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Old 09-25-2008   #41
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Originally Posted by brickman View Post
The problem is that the standard has been set so low that people figure 8-8 is a good season. It's better than it was, but by now it should be better than it is. Here is what it comes down to ....... this is not a good football team. It's like we had a huge water leak that has been partially stopped, but water is still flowing in and we are trying to stay afloat instead of fixing the leak completely and striving for the top.
Bad personnel moves...bad cap situations...bad draft class the first two years... all of this has added to the leaky Dyke. They've taken a wrecking ball to this roster. I don't know what else people expect them to do. "Just win Baby" works when you have some talent. When you don't it's "just survive until the next off season Baby". Next year Kubiak will be into the fourth year of a five year contract with an option for a sixth year. That's when Mr McNair will pay him off if there isn't significant progress. People deserve their rants now...but it's really pretty pointless.
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Old 09-25-2008   #42
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Originally Posted by brickman View Post
The problem is that the standard has been set so low that people figure 8-8 is a good season. It's better than it was, but by now it should be better than it is. Here is what it comes down to ....... this is not a good football team. It's like we had a huge water leak that has been partially stopped, but water is still flowing in and we are trying to stay afloat instead of fixing the leak completely and striving for the top.


Couldn't have said it better.


This line right here completely says it all.

The problem is that the standard has been set so low that people figure 8-8 is a good season
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Old 09-25-2008   #43
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

As are most of your posts, that is just plain B.S.! No one, especially Kubiak is satisfied with 8-8. However, to give you your due devil, it seems that we try to add veterans, who cost a bundle, to help bring the team up to snuff, only to see them under achieve. i don't get it, but it better be fixed, and soon.
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Old 09-25-2008   #44
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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As are most of your posts, that is just plain B.S.! No one, especially Kubiak is satisfied with 8-8. However, to give you your due devil, it seems that we try to add veterans, who cost a bundle, to help bring the team up to snuff, only to see them under achieve. i don't get it, but it better be fixed, and soon.
I don't know if that was supposed to be to me or that other poster, but I'm trying hard to figure out what your logic is here.

You're saying that we try to add these high priced veterans to help out the team but they all under achieve. Well, genius who do you put that on???
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Old 09-25-2008   #45
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
You're saying that we try to add these high priced veterans to help out the team but they all under achieve. Well, genius who do you put that on???
You know, FA acquisitions are always hit and miss. The top 4 FA WR's this past off-season who had contracts totaling close to $200 mil have a total of 8 receptions so far. I wouldn't assume all of those GM's were bad because they weren't psychic.
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Old 09-25-2008   #46
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by brickman View Post
The problem is that the standard has been set so low that people figure 8-8 is a good season. It's better than it was, but by now it should be better than it is. Here is what it comes down to ....... this is not a good football team. It's like we had a huge water leak that has been partially stopped, but water is still flowing in and we are trying to stay afloat instead of fixing the leak completely and striving for the top.
I don't think people advocate that 8-8 is a "good season". It's just the best that this franchise has had in six seasons. Big difference in perspectives. I think most folks would agree that 8-8 is mediocre, at best.
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Old 09-25-2008   #47
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
You know, FA acquisitions are always hit and miss. The top 4 FA WR's this past off-season who had contracts totaling close to $200 mil have a total of 8 receptions so far. I wouldn't assume all of those GM's were bad because they weren't psychic.
I saw a list of those guys that you're referring to, and yeah all those GM's screwed up because none of those guys were worth near what they paid. I can't remember every one of them off that list, but lets see....

Bernard Berrian-All he ever was in Chicago was a deep threat and that was it. He wasn't consistent either. Minnesota needed WR's bad, but they gave him way to much money. I had no idea why he was ever a HOT NAME around the circuit.

Javon Walker- This guy was coming off of like two knee operations and hadn't had a great season since he was with the Packers. And look who the guy was to give him all of that money? Al stinkin Davis. When was the last time he did anything right? He's a total mess.

