as you suggest, I could see it being worth the risk.
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Old 12-14-2008   #64
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Default Re: 09 Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by Goatcheese View Post
Hardy has a lot of talent, but I don't know if he's worth the risk in the first round. He has injury and personal issues that raise big questions. I would probably go Raji in that situation. Strange that he isn't listed in the first round btw.

If they trade down to the bottom of the first, as you suggest, I could see it being worth the risk.
interesting the national perception of Texans #1 need is DE not DT. you & others who understand internal dynamics a bit more feel a run plugger in the middle trumps the DE, either that or feel Raji is better value. I honestly don't know, thats what we're all about to find out over the next four months
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Old 12-14-2008   #65
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Default Re: 09 Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
interesting the national perception of Texans #1 need is DE not DT. you & others who understand internal dynamics a bit more feel a run plugger in the middle trumps the DE, either that or feel Raji is better value. I honestly don't know, thats what we're all about to find out over the next four months
As you know from my December Mock, I took DT first. I liked Raji in that role because I see him as a complete 4-3 DT. He is big enough to be a space eater, atheltic enough to collapse the pocket, and stout enough against the run. I also think he helps Okoye and Mario because if you need to constantly double team him, who will not get single coverage? If you put one man on Mario, he will get pressure. If you do the same to Okoye, he will get pressure. Even if we had a situational pass rusher opposite Mario like Bulman, he would benefit from a Raji type. In my mind, he can improve those positions, plus help our DBs. In my mind the bigger need is DT not DE.
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Old 12-14-2008   #66
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Default Re: 09 Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by YoungTexanFan View Post
Tebow actually is pretty far from Vince Young as a prospect aside from size. Tebow runs up the middle when he does run, but he has developed his patience in the pocket. He steps into the throw well and finishes on his front foot. He has shown the ability to make the NFL throws 35 yards down the field. I don't actually think Harvin is that great of a NFL receiver right now due to his poor route running.

Tebow is a legit prospect.
I read somewhere that somebody described Tebow as a left handed Jason White who can run. How far off would you think this is?
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Old 12-14-2008   #67
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Default Re: 09 Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
interesting the national perception of Texans #1 need is DE not DT. you & others who understand internal dynamics a bit more feel a run plugger in the middle trumps the DE, either that or feel Raji is better value. I honestly don't know, thats what we're all about to find out over the next four months
I would still put DE as the #1 need, but if there isn't value there when you pick, it's better to take another need position instead of reaching/gambling.

My view on the Texans needs: http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...8&postcount=12
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Old 12-14-2008   #68
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Default Re: 09 Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
I read somewhere that somebody described Tebow as a left handed Jason White who can run. How far off would you think this is?
I think that is simply saying he has a loaded team and isn't an actual NFL QB. Also, it's not fair to any QB with legs to compare them to Jason "I just tore my knee for the 5th year in a row" White. I think Jason White and Tim Tebow are really far off as prospects. Tebow needs work on his mechanics, but I don't think they are any worse than VY.
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Old 12-14-2008   #69
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Default Re: 09 Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by awtysst View Post
As you know from my December Mock, I took DT first. I liked Raji in that role because I see him as a complete 4-3 DT. He is big enough to be a space eater, atheltic enough to collapse the pocket, and stout enough against the run. I also think he helps Okoye and Mario because if you need to constantly double team him, who will not get single coverage? If you put one man on Mario, he will get pressure. If you do the same to Okoye, he will get pressure. Even if we had a situational pass rusher opposite Mario like Bulman, he would benefit from a Raji type. In my mind, he can improve those positions, plus help our DBs. In my mind the bigger need is DT not DE.
Deljuan Robinson had a great game today. shows continued progress as PT increases & don't forget about Frank Okam. Texans had zero sacks against the Tacks which may work for now until VY returns then you need to match-up athleitic speed on speed. Hardy is a work in progress but his upside on this roster is tempting given divisional foes.
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Old 12-14-2008   #70
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Default Re: 09 Mock Draft

Someone might have answered this before but i pretty much stay on the tream threads.

