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Old 09-22-2008   #1
Texan JBZ
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Default If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

If Kubiak decides to start Sage and he doesn't play any better than Schaub, then what? I know everybody is frustrated with Schaub. I am to a certain extent. He did have 3 TD passes dropped against the Titans. The two by AJ have gotten the most attention, but Walter also had one in his hands in the endzone and couldn't bring it in. That's 21 points that went straight out the window. Had the receivers come down with the ball, everyone would be talking differently about Schaub. But I know - If my aunt had a pipe she'd be my uncle, right?

All I'm saying is that if Sage is put in as the starter next week, what kind of difference do you think it would make. Kubes is still calling the plays you know. I like Sage, but he is a high risk-high reward type of QB. He's a gunslinger. He might throw 4TDs or 4 INTs. I say that it is still wayyyyyy too early in the season to be overhauling. A lot of teams that are winning right now such as Buffalo and Denver may be losing teams in 4 weeks. I say wait a few more weeks. If Schaub's play doesn't improve over the next two games, then pull him as the starter for the remainder of the season. That way, there's no second guessing needed.
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Old 09-22-2008   #2
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Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

He's not going to start Sage.

If Schaub tanks against Jacksonville? Then I could see it happening. He played horribly - but like you said - he had two TDs dropped today. If that doesn't happen, we might be talking about a hard-fought loss that we just couldn't pull off in the end.

Or - instead of 31-12, it might have been 45-24. /shrug
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Old 09-22-2008   #3
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Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

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He's not going to start Sage.
My dime says he'll find a way to get Sage in the game next week, though you may be right that it'll take another game or two.
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Old 09-22-2008   #4
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Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

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Originally Posted by DiehardChris View Post
He's not going to start Sage.

If Schaub tanks against Jacksonville? Then I could see it happening. He played horribly - but like you said - he had two TDs dropped today. If that doesn't happen, we might be talking about a hard-fought loss that we just couldn't pull off in the end.

Or - instead of 31-12, it might have been 45-24. /shrug
You never know what could have happened if a few plays went a little differently. It changes the play calling. I'm guessing that last INT TD doesn't happen.
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Old 09-22-2008   #5
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Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

If Schaub stinks it up against the Jags like he did the first 2 weeks, I doubt
that he remains the starter for the Texans home opener the following week
against the Colts. But he's got this week to make it happen, after that Kubiak
has to second-guess the whole decision he & Smith made about the trade to ATL for Schaub and bring in Sage IMO.
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Old 09-22-2008   #6
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Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

What amazed me was that we started to move the ball (a little) by rolling Schaub out, and with misdirections. When we started the second half it seemed as though we went back to the straight drop back.... Or was I crazy from the heat???
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Old 09-22-2008   #7
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Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

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All I'm saying is that if Sage is put in as the starter next week, what kind of
Before I post this let me preface it by saying I've been a Schaub supporter since day one, and I still think he can be effective with more consistent protection.



That said, I think the t.v. announcers nailed it yesterday.


From my observations, I recognized that Schaub had never done anything against a tough defense. I knew he struggled with pressure in his face. I knew he lacked mobility.

What I hadn't ever really thought about was him not showing that he can make plays when things break down around him.

I like Matt and I think that if guys around him were more solid/played better he could lead us to more victories/put more points on the board. Unfortunately, that isn't happening.

This isn't a ringing endorsement for Sage. He has problems of his own and by no means do I think he's going to come in and be the answer.

At this point though, Sage's mobility and his ability to make plays when things are breaking down might be a trump card......But then again, maybe not....

It's a tough decision, one I'm glad I don't have to make.
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Old 09-22-2008   #8
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Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
You never know what could have happened if a few plays went a little differently. It changes the play calling. I'm guessing that last INT TD doesn't happen.
Reviewing that 1st dropped ball by AJ, there was no way he could have caught that ball AND kept both feet in bounds. AJ was trying to keep his feet in and the ball was thrown just beyond his limits to do both. From a fan standpoint, we would have accepted it better if he had caught it, and reviewed the fact that he could not have stay in bounds. AJ as nice as he is, is not about to put the finger of the placement of the ball on Schaub (in public).
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Old 09-22-2008   #9
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Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

I've seen plenty recievers make that catch and stay in bounds. AJ had both feet in bounds as he dropped the ball.

We don't make excuses for anyone else on this team...

A.J. dropped some balls that he shoulda caught...

Last edited by Polo; 09-22-2008 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 09-22-2008   #10
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Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

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I've seen plenty recievers make that catch and stay in bounds. AJ had both feet in bounds as he dropped the ball.

We don't make excuses for anyone else on this team...

A.J. dropped some balls that he shoulda caught...
I agree. I'm guessing Cloak might be thinking of a different play, because AJ stayed in bounds while dropping the ball.