I can't remember the other two at the moment, but I saw that list like yesterday or the day before and each guy was over hyped and shouldn't have gotten near what they got in the first place. I don't think every FA is hit or miss. I think it all depends on the timing in which you bring them in to your team, how healthy they are, and how they fit in your scheme. Some that seem great just don't work out though like you say. I think that Rosevelt Colven would be a good example of that. I won't ever fault the Texans for bringing him in. He seemed like a guy that could really help us, but he just wasn't the same player he was last year after his injury.
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Old 09-25-2008   #48
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
I don't think people advocate that 8-8 is a "good season". It's just the best that this franchise has had in six seasons. Big difference in perspectives. I think most folks would agree that 8-8 is mediocre, at best.
I'd go so far as to say 8-8 is the definition of mediocre. It is perfect mediocrity!
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Old 09-25-2008   #49
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

You mean 7-9 isn't mediocre?
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Old 09-25-2008   #50
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Originally Posted by Runner View Post
I think the Munchak coaching was great for him at TN. That is a tough line-up to crack though. He's now with the Raiders; who knows how they operate.
Thanks for the update about Wand. I didn't even know whether or not he was still in the league ? But I'm glad he's still drawing a paycheck to support himself and family and build up a descent savings for his later years. As I recall he was a pretty tight-fisted young man with his money.
As we know Wand was athletically gifted but came from a very small school background and knew nothing of technique because of that background. So he'd be the type who might yet be a late-bloomer.
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Old 09-25-2008   #51
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

I know that "If things happened in sports like they did in the real world..." examples are usually a bunch of crap, and this one may be too, but consider this.

You've been hired to turnaround a dept. of a major company that has suffered from it's creation with inept management. There are former employees that have been terminated due to cause, but because of legal reasons, they are still on the payroll. While you pretty much have full hiring and firing authority, you are on a budget, and those terminated folks still count against it. As time goes on, those terminated employees will begin dropping off the books, but you'll need to manage with both an eye towards bringing in top-notch folks, and not recreating the budget hell the previous management had gotten themselves into. Oh yeah - hiring in your field is incredibly competitive, between you and the other departments within your company virtually all of the folks quailified to work in your field already work for your company. You add college graduates to the workforce every year, but those folks are spread around the company evenly, and all departments will receive a relatively equal share of those folks. While folks in the other departments do periodically transfer within the company, your predecessors left your department with a reputation that will make it...let's just say challenging... to attract the best and the brightest. You do have excellent facilities, and your department is considered pretty employee friendly.

Your performance is pretty much based 100% on annual productivity as compared to the other depts in your company. As you can imagine, things are in a pretty sorry shape when you start, so the good news is the bar is pretty low. You've also been told you should focus on long-term productivity, not just a quick turnaround that will only result in temporary/unsustainable improvement. The first year, you pick the low-hanging fruit and triple productivity. While you've improved productivity by 200%, you are still in the bottom 30% on a company-wide basis. A clear cut improvement, but still a ways to go for that promotion. In year 2, you see a productivity jump of 33% from the previous year. While this isn't nearly the percentage increase of year one, only 40% (approximately) of the other departments have better productivity than you. You're still not where you want to be, but you feel good about the direction and progress of the first two years.

Year 3 rolls around, and while you are struggling to identify and correct the reason, productivity is down in a major way the first month and a half of the year. Through mid-February, everything that was a problem in the past still seems to be a problem, and some things that weren't problems before now are. For reasons your working to identify and fix, things seem to have reverted back to where they were before you got there. You recognize that there's still 10.5 months left in the year, and while you've made it tougher on yourself, you still have enough time to continue the upward movement you've started. There is some reason to believe that the first month and a half are far tougher months to produce in than most. Before you have a chance to finish February (much less the first quarter of the year), your boss calls you into his office, tells you that while your performance in the first two years were solid and encouraging, your 1+ month performance has convinced him that you're the problem, and in spite of the first two years performance, he's convinced that you are incapable of even re-creating the productivity you achieved in year two, much less improving on it.

How do you feel?
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Old 09-25-2008   #52
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

8-8 is great, but that doesn't make Kubiak the great coach that everyone and McNair think he is.

Let we forget we were 7-9 with a bad line, no runningback and a quarterback that had gotten sacked the most of any quarterback in history. That was with capers, we should have been 8-8 but gave a the last game away to cleveland.

So are we better than we were then? Maybe in some aspects but overall? Thats a huge NO!
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Old 09-25-2008   #53
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Originally Posted by HJam72 View Post
You mean 7-9 isn't mediocre?
7-9, 9-7: average mediocrity.