Which running backs are in the Zone/ One cut system at their respective colleges?
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Old 12-18-2008   #71
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Default Re: 09 Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by RipTraxx View Post
Someone might have answered this before but i pretty much stay on the tream threads.

Which running backs are in the Zone/ One cut system at their respective colleges?
Might be simpler to say who is not....JMHO:

1. Beaner Wells is not. Power back for a power offense.
2.P.J. Hill IS, Marion Lucky and Bradon Ore are not.
3. Navy Kid is....Jorvorskie Lane is not. Big guys can do it. I disagree with McClain and others on that one.

Derrel Mack Utah Yep. Great size and has prety nice fourth gear for a big back. He can throw his head back and hit another gear.

4. Both Davis' Mike and James
5. Ian Johnson, is....although I'm scared of all the body shots his accumlated over the last three years.
6. Luke Lipincott perfect size. won't run away from anyone but he can hit a seam in a line quickly. Doctor's Son probably go to med school.

Want one on the cheap....Chase Daniels.

http://www.gbnreport.com/2009prospects.html

Again Just MHO.
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Old 12-18-2008   #72
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Default Re: 09 Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by YoungTexanFan View Post
What are you talking about? You are essentially just throwing out some random thoughts and none of it is making sense. Troy Smith didn't get much of a look in the NFL because he was simply too small. With Troy Smith, think Chase Daniel or Todd Reesing. That group is great college QBs who just didn't/don't have the measurables. Vince Young had a lot of leadership qualities and great size. He didn't have accuracy that extended past 15 yards and he didn't have very good arm strength. He throw a lot of wobbling balls. Vince Young was also a run first QB, and that running style was a finesse style. Vince avoided defenders on what essentially became stretch plays. That was a gimmick offense that hid all the decencies. Tebow has great arm strength and stays in the pocket well. His runs are mostly on designed run plays because of natural ability, and if you actually pay attention to his career thus far, you will see that his running has gone down. Tebow is developing as a QB and that has been apparent this year.

I'm tsalking about draft gurus equating hard ware with NFL mechanics and usually thse guys are justr plain dead wrong....Like you were with gaither.

Tebow actually is pretty far from Vince Young as a prospect aside from size. Tebow runs up the middle when he does run, but he has developed his patience in the pocket. He steps into the throw well and finishes on his front foot. He has shown the ability to make the NFL throws 35 yards down the field. I don't actually think Harvin is that great of a NFL receiver right now due to his poor route running.

Tebow is a legit prospect.
I'm talking about draft gurus equating hard ware and stats with NFL mechanics. And usually those guys are just plain dead wrong....Like you were with your estimate of Gaither. Just because the guy has numbers doesnt nessisarly mean his bad mechnics/bad attitute will tansition. Might but it's more than just a simple risk. You're rolling the dice. Tewbow is a running back palying Qb.
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Old 12-18-2008   #73
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Default Re: 09 Mock Draft

College teams use a spread with unlimited variations of zbs. West Virginia plays one of those variations, see Steve Slaton.

another program that translates well to zone is Oregon who really spread it out creating cut-back lanes for their running backs & downfiled linemen blocking assignments. they have a kid who could be this years sleeper, poor mans version of Steve Slaton named Jeremiah Johnson. similar size 5090 210 a little thicker lower body, can break tackles keeps leg drive to finish plays, has exceptional cut-back intincts, sees the lanes, willing blocker. have no idea where his draft grade winds up but I'd guess rounds 3-5.
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Old 12-18-2008   #74
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Default Re: 09 Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
College teams use a spread with unlimited variations of zbs. West Virginia plays one of those variations, see Steve Slaton.

another program that translates well to zone is Oregon who really spread it out creating cut-back lanes for their running backs & downfiled linemen blocking assignments. they have a kid who could be this years sleeper, poor mans version of Steve Slaton named Jeremiah Johnson. similar size 5090 210 a little thicker lower body, can break tackles keeps leg drive to finish plays, has exceptional cut-back intincts, sees the lanes, willing blocker. have no idea where his draft grade winds up but I'd guess rounds 3-5.
I love this kid. Hes really explosive.
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Old 12-18-2008   #75
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Default Re: 09 Mock Draft

