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Old 09-25-2008   #21
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Originally Posted by HJam72 View Post
2-14 to 8-8 in two years.
7-9 to 8-8 in three years.

The majority of the problem going from 7-9 to 2-14 was coaching and coaching/front office politics. Joe Pendry and Victor Riley anyone?

There was some decent young talent on the team when Kubiak took over. It is likely that some of those could have developed into competent veterans by now. Instead, roster spots were used for the Flanagans, Salaams, and Greens of the league. To Kubiak's credit, they may have been the best way to improve for a couple of years. Now that those players aren't contributing though, the Texans have to fall back to much less experienced players.

Some of these young players that are playing now are at the same level of development as those that were cut when Kubiak came over. Had they kept some of them, they'd be middling vets right now and the Texans wouldn't have this constant gelling problem. However, as has become usual with the Texans, when a vet is done contributing the replacement is very raw.

Kubiak had to cut deep to clean up the team and implement his systems. However, in some cases he cut too deep.
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Old 09-25-2008   #22
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Kubiak had to cut deep to clean up the team and implement his systems. However, in some cases he cut too deep.
I agree...
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Old 09-25-2008   #23
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Originally Posted by Runner View Post
Kubiak had to cut deep to clean up the team and implement his systems. However, in some cases he cut too deep.
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Originally Posted by Polo View Post
I agree...
Specific examples?
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Old 09-25-2008   #24
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
Straight up. 8-8 in his second season, our best record thus far, with lots of injuries to our best players...well, we have to have faith.

Yeah, I vent and rave in the first 48 hours after losing to the Titans, but that is a normal expression of disappointment born from passion for the team. It's the friggin' Titans for crying out loud!



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I think that too with what happened last year with all the injuries and stuff, this season so far, with us being healthy ,to an extent, and with what we put on the field, I seem to fall into the talent of players has surpassed the talent of coaching ..now i am not saying we have talent to go to the superbowl, I am just looking at the way the team played with all the injuries and with what we are doing now and with all the talent that is not injured now
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Old 09-25-2008   #25
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

I guess I haven't made myself clear on the fire Kubiak subject on any threads.

I DON'T think he should be fired.

However, I think his performance should be evaluated on more than an 'in Kubes we trust' basis. If the team has a poor record this year (6 wins or so), he should be on the hot seat next year. I think some of his staff should be considered on the hot seat now and be terminated this off-season if their units don't shape up.

No more excuses.
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Old 09-25-2008   #26
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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If the team has a poor record this year (6 wins or so), he should be on the hot seat next year. I think some of his staff should be considered on the hot seat now and be terminated this off-season if their units don't shape up.

No more excuses.
That pretty much sums it up. The only reason I am interested in a possible mid-season swap at DC is we have an in-house guy to take over, that was reportedly favored by Kubiak to begin with. Heck we have Ray Rhodes as well.
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Old 09-25-2008   #27
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Originally Posted by Runner View Post
I guess I haven't made myself clear on the fire Kubiak subject on any threads.

I DON'T think he should be fired.

However, I think his performance should be evaluated on more than an 'in Kubes we trust' basis. If the team has a poor record this year (6 wins or so), he should be on the hot seat next year. I think some of his staff should be considered on the hot seat now and be terminated this off-season if their units don't shape up.

No more excuses.
No way should Kubes be fired in the middle of the season. If the Texans only win 6 games though, he has to go. That is taking two steps back after taking one forward. That wouldn't even be staying a float. All we would be doing is pro longing another year after this of mediocraty if we kept a coach that is in his 3rd season and only won 6 games. You don't keep a guy around when the team regresses like that.
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Old 09-25-2008   #28
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Specific examples?
I don't see any reason Babin is not here.

Guess that's my only one...
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Old 09-25-2008   #29
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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I don't see any reason Babin is not here.

Guess that's my only one...
Babin was not a good player. He was also way over paid for what he was doing on the field. He was never an impact type of player at all. I was very happy to get rid of him and his salary.
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Old 09-25-2008   #30
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Specific examples?
I'm sure you can figure out one of my examples...

This may not have a direct cause and effect relationship, but Moulds/Gaffney.

Salaam/Wand. This was exacerbated when they didn't bring back Wand the day Spencer got hurt. They did pick up Jordan Black the next off-season though.

These are two players still in the league. Who knows how other cuts could have fared with some development. It's a crapshoot, and like I said, he did have to cut deep.
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Old 09-25-2008   #31
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

I have been watching these threads and near as I can figure there are a bunch of folks on here that suffer from PE of the keyboard.
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Old 09-25-2008   #32
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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I'm sure you can figure out one of my examples...

This may not have a direct cause and effect relationship, but Moulds/Gaffney.

Salaam/Wand. This was exacerbated when they didn't bring back Wand the day Spencer got hurt. They did pick up Jordan Black the next off-season though.

These are two players still in the league. Who knows how other cuts could have fared with some development. It's a crapshoot, and like I said, he did have to cut deep.

I forgot about Gaffney...
Wand as well...
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Old 09-25-2008   #33
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Originally Posted by Polo View Post
I forgot about Gaffney...
Wand as well...
Gaffney looked OK with Tom Brady in NE. Thats hardly a mark on how good he would be for us. MVP, or Carr/Schuab? Hmm, maybe the QB helpped a little...? And Wand was a stiff.

