Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-22-2008   #41
GP 
Go Texans!
 
GP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: TEXAS!
Posts: 17,747
Rep Power: 50777 GP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Me personally, I am not afraid to try another QB. And I don't think Kubiak is doing squat due to marketing reasons. I really believe that as a QB he knows that all QBs have ups and downs especially when other parts of the offense are stinking too.

I didn't buy this whole Texans in the playoffs bit, or the whole Richard Justice, "finally this is a team that doesn't have any glaring weaknesses." If you still are working out the details of your line play and playing musical chairs at running back and your #1 WR/your best playmaker is coming off of surgery and a separate injury, you have a bunch of issues that you are going to have to work out.

And I saw this schedule coming out with all these fat defensive lines on the road and the Texans mostly reconstructed offense ZBS line and pretty much knew that the start of this season could be ugly. In combination with the Texans being an awful road team. And that by the time October rolled around, they would be lucky for fans not to be totally disgusted.

This is an offense that has looked better with worse running back play. Either Schaub is going to get his head on straight, or Kubiak will replace him. But I think Kubiak is going to make sure that he gives Schaub a better chance to succeed because he has seen better play from him.

This is a team that has needed some breaks. And have received few.
Schedule was definitely a bad break. I agree on that one.

But how many times does Sage have to come in, get the job done, and then get knocked because of all these weird factors and stats that somehow show Schaub is "better" in one way or another?

Look at the wins and losses. Look at the team as a whole. Has it looked better under Schaub? I say "No."

Neither of these guys are world beaters.

We're in need of a QB who fits the bill. But right now, I'd rather see Sage in there than Schaub. I felt that way last season when it was fake-announced that Schaub might be able to play the last few games, and these two games are not really encouraging for those who think Schaub has "it" but just needs time to collect himself and get steady again.

I don't think he's hurt. I just think he's slow. He talks slow, he looks slow, and his footwork and drop are tremendously slow. The rushers have such a great chance of reaching him no matter how well our oline is blocking.

This is a nightmare, ladies and gents.
__________________
GP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008   #42
Texan_Bill 
Subscribed Contributor
 
Texan_Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Houston. Mediocrity Lives Here!!
Section: Bull Pen!!
Age: 47
Posts: 48,473
Rep Power: 140889 Texan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Me personally, I am not afraid to try another QB. And I don't think Kubiak is doing squat due to marketing reasons. I really believe that as a QB he knows that all QBs have ups and downs especially when other parts of the offense are stinking too.

I didn't buy this whole Texans in the playoffs bit, or the whole Richard Justice, "finally this is a team that doesn't have any glaring weaknesses." If you still are working out the details of your line play and playing musical chairs at running back and your #1 WR/your best playmaker is coming off of surgery and a separate injury, you have a bunch of issues that you are going to have to work out.

And I saw this schedule coming out with all these fat defensive lines on the road and the Texans mostly reconstructed offense ZBS line and pretty much knew that the start of this season could be ugly. In combination with the Texans being an awful road team. And that by the time October rolled around, they would be lucky for fans not to be totally disgusted.

This is an offense that has looked better with worse running back play. Either Schaub is going to get his head on straight, or Kubiak will replace him. But I think Kubiak is going to make sure that he gives Schaub a better chance to succeed because he has seen better play from him.

This is a team that has needed some breaks. And have received few.
Shhhhh.. Carefull with the Dickie reference. He may think you're stalking him... Other than I agree - 100%.
__________________
We SUCK AGAIN!
Texan_Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008   #43
bigfan77801
Plebian
 
bigfan77801's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 394
Rep Power: 376 bigfan77801 is a quality contributor and well respectedbigfan77801 is a quality contributor and well respectedbigfan77801 is a quality contributor and well respectedbigfan77801 is a quality contributor and well respectedbigfan77801 is a quality contributor and well respectedbigfan77801 is a quality contributor and well respectedbigfan77801 is a quality contributor and well respectedbigfan77801 is a quality contributor and well respectedbigfan77801 is a quality contributor and well respectedbigfan77801 is a quality contributor and well respectedbigfan77801 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

I say give Schaub the 1st half of the Jags game, if he stinks yank him, if i doesn't let him play
__________________
Right is right, even if everyone is against it and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it--William Penn.
bigfan77801 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008   #44
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
 
Texans_Chick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,262
Rep Power: 78323 Texans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GP View Post
Schedule was definitely a bad break. I agree on that one.