The long ball in the middle should've been even easier to catch. He should've shielded off the defender with his body, but the ball should've been caught anyway.
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Old 09-22-2008   #11
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Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
You never know what could have happened if a few plays went a little differently. It changes the play calling. I'm guessing that last INT TD doesn't happen.
Eh.. i can't fault schaub for that he was just trying to make something happen with limited time on the clock & trying not to take the sack...you see it all the time at the end of games. They still had to recover the onside kick & go down the field & score another TD to win it...pretty long odds made even longer b/c tenn's defense is pretty good.
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Old 09-22-2008   #12
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Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

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Originally Posted by Texan JBZ View Post
If Kubiak decides to start Sage and he doesn't play any better than Schaub, then what? I know everybody is frustrated with Schaub. I am to a certain extent. He did have 3 TD passes dropped against the Titans. The two by AJ have gotten the most attention, but Walter also had one in his hands in the endzone and couldn't bring it in. That's 21 points that went straight out the window. Had the receivers come down with the ball, everyone would be talking differently about Schaub. But I know - If my aunt had a pipe she'd be my uncle, right?

All I'm saying is that if Sage is put in as the starter next week, what kind of difference do you think it would make. Kubes is still calling the plays you know. I like Sage, but he is a high risk-high reward type of QB. He's a gunslinger. He might throw 4TDs or 4 INTs. I say that it is still wayyyyyy too early in the season to be overhauling. A lot of teams that are winning right now such as Buffalo and Denver may be losing teams in 4 weeks. I say wait a few more weeks. If Schaub's play doesn't improve over the next two games, then pull him as the starter for the remainder of the season. That way, there's no second guessing needed.
Lil Shanny is calling the plays.


As for making the change and not getting results , thats a risk reward type move and probably a good part of the reason Kubiak hasnt gone to Rosenfels yet.
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Old 09-22-2008   #13
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Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

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Lil Shanny is calling the plays.


As for making the change and not getting results , thats a risk reward type move and probably a good part of the reason Kubiak hasnt gone to Rosenfels yet.
He might call the plays, but they go through Kubiak. Kubiak's the one that relays them to the QB
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Old 09-22-2008   #14
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Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

That goal line series where we passed on first and second and then tried to run on third really hurt my feelings.

Terrible series of play-calling.

Also late in the game where we needed to get a first down and it was like 3rd and 5 we ran that pitch to Slaton...Dumb....Tennesee had been all over that stuff...They were around the LOS all day long...I understand wanting to get the ball into Slaton's hands, but why not hit them with something a little more creative than a toss to the short side of the field ?
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Old 09-22-2008   #15
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Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

I'm not trying to say it's the O-lines fault, because there is plenty of blame to go ALL around our team. Schaub has got to improve b/c he's not playing like a franchise QB right now, I get that.

But what I'm sick and tired of, is seeing Schaub move around in the pocket, step (exactly like what a QB is supposed to do), deliver a great throw that's a big completion... maybe even a TD, and then he gets DRILLED. Not just pushed down, he rolls over and gets up... but gets hit hard with the DE/DT driving him to the ground. This happens multiple times every game and Schaub is not going to be successful unless this can stop.

This is the biggest thing that frustrates me about this team right now (and there are LOTS of things that frustrate me). Yes, we've improved in pass protection, yes our sacks have nearly halved since Carr left, but the QB hurries and the QB hits are still there. I don't care if he avoids a sack and throws a TD... he's still getting hit the hardest in the league and he won't be avoiding sacks and throwing TD's much longer if this continues.
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Old 09-22-2008   #16
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Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

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But what I'm sick and tired of, is seeing Schaub move around in the pocket, step (exactly like what a QB is supposed to do), deliver a great throw that's a big completion... maybe even a TD, and then he gets DRILLED. Not just pushed down, he rolls over and gets up... but gets hit hard with the DE/DT driving him to the ground. This happens multiple times every game and Schaub is not going to be successful unless this can stop.
Did you watch the Dallas vs GB game last night ?


The difference between Schaub and the QB's from that game is mobility and the ability do do something when protection breaks down...

When has Schaub EVER done that ? When has Schaub ever performed against a tough, physical defense?

Every QB gets hit and gets licks put on them...

Last edited by Polo; 09-22-2008 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 09-22-2008   #17
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Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

Sitting Schaub has to be done so the team can see that Kubes is trying to do what is best for the team. Otherwise, they see Schaub still playing and figure either they can play crappy too or Schaub is the favorite and can't be touched. I know of a previous regime that handled the QB situation that way before and well....

Anyhow, ever since Sage has been here he has made good things happen and he deserves his shot.
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Old 09-22-2008   #18
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Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

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Originally Posted by Polo View Post
Did you watch the Dallas vs GB game last night ?


The difference between Schaub and the QB's from that game is mobility and the ability do do something when protection breaks down...