We should have a discussion on standard deviations and bell curves and such.
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Old 09-25-2008   #54
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

Just a general observation, but I believe we are younger now than then and still have a lot of room to improve. That 7-9 team was anchored by guys like Sharper, Foreman, and McKinney, who didn't have much time left. This team has FAR more potential.
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Old 09-25-2008   #55
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Originally Posted by Yomaine View Post
8-8 is great, but that doesn't make Kubiak the great coach that everyone and McNair think he is.

Let we forget we were 7-9 with a bad line, no runningback and a quarterback that had gotten sacked the most of any quarterback in history. That was with capers, we should have been 8-8 but gave a the last game away to cleveland.

So are we better than we were then? Maybe in some aspects but overall? Thats a huge NO!
First we had a RB at that point--without DD that team would have done squat.

I think people are upset with the results and not seeing the differences. My bet is this team could play that team and go 13-3. Doesn't mean our record will be better, but the division is a whole lot better now as a whole as well.
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Old 09-25-2008   #56
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Originally Posted by BattleRedToro View Post
I have to agree with you about the lack of swagger.

The question that follows is who would you like to see as the Head Coach then?

Marty Schottenheimer?
Steve Spagnolo
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Old 09-25-2008   #57
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
I know that "If things happened in sports like they did in the real world..." examples are usually a bunch of crap, and this one may be too, but consider this.

You've been hired to turnaround a dept. of a major company that has suffered from it's creation with inept management. There are former employees that have been terminated due to cause, but because of legal reasons, they are still on the payroll. While you pretty much have full hiring and firing authority, you are on a budget, and those terminated folks still count against it. As time goes on, those terminated employees will begin dropping off the books, but you'll need to manage with both an eye towards bringing in top-notch folks, and not recreating the budget hell the previous management had gotten themselves into. Oh yeah - hiring in your field is incredibly competitive, between you and the other departments within your company virtually all of the folks quailified to work in your field already work for your company. You add college graduates to the workforce every year, but those folks are spread around the company evenly, and all departments will receive a relatively equal share of those folks. While folks in the other departments do periodically transfer within the company, your predecessors left your department with a reputation that will make it...let's just say challenging... to attract the best and the brightest. You do have excellent facilities, and your department is considered pretty employee friendly.

Your performance is pretty much based 100% on annual productivity as compared to the other depts in your company. As you can imagine, things are in a pretty sorry shape when you start, so the good news is the bar is pretty low. You've also been told you should focus on long-term productivity, not just a quick turnaround that will only result in temporary/unsustainable improvement. The first year, you pick the low-hanging fruit and triple productivity. While you've improved productivity by 200%, you are still in the bottom 30% on a company-wide basis. A clear cut improvement, but still a ways to go for that promotion. In year 2, you see a productivity jump of 33% from the previous year. While this isn't nearly the percentage increase of year one, only 40% (approximately) of the other departments have better productivity than you. You're still not where you want to be, but you feel good about the direction and progress of the first two years.

Year 3 rolls around, and while you are struggling to identify and correct the reason, productivity is down in a major way the first month and a half of the year. Through mid-February, everything that was a problem in the past still seems to be a problem, and some things that weren't problems before now are. For reasons your working to identify and fix, things seem to have reverted back to where they were before you got there. You recognize that there's still 10.5 months left in the year, and while you've made it tougher on yourself, you still have enough time to continue the upward movement you've started. There is some reason to believe that the first month and a half are far tougher months to produce in than most. Before you have a chance to finish February (much less the first quarter of the year), your boss calls you into his office, tells you that while your performance in the first two years were solid and encouraging, your 1+ month performance has convinced him that you're the problem, and in spite of the first two years performance, he's convinced that you are incapable of even re-creating the productivity you achieved in year two, much less improving on it.

How do you feel?
I hear you. Imagine you are the boss. You had the previous management team go through a period of continued improvement followed by a period of regression. Now, you see your new management team appearing to fall into the same pattern, and you feel the need to call them into your office for a chat now rather than waiting for the annual review.

There is a difference between saying Kubiak is the problem and firing Kubiak. Advocating firing Kubiak now is ignorant and insane. However, expressing to Kubiak that he is the man and he needs to identify the problem and resolve it, well, it seems fair and smart.

The similar trend that I see is in the comments about execution. When it becomes a matter of players not executing, it's because the coach is not lighting a fire under their asses and holding them accountable to the point that they have a healthy fear of ****ing up.

Of course, Kubiak can always respond with the belief that there is no problem, and then we would have a difference of opinion which would have to be resolved at the end of the season or perhaps midseason.