But how many times does Sage have to come in, get the job done, and then get knocked because of all these weird factors and stats that somehow show Schaub is "better" in one way or another?

Look at the wins and losses. Look at the team as a whole. Has it looked better under Schaub? I say "No."

Neither of these guys are world beaters.

We're in need of a QB who fits the bill. But right now, I'd rather see Sage in there than Schaub. I felt that way last season when it was fake-announced that Schaub might be able to play the last few games, and these two games are not really encouraging for those who think Schaub has "it" but just needs time to collect himself and get steady again.

I don't think he's hurt. I just think he's slow. He talks slow, he looks slow, and his footwork and drop are tremendously slow. The rushers have such a great chance of reaching him no matter how well our oline is blocking.

This is a nightmare, ladies and gents.
The nightmare is that both of the QB's are not It.

Sage did not look good on the road against the Colts at the end of the season. On the road. With Andre Johnson in the lineup. Just saying.

The Texans are a bad road team, no matter who is the quarterback, until they prove differently.
__________________
More? Please check out Ultimate Texans Chronicle Blog & Steph Stradley Blog & Twitter @StephStradley
Texans_Chick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008   #45
Double Barrel
Modified Simian
 
Double Barrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Onward, Upward, and back into the Trees
Section: Gridiron, Tx
Age: 48
Posts: 31,741
Rep Power: 398918 Double Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
The nightmare is that both of the QB's are not It.
That, and the fact that so much was given to obtain the starting QB. Losing two 2nd round picks hurts a team that has so many holes, especially given the fact that Rick Smith probably would've drafted starters with those two picks.
__________________
"Football is only a diversion." ~ HOUSTON TEXANS
Double Barrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008   #46
Speedy
Yeller Dweller
 
Speedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The Livable Forest
Section: 547 - Row A - Dark Side
Posts: 3,251
Rep Power: 81427 Speedy is a quality contributor and well respectedSpeedy is a quality contributor and well respectedSpeedy is a quality contributor and well respectedSpeedy is a quality contributor and well respectedSpeedy is a quality contributor and well respectedSpeedy is a quality contributor and well respectedSpeedy is a quality contributor and well respectedSpeedy is a quality contributor and well respectedSpeedy is a quality contributor and well respectedSpeedy is a quality contributor and well respectedSpeedy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

Last time I checked Sage could get his 3 INT game on too. Twice last season, and only 3 games did he throw more TD's than INT's.

I think it's a little too early to say the Schaub deal was a bust, and it may very well be, but Sage Rosenfels isn't the answer either.

Yesterday, everybody not named Steve Slaton had a bad game, including the coaches. If AJ catches the damn ball then Schaub looks that much better.

The QB position played a roll in the loss yesterday no doubt, but if a few others didn't have a crap game as well, they very much could have gotten out of there with a W.
__________________

thatsbulltailgaters.net
Speedy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008   #47
GP 
Go Texans!
 
GP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: TEXAS!
Posts: 17,747
Rep Power: 50777 GP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfan77801 View Post
I say give Schaub the 1st half of the Jags game, if he stinks yank him, if i doesn't let him play
So Sage has a 21-3 deficit to overcome?

That's becoming a familiar sight. And not very fair to a guy who was 4-1 as a starter last season.

Matt Schaub is the reason Sage Rosenfels did not DEMAND a trade after last season. I think he knew he'd have another shot at it. Interceptions be damned, Sage seems to be grooving in Kubiak's offense well enough to give us a better shot at wins than Schaub has. But, Sage is a journeyman QB who has had his shot and failed...oh, like Kerry Collins who managed OK on Sunday vs. us.

And again: Neither guy is a guy who has that "it" factor that suddenly springs a team to a 10-6 record out of nowhere...but one guy is definitely not getting it done right now, and a change is needed. I don't know why Kubiak doesn't just sit Matt down and tell him he needs to take a breather.
__________________
GP is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 09-22-2008   #48
bigfan77801
Plebian
 
bigfan77801's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 394
Rep Power: 376 bigfan77801 is a quality contributor and well respectedbigfan77801 is a quality contributor and well respectedbigfan77801 is a quality contributor and well respectedbigfan77801 is a quality contributor and well respectedbigfan77801 is a quality contributor and well respectedbigfan77801 is a quality contributor and well respectedbigfan77801 is a quality contributor and well respectedbigfan77801 is a quality contributor and well respectedbigfan77801 is a quality contributor and well respectedbigfan77801 is a quality contributor and well respectedbigfan77801 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