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Why do I keep seeing people say over and over that we were beaten by 2 top tier teams. The only time the Steelers looked good out of the 3 games they have played so far was against us. The Titans always play good defense and they seem to have the Texans number. They are 3-0 but I think Indy will reclaim the division eventually before the season is done.

Can you imagine if the Texans had to play the NFC east this year? Work would be unbearable with the number of Cryboy fans I have to work with on a daily basis.

This upcoming game in Jacksonville will be the game that makes or breaks the Texans this year. It is that critical. Lose and you come home to face Indy with the team in turmoil and fans upset and most likely start 0-4. Win and come home with some confidence to face Indy without Bob Sanders. Slaton left, Slaton right, Slaton up the middle. Dre deep.
Not so fast, Dre's gotta catch em first.
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Old 09-25-2008   #34
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

I am not sure how anyone here could have figured out that Gaffney was any good. Most of us blasted his route running and his hands. Most said good riddance when he left. The Moulds trade and subsequent new deal he got was a mistake, but that is hind sight.

I will give you Wand, mainly cause of the injury and then bringing in that waste of space Black.
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Old 09-25-2008   #35
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Gaffney looked OK with Tom Brady in NE. Thats hardly a mark on how good he would be for us. MVP, or Carr/Schuab? Hmm, maybe the QB helpped a little...? And Wand was a stiff.
Doesn't matter whether or not Brady helped him be more successful. Gaffney was still a vital part of that mix.

Pats had and still do have a lot of talented recievers. It wasn't like he was competing for a roster spot against scrubs.

And I don't know if Wand was any worse than Jordan Black.
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Old 09-25-2008   #36
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

Gaffney?? Sorry, but that just won't fly. He was never consistent. I remember Carr hitting him in stride when he wasn't even looking up for the ball. He needed to go. He didn't work hard over here, nor was he ever any stand out by any means. Had he still been here, he'd still be doing nothing.

Brady has made a ton of average WR's look a lot better than what they are. Plus, he was the 4th WR on their depth chart that was lucky to have the D's of other teams double up on Moss and look for Welker and Stallworth. That top NE offense made Gaffney look good. He didn't make the offense look any better. He just benefited from other WR's having to be watched like crazy.
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Old 09-25-2008   #37
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Originally Posted by Polo View Post
I don't see any reason Babin is not here.
Babin still seems to me best suited for what he was brought in for, a 3-4 OLB.

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This may not have a direct cause and effect relationship, but Moulds/Gaffney.
I questioned getting rid of Gaffney, but would put the trade-off as Gaffney/Walter. We may have given up a viable player, but I don't see where we lost on the transaction. Moulds ended up a mistake.

Quote:
Salaam/Wand. This was exacerbated when they didn't bring back Wand the day Spencer got hurt.

These are two players still in the league. Who knows how other cuts could have fared with some development.
Wand is a tough one. I thought Pendry was wrong to bench him. Development wise though, he worked with a good OL coach in TN and now after three years on two teams hasn't started a game. I can see why Kubiak wanted a vet swing tackle like Salaam. Hard to say Wand would have fared better than Salaam. Now I would have brought Wand in instead of Black.
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Old 09-25-2008   #38
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Wand is a tough one. I thought Pendry was wrong to bench him. Development wise though, he worked with a good OL coach in TN and now after three years on two teams hasn't started a game. I can see why Kubiak wanted a vet swing tackle like Salaam. Hard to say Wand would have fared better than Salaam. Now I would have brought Wand in instead of Black.
My point is that if Wand was even just the same as Salaam, he probably would have improved and he"d be in the prime of his career now. A middling prime could take some heat off of the rookie or allowed other holes to be filled. Remember, the coaches cut Wand the day after everyone else and in person rather than over the phone. They agonized over that the decision - it was close between him and Spencer.

After the Spencer injury they could have had Salaam and Wand. However they picked up someone else. I think it was Brad Bedell. This was a Former Green Bay vet past his prime who was supposed to provide depth at two positons. I can rephrase the example as Bedell/Wand. I'd have stuck with a left tackle project one more year over him.

I think the Munchak coaching was great for him at TN. That is a tough line-up to crack though. He's now with the Raiders; who knows how they operate.

I've heard situations like Wand's compared to being in a double elimination tournament. For the non-elite player, that first loss (cut) makes it hard to win. In the end, he's been in the league six years where a career average is closer to two. He offers depth if nothing else, and depth has always been in short supply for the Texans.
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Old 09-25-2008   #39
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
That pretty much sums it up. The only reason I am interested in a possible mid-season swap at DC is we have an in-house guy to take over, that was reportedly favored by Kubiak to begin with. Heck we have Ray Rhodes as well.
Agreed: whether it's Kubiak now or whomever down the road, eventually you have to dig in with one of these guys and let them finish a rebuild. If the roster had been better at the start you might have a point. Not you Cak, the whiners.

But the talent level was what it was when they got here. The only problem I see is people misjudging the talent on hand when they arrived. I'd be surprised if Ray Rhodes ups the anti with his heart condition. I don't think Bob McNair would allow it.
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Old 09-25-2008   #40
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Default Re: Kubes is the problem

The problem is that the standard has been set so low that people figure 8-8 is a good season. It's better than it was, but by now it should be better than it is. Here is what it comes down to ....... this is not a good football team. It's like we had a huge water leak that has been partially stopped, but water is still flowing in and we are trying to stay afloat instead of fixing the leak completely and striving for the top.
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