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Pretty much what I have been thinking as well. We're thankfully playing our way out of the boom or bust that can be the top ten and more towards the productive impact players. Would not be upset if we chose Laurinaitis. Not sold on Diles and we need a guy who can rev up the intensity on defense. Him or Duke Robinson are my picks.
It will also help get us some publicity. Get guys from super popular schools to bring in some of the fan base.
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Old 12-18-2008   #76
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Default Re: 09 Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
I'm talking about draft gurus equating hard ware and stats with NFL mechanics. And usually those guys are just plain dead wrong....Like you were with your estimate of Gaither. Just because the guy has numbers doesnt nessisarly mean his bad mechnics/bad attitute will tansition. Might but it's more than just a simple risk. You're rolling the dice. Tewbow is a running back palying Qb.
I'm going to address your comment about Gaither. If by "numbers" you mean production against some of the elite pass rushers in college at the time, then yes, he had all the numbers. If you mean the elite physical tools for an OT, then yes, he had the numbers as well. He screwed up off the field, and that couldn't be predicted. He had it made and lost it by his own doing, mostly because of stuff between the ears. As a prospect on the field, he was as good of an OT prospect as we've seen in a while.
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Old 12-18-2008   #77
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Default Re: 09 Mock Draft

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I'm going to address your comment about Gaither. If by "numbers" you mean production against some of the elite pass rushers in college at the time, then yes, he had all the numbers. If you mean the elite physical tools for an OT, then yes, he had the numbers as well. He screwed up off the field, and that couldn't be predicted. He had it made and lost it by his own doing, mostly because of stuff between the ears. As a prospect on the field, he was as good of an OT prospect as we've seen in a while.
Its hard to take a flyer on a guy when so much of the NFL is between the ears.
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Old 12-18-2008   #78
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Default Re: 09 Mock Draft

Okay, depending on our DL/DT situation and what the staff thinks (happy with the player we have, their development- Deljuan, Okam, etc) or a new DC that uses our current DL a little different... let's assume BJ Raji isn't available or isn't the pick. I'm all for BPA and not taking just the next best player at position X. If it's a LB, S, CB, DT, DE, OG, etc... take him. With that said:

1st- FS/SS Taylor Mays- USC
With the addition of Mays, we've found our best safety. He's a big S that will stop the run and has the speed to cut off passes. If Wilson stays in as FS, Mays is our SS with backups of CC and Demps maybe Harrison, etc. In anycase Jacque Reeves needs help over top as do Dunta and Bennett, lord knows faggins does too.

2nd- SLB Clint Sintim- Virginia
Sintim is a good pass rusher that is suited for the 3-4 or is able to play SLB in the 4-3. This leaves us with starting LB's of WLB- Adibi, ProBowl MLB- Demeco and SLB- Sintim. Opposing offenses will have to account for possible blitzes from him, demeco, or dunta while the DL is coming at them too. This leaves Greenwood (if he's here) as a backup to Adibi, Bentley and Diles (rehabbing) backing up SLB and MLB.

3rd- C/OG Antoine Caldwell- Alabama or Max Unger- Oregon
A highly rated Center/Guard would be an excellent addition to the team. The enterior of our OL sure could use some help.
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Old 12-18-2008   #79
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Default Re: 09 Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by BigBull17 View Post
Its hard to take a flyer on a guy when so much of the NFL is between the ears.
I had been following him since he first stepped onto the field. His problems came the year he was drafted. He was an elite prospect when I was hyping him on this board. I will stand by that as I doubt you have any idea what is being referenced here.
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Old 12-18-2008   #80
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Default Re: 09 Mock Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungTexanFan View Post
I had been following him since he first stepped onto the field. His problems came the year he was drafted. He was an elite prospect when I was hyping him on this board. I will stand by that as I doubt you have any idea what is being referenced here.
I'm just making a blanket statement about any guy with issues between the ears. It is hard to put the time, money, and draft pick if you aren't sure of his frame of mind or what will he do off and on the field. Who specifically are you talking about?
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