If Sage is so good that he deserves to be the starter then that deficit is not impossible to overcome. After all isn't he the one who led the 4th quarter comeback in the 2nd Tacks game? If he isn't that good whom do you see starting? I just want this team to win some games and shut up the haters.
__________________
Right is right, even if everyone is against it and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it--William Penn.
bigfan77801 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008   #49
J-Russ
Hall of Fame
 
J-Russ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,655
Rep Power: 40 J-Russ is a quality contributor and well respectedJ-Russ is a quality contributor and well respectedJ-Russ is a quality contributor and well respectedJ-Russ is a quality contributor and well respectedJ-Russ is a quality contributor and well respectedJ-Russ is a quality contributor and well respectedJ-Russ is a quality contributor and well respectedJ-Russ is a quality contributor and well respectedJ-Russ is a quality contributor and well respectedJ-Russ is a quality contributor and well respectedJ-Russ is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

Some good stuff from the Z report....

About letting go Schaub after this season:

Quote:
If you cut or traded him, it would cause a cap hit of just over 1 million, but he has a salary of 6.95 million due next year so you would actually save money. In fact, Schaub has an option bonus of 10 million dollars due in March of 2010 so the Texans will want to get him figured out way before then. Clearly that was put in place in order to redo the deal. Bad move by Schaub's agent and good move by the Texans it looks like.
anddd...

Quote:
As for grooming a QB, they would absolutely look for one. Keep in mind that Sage is a free agent after this year. I'll go over a list of top prospects here pretty quickly.
I'm not sure, but people have said Sage is still on contract until after the '09... so which one is it, FA in '08 or '09? And yea I agree on drafting a QB to groom.
J-Russ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008   #50
Nighthawk
All Pro
 
Nighthawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 719
Rep Power: 0 Nighthawk does not work well with others
Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
I don't think Rosenfels is any better than Commander Cody Carelson and I'm comming to the conclusion that Schaub isn't any better than Rosenfels.....um, so that means we really don't have a starting QB, just a couple of good reserves.
Oh good Christ, Schaub is LESS GOOD than Rosenfels, and time will make this evident to those to whom it is not yet evident. And don't bring Cody Carlson in here, he was nowhere near as good as either of these two--he was a wonderful kid and all that, but way less than mediocre.

Sage is the Texans QB who gives us the best chance to win. Period. He's already proven that. All it takes now is for our thick-headed mouth-breather of a coach to realize winning with Sage is better than losing with his pride and joy boy Schaub.
Nighthawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008   #51
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
 
CloakNNNdagger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 16,514
Rep Power: 266923 CloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
I don't think Rosenfels is any better than Commander Cody Carelson and I'm comming to the conclusion that Schaub isn't any better than Rosenfels.....um, so that means we really don't have a starting QB, just a couple of good reserves.
Vinny I don't know that I can share your feelings on Rosenfels. But I would have to question if Schaub can at this point even be considered a "good reserve."
CloakNNNdagger is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008   #52
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
 
Texecutioner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,812
Rep Power: 125690 Texecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GP View Post
OK, here I go again:

Last year, Schaub's pocket awareness, in-the-pocket mobility, and just his overall "zip" in his legs and his arm was GREAT in week one. We had sports media analysts saying "Hey, that was a smart move by the Texans."

But then I started noticing that he began dropping off. We still looked OK, but I noticed Schaub was slowing down. The legs looked sluggish, the footwork was gone, and he was getting touched a lot more. And he was making questionable passes. I still say that the Carolina game last season was a factor of our special teams more than Schaub's comeback abilities.

Well, I also was not fan of Schaub's red zone abilities. He seemed to move the ball well, between the 20s, but he just sort of "breaks down" mentally AND physically when we sniff paydirt. You can see it. It's not hard to notice it.

I got hammered for stating all this, getting heckled for it by the great fans here on this board. Everybody feels this overwhelming need to ridicule those who don't drink the Kool Aid on the QB situation (of all things). I think a lot of it is because we don't admit that we BLEW two consecutive 2nd rounders, and possibly two or three years of our lives on a guy that just HAS to be better than David Carr. So, a lot of people want to keep eating (insert your favorite word for it here) just for the sake of convincing themselves that things are going to be OK.