When has Schaub EVER done that ? When has Schaub ever performed against a tough, physical defense?
Every QB gets hit and gets licks put on them...
I think that has a lot to do with this teams offensive philosophy. ZBS teams seem to struggle Vs. more physical defenses. It starts up fromt in the trenches , you lose those battles you generally lose the game.


I've said it before and I'll say it again , I'm not a fan of the ZBS and its smaller more agile linemen , give me a bunch of road grader type guy's who just go out and knock the **** outa the opposition control the line of scrimmage and the clock.
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Old 09-22-2008   #19
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Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

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Originally Posted by El Tejano View Post
Sitting Schaub has to be done so the team can see that Kubes is trying to do what is best for the team. Otherwise, they see Schaub still playing and figure either they can play crappy too or Schaub is the favorite and can't be touched. I know of a previous regime that handled the QB situation that way before and well....

Anyhow, ever since Sage has been here he has made good things happen and he deserves his shot.
people used to say the same about tony banks...the backup qb is always the more popular of the 2 unless you're 1 of the what 5-6 teams who are set with thier franchise guy.
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Old 09-22-2008   #20
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Default Re: If Kubiak decides to start Sage...

OK, here I go again:

Last year, Schaub's pocket awareness, in-the-pocket mobility, and just his overall "zip" in his legs and his arm was GREAT in week one. We had sports media analysts saying "Hey, that was a smart move by the Texans."

But then I started noticing that he began dropping off. We still looked OK, but I noticed Schaub was slowing down. The legs looked sluggish, the footwork was gone, and he was getting touched a lot more. And he was making questionable passes. I still say that the Carolina game last season was a factor of our special teams more than Schaub's comeback abilities.

Well, I also was not fan of Schaub's red zone abilities. He seemed to move the ball well, between the 20s, but he just sort of "breaks down" mentally AND physically when we sniff paydirt. You can see it. It's not hard to notice it.

I got hammered for stating all this, getting heckled for it by the great fans here on this board. Everybody feels this overwhelming need to ridicule those who don't drink the Kool Aid on the QB situation (of all things). I think a lot of it is because we don't admit that we BLEW two consecutive 2nd rounders, and possibly two or three years of our lives on a guy that just HAS to be better than David Carr. So, a lot of people want to keep eating (insert your favorite word for it here) just for the sake of convincing themselves that things are going to be OK.

Here's a line that you'' recognize as one of mine: Matt Schaub will NOT become the QB that he was expected to be. Why? Because while he was "some" skills that suit the WCO, he is not athletic enough to survive the hits that ALL NFL QBs are going to take from time to time.

The legs look like he's running in a sandbox, the footwork is bad, and he doesn't deal with the pressure good enough. I've seen him make some good bail-outs, but that was last season in the first 1-3 games.

But, he DOES call all his teammates and get into touch with them. So he's got THAT going for him.

Look, he's a nicer guy (all around) than Carr ever was and will be. He stopped the bleeding that Carr started. But when I saw Schaub mouthing at Kubiak on the sideline, I think we just saw two guys who might be in a little over the heads here...trying to point the finger at the other.

Going to be interesting to see how long it takes Kubiak to try something different than what's NOT working and HASN'T been working since about week 3 of last year. Schaub was awful yesterday.

The Titans fans know it, and Haynesworth knows it. They love to see Schaub in the game like we used to love to see Byron Leftwich in the game. And when that "bad QB gravy train" stops...it's funny how things get eerily silent from the opposing fans. It's a "Oh, crap...they figured it out..." sort of silence.

Kubiak? Don't get me started on that issue. He doesn't understand simple math:

Titans 24
Texans 12

12 + 3 = 15

15 + 3 = 18

18 + 6 = 24

24 + 1 = 25

25 = We win.

We should have kicked two field goals, and then we could have had more pressure on the Titans as we try to score the TD with 2 minutes left. Kris is just begging for those opportunities. It seemed so simple, to me, at the time. KICK THE FIELD GOAL. There's a ton of time left in the game to do it. And "No," this is not me looking back on it all. I was saying this from the very first 4th down effort that failed. "WHAT?!? No, no. no no. NO!!! Take the points! We can do this!"

(Sigh)

If Kubiak likes being a head coach in Houston, he better stop playing footsy with Schaub and go ahead and let him have a breather--Put in Sage vs. Jags. Say that Schaub has bruided ribs. It ain't like it'd be the first time Kubiak lied about an injury before...

But someone else is right: He's going to lose this TEAM if he doesn't try Sage. I think AJ's body language said it all: "Another dopey QB...again." AJ wasn't acting like he cared out there. Period. And who can blame him? He'd be on a playoff team if he wasn't HERE. I think AJ is one breath away from saying he wants out. He looked like he had just learned somebody in his family died yesterday. No emotion. No quickness when he broke for the ball on his routes. Not even upset when he dropped a ball or whatever. He just looked like a zombie out there.

I think AJ is sending that signal to Kubiak, IMO.
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