The problem that I see is not an 0-2 start to the season. It is playing badly. It is poor tackling. It is poor decision making by the quarterback. It is horrible results in the red zone. It is a culture of excuses. Saying, "it's no excuse, but..." is still an excuse. Many fans on this messageboard argue that we should have had no expectation of winning the last two games. We need to have an expectation of winning every game.

When we lose a game, the response should be, "they played better than us today." It should never be, "we were never going to win that game anyway". We need to ask ourselves why, specifically, did they beat us? Once we identify the reasons, we need to be serious about fixing them as if our lives depend on it. This means that we can't say, "we don't have the talent" or any other response that does not foster an immediate solution because in those cases, we are doomed. Believe in now!

Last edited by jdog; 09-25-2008 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 09-25-2008   #58
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Originally Posted by jdog View Post
I hear you. Imagine you are the boss. You had the previous management team go through a period of continued improvement followed by a period of regression. Now, you see your new management team appearing to fall into the same pattern, and you feel the need to call them into your office for a chat now rather than waiting for the annual review.

There is a difference between saying Kubiak is the problem and firing Kubiak. Advocating firing Kubiak now is ignorant and insane. However, expressing to Kubiak that he is the man and he needs to identify the problem and resolve it, well, it seems fair and smart.

The similar trend that I see is in the comments about execution. When it becomes a matter of players not executing, it's because the coach is not lighting a fire under their asses and holding them accountable to the point that they have a healthy fear of ****ing up.

Of course, Kubiak can always respond with the belief that there is no problem, and then we would have a difference of opinion which would have to be resolved at the end of the season or perhaps midseason.

The problem that I see is not an 0-2 start to the season. It is playing badly. It is poor tackling. It is poor decision making by the quarterback. It is horrible results in the red zone. It is a culture of excuses. Saying, "it's no excuse, but..." is still an excuse. Many fans on this messageboard argue that we should have had no expectation of winning the last two games. We need to have an expectation of winning every game.

When we lose a game, the response should be, "they played better than us today." It should never be, "we were never going to win that game anyway". We need to ask ourselves why, specifically, did they beat us? Once we identify the reasons, we need to be serious about fixing them as if our lives depend on it. This means that we can't say, "we don't have the talent" or any other response that does not foster an immediate solution because in those cases, we are doomed. Believe in now!
I think we're pretty much on the same page here, and I'm not trying to defend Kubiak's or the teams performance in the first two games - in fact, the Titans game was probably one of the worst coached games I've ever seen, but I know professionally, I've had a few days like that myself. It doesn't change the body of work with one fell swoop.

In your words, "Advocating firing Kubiak now is ignorant and insane", and that in a nutshell was what I was saying. It was specifically in response to the original post in this thread. What we've seen in the first two games won't keep Kubiak his job past this year if it continues. But two games - however bad - don't cause you to forget what's been done over the previous two years.
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Old 09-25-2008   #59
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
I think we're pretty much on the same page here, and I'm not trying to defend Kubiak's or the teams performance in the first two games - in fact, the Titans game was probably one of the worst coached games I've ever seen, but I know professionally, I've had a few days like that myself. It doesn't change the body of work with one fell swoop.

In your words, "Advocating firing Kubiak now is ignorant and insane", and that in a nutshell was what I was saying. It was specifically in response to the original post in this thread. What we've seen in the first two games won't keep Kubiak his job past this year if it continues. But two games - however bad - don't cause you to forget what's been done over the previous two years.
I agree. I think Kubiak is on his way toward being a great head coach. In the last two years, I can't think of too many things that I don't like about the job he's done. The problem he faces seems to be specific to our team as an expansion team, and at this point, maybe it is simply a matter of our team being a losing team historically.

The challenge for Kubiak is overcoming our culture of living with losing, and this is why I think the head coach must be considered the problem. Changing the culture and raising expectations starts at the top and must be based on consistent, passionate, and demanding leadership.
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Old 09-25-2008   #60
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

hope for the best and maybe the team can pull themselves together. if they don't, there will be plenty of time to criticize the team and leadership. I guess my point is that I don't want Cowher to be our coach in 2009 because that would mean that we had a horrible year and I am still holding out hope that wont be the case, but if we do indeed have a indisputably horrible year (4 or fewer wins), I want Cowher as HC in 2009. Does that make sense?

thoughts and prayers to those who were affected and/or still affected by Hurricane Ike.
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