Here's a line that you'' recognize as one of mine: Matt Schaub will NOT become the QB that he was expected to be. Why? Because while he was "some" skills that suit the WCO, he is not athletic enough to survive the hits that ALL NFL QBs are going to take from time to time.

The legs look like he's running in a sandbox, the footwork is bad, and he doesn't deal with the pressure good enough. I've seen him make some good bail-outs, but that was last season in the first 1-3 games.

But, he DOES call all his teammates and get into touch with them. So he's got THAT going for him.

Look, he's a nicer guy (all around) than Carr ever was and will be. He stopped the bleeding that Carr started. But when I saw Schaub mouthing at Kubiak on the sideline, I think we just saw two guys who might be in a little over the heads here...trying to point the finger at the other.

Going to be interesting to see how long it takes Kubiak to try something different than what's NOT working and HASN'T been working since about week 3 of last year. Schaub was awful yesterday.

The Titans fans know it, and Haynesworth knows it. They love to see Schaub in the game like we used to love to see Byron Leftwich in the game. And when that "bad QB gravy train" stops...it's funny how things get eerily silent from the opposing fans. It's a "Oh, crap...they figured it out..." sort of silence.

Kubiak? Don't get me started on that issue. He doesn't understand simple math:

Titans 24
Texans 12

12 + 3 = 15

15 + 3 = 18

18 + 6 = 24

24 + 1 = 25

25 = We win.

We should have kicked two field goals, and then we could have had more pressure on the Titans as we try to score the TD with 2 minutes left. Kris is just begging for those opportunities. It seemed so simple, to me, at the time. KICK THE FIELD GOAL. There's a ton of time left in the game to do it. And "No," this is not me looking back on it all. I was saying this from the very first 4th down effort that failed. "WHAT?!? No, no. no no. NO!!! Take the points! We can do this!"

(Sigh)

If Kubiak likes being a head coach in Houston, he better stop playing footsy with Schaub and go ahead and let him have a breather--Put in Sage vs. Jags. Say that Schaub has bruided ribs. It ain't like it'd be the first time Kubiak lied about an injury before...

But someone else is right: He's going to lose this TEAM if he doesn't try Sage. I think AJ's body language said it all: "Another dopey QB...again." AJ wasn't acting like he cared out there. Period. And who can blame him? He'd be on a playoff team if he wasn't HERE. I think AJ is one breath away from saying he wants out. He looked like he had just learned somebody in his family died yesterday. No emotion. No quickness when he broke for the ball on his routes. Not even upset when he dropped a ball or whatever. He just looked like a zombie out there.

I think AJ is sending that signal to Kubiak, IMO.
Um, you're not alone in this. I've said that Kubiak won't be the guy to take this team out of the cellar since the end of season one with him. His play calling has been bad from the start.

Kubiak is the one that said he could win with Carr. That didn't work.

Kubiak is the guy that wanted Shaub so badly and felt the need to give up so much for him. Then him and Smith thought a back up that had proven nothing was worth a 48 Million dollar contract.

Kubiak is the guy that has had poor play calling every season with his constant run plays on 3rd and long. God, I remember the booo's the last two season when he continually did that.

The funny thing is how all of these Texans Homers immediately thought Kubiak was all of a sudden THE GUY just because he was hired, and because he was the hot name at the moment. The homers completely disregarded the fact that he had never been a head coach yet, and hadn't proven anything, but he was sooooo great right?

Oh, and lets not forget how many swore our running game was about to become one of the best in the NFL once he got here. Boy has that been wrong.

Oh, and Kubiak wouldn't let Shaub and Sage even compete for the job. Two career back ups?? Give me a break!

Now he still won't start Sage who at this point has proven that he can play better when given his chances after watching the first two games. How many INT's has shaub thrown thus far? I've lost count.

Oh, and remember when some people thought Sage should get his shot when Carr was here, but they didn't want to pull Carr either. Yeah that David Carr loyalty worked out well didn't it?

I remember before the season in here if you would have even mentioned a negative criticism of Kubiak you would get flamed in here by so many homers and pumpers. Boy how some things change so fast.

I'm sure will have Kubiak for one more year after this, because Mcnair is so loyal to anyone he hires and winning isn't everything to him like it is to other owners, so hopefully Kubiak will turn it around, but I sure as hell won't hold my breath or have any confidence in him with the decisions he has made. I still have yet to see what Kubiak's strengths are as a coach and what kind of identity he has tried to put forth for this team. It looks like the same team when Kubiak first got here. No surprise to me.
Texecutioner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008   #53
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
 
Texans_Chick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,262
Rep Power: 78323 Texans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respectedTexans_Chick is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Um, you're not alone in this. I've said that Kubiak won't be the guy to take this team out of the cellar since the end of season one with him. His play calling has been bad from the start.

Kubiak is the one that said he could win with Carr. That didn't work.

Kubiak is the guy that wanted Shaub so badly and felt the need to give up so much for him. Then him and Smith thought a back up that had proven nothing was worth a 48 Million dollar contract.

Kubiak is the guy that has had poor play calling every season with his constant run plays on 3rd and long. God, I remember the booo's the last two season when he continually did that.

The funny thing is how all of these Texans Homers immediately thought Kubiak was all of a sudden THE GUY just because he was hired, and because he was the hot name at the moment. The homers completely disregarded the fact that he had never been a head coach yet, and hadn't proven anything, but he was sooooo great right?

Oh, and lets not forget how many swore our running game was about to become one of the best in the NFL once he got here. Boy has that been wrong.

Oh, and Kubiak wouldn't let Shaub and Sage even compete for the job. Two career back ups?? Give me a break!

Now he still won't start Sage who at this point has proven that he can play better when given his chances after watching the first two games. How many INT's has shaub thrown thus far? I've lost count.

Oh, and remember when some people thought Sage should get his shot when Carr was here, but they didn't want to pull Carr either. Yeah that David Carr loyalty worked out well didn't it?

I remember before the season in here if you would have even mentioned a negative criticism of Kubiak you would get flamed in here by so many homers and pumpers. Boy how some things change so fast.

I'm sure will have Kubiak for one more year after this, because Mcnair is so loyal to anyone he hires and winning isn't everything to him like it is to other owners, so hopefully Kubiak will turn it around, but I sure as hell won't hold my breath or have any confidence in him with the decisions he has made. I still have yet to see what Kubiak's strengths are as a coach and what kind of identity he has tried to put forth for this team. It looks like the same team when Kubiak first got here. No surprise to me.
Some thoughts:

1. Who should the Texans have gotten at QB at the end of 2006?

2. Carr's extension was due right at the time Kubiak was hired. McNair's consultant, Dan Reeves said Carr wasn't the problem. Most of the 2005 tape was unusuable of Carr. The beginning of 2004 had some good tape. Kubiak had no time to learn that Carr was a nicklehead because he couldn't work with him before he was hired. And he wasn't around to learn that Carr had already lost the locker room. I don't put the Carr not being fixable on Kubiak--there was so much screwed up with the Pendry/Palmer offense that Carr's screwups were mixed with everything else.

3. Which coach did you prefer at the end of 2005? (who would actually consider coming to the Texans' situation).

4. Kubiak did pull Carr in a game and replaced him with Sage. Sage would have very likely finished the 2007 season had he not got hurt in a fluke play. I expect if Schaub continues to be a bonehead, he will get replaced too. Once you ring the replace the QB bell, it is hard to unring it. Personally, if we see the Sage experience again, I bet it is due to injury to Schaub. I think Schaub will get his mojo back enough to keep his job.

5. I think one of the reasons why Kubiak has been so protective of his quarterbacks is that he has done them few favors with the running game.

6. I think that at a minimum, if you are criticizing the QB play, you should attempt to spell that QB's name correctly as it takes away from your credibility.
__________________
More? Please check out Ultimate Texans Chronicle Blog & Steph Stradley Blog & Twitter @StephStradley
Texans_Chick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008   #54
Texan JBZ
Da Sip's Finest
 
Texan JBZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Houston, Texas, Home of the Texans!
Age: 34
Posts: 1,444
Rep Power: 1065 Texan JBZ is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan JBZ is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan JBZ is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan JBZ is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan JBZ is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan JBZ is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan JBZ is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan JBZ is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan JBZ is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan JBZ is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan JBZ is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

Very good comments by all you guys (and gals) who have posted. Let's put aside the Kubiak and Schaub bashing for a second and answer this question. If Sage does start for the Texans, but nothing changes because he plays poor also, then what? Does Kubes decide to stick with him when Schaub is on the bench getting paid a ton of money? Does he put Schaub back in and hope that his psyche is still in good shape? Do the Texans just play out the remainder of the season with both QBs struggling and draft another with a high draft choice? Oorrrrrr, does Bob McNice finally take a chance and roll the dice on Mike Vick....
__________________
I know what dude I am. I'm the dude playin' the dude, disguised as another dude!
Texan JBZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008   #55
Honoring Earl 34
Hey Koolaid
 
Honoring Earl 34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Houston
Age: 51
Posts: 19,349
Rep Power: 212977 Honoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respectedHonoring Earl 34 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

Quote:
5. I think one of the reasons why Kubiak has been so protective of his quarterbacks is that he has done them few favors with the running game.
I think he's protective of the QBs because he endorsed this one and gave up alot of money and draft picks and he's supposed to be the expert .

I think TC was right before the season started . She was skeptical and I thought she was being ... well ... kinda like having cold feet before the season started . Now she is being calm and reasonable and we ( me included ) want to burn the barn to kill the rats ( what movie was that out of ) .

I'm so letdown by our back to the future football and having cowboy fans letting me have it ... it irks me . At least VY spit the bit and we don't have to hear from that sector .
__________________
I wanted to write something big .

Round Dan
Honoring Earl 34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008   #56
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
 
Texecutioner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,812
Rep Power: 125690 Texecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Some thoughts:

1. Who should the Texans have gotten at QB at the end of 2006?

2. Carr's extension was due right at the time Kubiak was hired. McNair's consultant, Dan Reeves said Carr wasn't the problem. Most of the 2005 tape was unusuable of Carr. The beginning of 2004 had some good tape. Kubiak had no time to learn that Carr was a nicklehead because he couldn't work with him before he was hired. And he wasn't around to learn that Carr had already lost the locker room. I don't put the Carr not being fixable on Kubiak--there was so much screwed up with the Pendry/Palmer offense that Carr's screwups were mixed with everything else.

3. Which coach did you prefer at the end of 2005? (who would actually consider coming to the Texans' situation).

4. Kubiak did pull Carr in a game and replaced him with Sage. Sage would have very likely finished the 2007 season had he not got hurt in a fluke play. I expect if Schaub continues to be a bonehead, he will get replaced too. Once you ring the replace the QB bell, it is hard to unring it. Personally, if we see the Sage experience again, I bet it is due to injury to Schaub. I think Schaub will get his mojo back enough to keep his job.

5. I think one of the reasons why Kubiak has been so protective of his quarterbacks is that he has done them few favors with the running game.

6. I think that at a minimum, if you are criticizing the QB play, you should attempt to spell that QB's name correctly as it takes away from your credibility.

1. Good question? I can't remember who was all available at the time. I didn't think that Matt was really a bad guy to give a shot at, but I certainly was not happy with what we gave up for him. 2 2nd round PICKS and moving our 8th to 10th pick??? Really? For an unproven back up? A 48 Million dollar contract for an unproven back up? Matt wasn't a bad guy to go after like I said, but we gave up way to much for an unproven guy. We could have waited and given Sage a shot for at least one season. Sage had shown some promise, and yes he was unproven also but at least we would have had him along with 2 2nd round draft picks that we desperately needed.

And make no mistake about it, we would have had JAKE PLUMMER had Kubiak gotten his way. That would have been probably just as bad, and I was just waiting to pick up the paper and read that Plummer was on a plan to Houston.


2, 3, & 4. I never thought Kubiak was a bad hire at the time. I was all for it. However, I approached my opinion with CAUTION. Good coaches in the NFL are hard to find, so I don't believe in just giving any NEW GUY in town a long leash unless he's earned a great reputation as a HEAD COACH and been successful in this league as a head coach, and not just some coordinator. I wasn't one of the ones that thought he was the guy to take them to the promised land just because he was our new head coach and because I was so happy to get rid of Capers. That is homer thinking at it's best. All we know is that Kubiak said that he could win with Carr. Now, maybe he said that because he thought that was how he could get the job or maybe he really thought Carr was a great QB. We don't know. We just know what his statement was, and off of that statement, he was WRONG.


5. Maybe you're right. However, this is the thing that bothers me about Kubiak the most. I don't care what anyone says now, I heard from numerous folks all about how our running game was going to instantly turn around with this guy from Denver and what an OFFENSIVE GENIUS he was and blah blah blah. Our running game has seen it's worst years under Kubiak, and the entire offense is predicated on the SUCCESS of the running game. How does this system work when you don't have a good RB, and your O line is not so hot??? The whole scheme for this team offensively seemed doomed from the start. Remember everyone raving about Wali Lundy and Morency all because Kubiak and his new system was here and how even the no name guys like these two were going to look like every Denver RB that has had success? Yeah, I remember getting cursed at for not buying into that false hope. Then Ron Diggity Dayne Train? Another Denver hopeful! Yeah, that was pretty bad. Amaan Green and Chris brown? Kubiak has failed this team miserably when it comes to his running system and the backs he chooses to make his system what it is. He feels that pounding the ball despite your lack of running game is going to set up the Play Action pass. Well it does sometimes, but I'm still trying to find this great running game that Kubiak was supposed to bring to this team. That was supposed to be his strength. That and his so called great knowledge and expertise with QB's. So far we haven't seen any of this and we're approaching year 3 looking like capers is still here.


6. Yeah, I guess I spelled Schaub incorrectly. Wow! I can't win any spelling bees especially when it comes to last names. This last part takes away from your credibility with the fact that you have to use this as an argument for the QB. I haven't bashed Schaub once. I gave him constructive criticism just like I do for any team's QB. Just because he plays for the Texans doesn't mean that he's off limits to be criticized for inefficient play. He's a professional that gets paid the big bucks to either be THE GUY or be the back up. Right now he looks like the back up that he was when we got him.
Texecutioner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008   #57
GP 
Go Texans!
 
GP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: TEXAS!
Posts: 17,747
Rep Power: 50777 GP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GP View Post
So Sage has a 21-3 deficit to overcome?

That's becoming a familiar sight. And not very fair to a guy who was 4-1 as a starter last season.

Matt Schaub is the reason Sage Rosenfels did not DEMAND a trade after last season. I think he knew he'd have another shot at it. Interceptions be damned, Sage seems to be grooving in Kubiak's offense well enough to give us a better shot at wins than Schaub has. But, Sage is a journeyman QB who has had his shot and failed...oh, like Kerry Collins who managed OK on Sunday vs. us.

And again: Neither guy is a guy who has that "it" factor that suddenly springs a team to a 10-6 record out of nowhere...but one guy is definitely not getting it done right now, and a change is needed. I don't know why Kubiak doesn't just sit Matt down and tell him he needs to take a breather.
Gotta bump my own post since you'll be seeing HoustonFrog stalking my posts and claiming that I think "Sage is The BEST QB Ever."

I have put this disclaimer in my Schaub rants because Frog plays lawyer and tries to spin things to free his client (Schaub) of the charges.

(Sigh)

Are we any better today? I bet there's a lot of "evaluating" going on deep in the Texans complex of wise and powerful coaching wizadry.
__________________
GP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008   #58
Texan_Bill 
Subscribed Contributor
 
Texan_Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Houston. Mediocrity Lives Here!!
Section: Bull Pen!!
Age: 47
Posts: 48,473
Rep Power: 140889 Texan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
1. For an unproven back up? A 48 Million dollar contract for an unproven back up?
The deal is really worth 3 years at about $20 million. The Texans would have to pay him a $10 million dollar bonus to keep him around for the following 3 years otherwise he becomes a FA after his third season, or the 2009 season.

*EDIT*
I did mean to mention that two 2nd rounders was kind of steep though...
__________________
We SUCK AGAIN!

Last edited by Texan_Bill; 09-23-2008 at 04:45 PM.
Texan_Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008   #59
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
 
Texecutioner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,812
Rep Power: 125690 Texecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respectedTexecutioner is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
The deal is really worth 3 years at about $20 million. The Texans would have to pay him a $10 million dollar bonus to keep him around for the following 3 years otherwise he becomes a FA after his third season, or the 2009 season.
Yeah, I know the big numbers with these contracts always seem like a bit more but still pretty good money for an unproven guy. That was more on Smith than Kubiak though Bill. I was really more unhappy about what we gave up to get him.
Texecutioner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008   #60
Texan_Bill 
Subscribed Contributor
 
Texan_Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Houston. Mediocrity Lives Here!!
Section: Bull Pen!!
Age: 47
Posts: 48,473
Rep Power: 140889 Texan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Yeah, I know the big numbers with these contracts always seem like a bit more but still pretty good money for an unproven guy. That was more on Smith than Kubiak though Bill. I was really more unhappy about what we gave up to get him.
You probably posted as I was editing mine.. I do agree about the two second rounders. That is steep. And it is true, that Smith owns this one.
__________________
We SUCK AGAIN!
Texan_Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger