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Old 09-07-2008   #1
Marcus
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Default Defense TOO TALENTED to be THIS BAD? . . . umm NO!

I keep reading this comment . . .

"This defense is way too talented to be this bad" . . .

Other than Mario, Demeco, and Amobi . . . who?
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Old 09-07-2008   #2
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Default Re: Defense TOO TALENTED to be THIS BAD? . . . umm NO!

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
I keep reading this comment . . .

"This defense is way too talented to be this bad" . . .

Other than Mario, Demeco, and Amobi . . . who?
Other teams don't have allstars at every position........our sucky defense goes beyond just the "lack of talent". Our scheme just plain sucks. Teams usually play vanilla defense in preseason, we play it all year.
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Old 09-07-2008   #3
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Default Re: Defense TOO TALENTED to be THIS BAD? . . . umm NO!

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Other teams don't have allstars at every position........our sucky defense goes beyond just the "lack of talent". Our scheme just plain sucks. Teams usually play vanilla defense in preseason, we play it all year.
Our scheme is vanilla but this is just a beatdown.
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Old 09-07-2008   #4
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Default Re: Defense TOO TALENTED to be THIS BAD? . . . umm NO!

Heres the problem:

Pittsburgh steelers are always within 1 or 2 yards of our WR if he catches the ball at all
Houston Texans always give at least a 5 yard cushion. Even if its 3rd and 1
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Old 09-07-2008   #5
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Default Re: Defense TOO TALENTED to be THIS BAD? . . . umm NO!

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Originally Posted by gtexan02 View Post
Heres the problem:

Pittsburgh steelers are always within 1 or 2 yards of our WR if he catches the ball at all
Houston Texans always give at least a 5 yard cushion. Even if its 3rd and 1
That's because the corners aren't good enough to play tight coverage. Like I said, where's all this talent that you're bragging about?
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Old 09-07-2008   #6
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Default Re: Defense TOO TALENTED to be THIS BAD? . . . umm NO!

Rewind that Ward TD from just now. Watch the initial defensive configuration. Ward is lined up on a LB. As a QB, I'd take that matchup all day. The coverage up top left a hole in the middle that Ward went to as soon as he got by Diles. Tell me how that's not a scheme problem again?

I hear what you're saying about talent, but it's both. Smith sucks.
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Old 09-07-2008   #7
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Default Re: Defense TOO TALENTED to be THIS BAD? . . . umm NO!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
I keep reading this comment . . .

"This defense is way too talented to be this bad" . . .

Other than Mario, Demeco, and Amobi . . . who?
You want other stars? I can't give them to you because they aren't there. Tell me how many "stars" the Steelers have on their defense? How many do the Colts have? Lets get a little closer to our level. How many do the Broncos have?

When someone says this defense is too talented to be this bad they aren't saying that we've got 11 stars starting on that side of the ball. They're saying we have NFL caliber players at every position and that they should be more competitive than the mess we're seeing today in Pittsburgh.

Do you recall the Bum Phillips quote about Don Shula where he said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bum Phillips
"He can take his'n and beat your'n and take your'n and beat his'n."
Well, if he'd been talking about Richard Smith it would have gone something like "He can take his'n and you can run and pass all over em' or he can take your'n and make em' look just as bad".
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Old 09-07-2008   #8
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Default Re: Defense TOO TALENTED to be THIS BAD? . . . umm NO!

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
You want other stars? I can't give them to you because they aren't there. Tell me how many "stars" the Steelers have on their defense? How many do the Colts have? Lets get a little closer to our level. How many do the Broncos have?

When someone says this defense is too talented to be this bad they aren't saying that we've got 11 stars starting on that side of the ball. They're saying we have NFL caliber players at every position and that they should be more competitive than the mess we're seeing today in Pittsburgh.
So you think that just because players made the final 53, that makes them NFL caliber? You're definition of "NFL caliber" might just be a little different than mine. You can take any scheme you want, and it's still not going to make a DL opposite Mario all of a sudden get pressure on the QB, it's not going to make Morlon Greenwood any faster than the slug that he is now, and it's not going to make Reeves any better a CB. You have this idea that just waving your "Fire Richard Smith" wand will be a big cure all. It's just not that simple.
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Old 09-07-2008   #9
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Default Re: Defense TOO TALENTED to be THIS BAD? . . . umm NO!

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
So you think that just because players made the final 53, that makes them NFL caliber? You're definition of "NFL caliber" might just be a little different than mine. You can take any scheme you want, and it's still not going to make a DL opposite Mario all of a sudden get pressure on the QB, it's not going to make Morlon Greenwood any faster than the slug that he is now, and it's not going to make Reeves any better a CB. You have this idea that just waving your "Fire Richard Smith" wand will be a big cure all. It's just not that simple.
At some point you have to consider coaching. If not, Capers would still be here because he had even less talent than this team - maybe.

I think there is plenty of blame to go around. I wasn't feeling confident for the Texans going into the season anyway, so I'm not just reacting to this pasting by a good team.
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Old 09-07-2008   #10
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Default Re: Defense TOO TALENTED to be THIS BAD? . . . umm NO!

Don Shula isn't winning with CC Brown, Weaver, and Greenwood on his defense. And Richard Smith isn't winning anything with his "scheme".

So Herv & Marcus are both correct! Everyone's a winner....in this thread.
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Old 09-07-2008   #11
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Default Re: Defense TOO TALENTED to be THIS BAD? . . . umm NO!

You can point to individual player failures in today's loss - missed tackles, bad angles, too soft in coverage, etc. You can also look at coaching deficiencies - LBs on WRs and failure to react to the Steelers ripping apart your zones, for instance. I actually am not too dissatisfied with the pressure today, but the Steelers just beat it.

Regardless, we have both a talent deficiency and a coaching deficiency.
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Old 09-07-2008   #12
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Default Re: Defense TOO TALENTED to be THIS BAD? . . . umm NO!

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
You can point to individual player failures in today's loss - missed tackles, bad angles, too soft in coverage, etc. You can also look at coaching deficiencies - LBs on WRs and failure to react to the Steelers ripping apart your zones, for instance. I actually am not too dissatisfied with the pressure today, but the Steelers just beat it.

Regardless, we have both a talent deficiency and a coaching deficiency.
I think the Steelers videoed our defensive signals .
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Old 09-07-2008   #13
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Default Re: Defense TOO TALENTED to be THIS BAD? . . . umm NO!

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Rewind that Ward TD from just now. Watch the initial defensive configuration. Ward is lined up on a LB. As a QB, I'd take that matchup all day. The coverage up top left a hole in the middle that Ward went to as soon as he got by Diles. Tell me how that's not a scheme problem again?

I hear what you're saying about talent, but it's both. Smith sucks.
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Old 09-07-2008   #14
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Default Re: Defense TOO TALENTED to be THIS BAD? . . . umm NO!

Several years ago Kubiak said that he did not put his team in a position to win the game. This was another one. They were completely outcoached in this one and it was only surpassed by the defences inablility to tackle, and Schaub's terrible decisions as the low points in the game. I still think we are second in this division but at some point we need to replace Richard Smith.
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Old 09-07-2008   #15
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Default Re: Defense TOO TALENTED to be THIS BAD? . . . umm NO!

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
I keep reading this comment . . .

"This defense is way too talented to be this bad" . . .

Other than Mario, Demeco, and Amobi . . . who?
don't count Amobi.
he's not on the stat sheet
Even Zgonina had two tackles
Amobi didn't even get an assist
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Old 09-07-2008   #16
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Default Re: Defense TOO TALENTED to be THIS BAD? . . . umm NO!

Just to be clear, I have no illusions that Smith will keep his job if the defense keeps laying an egg like they did today. That's just the way the NFL works. You fire coaches, you waive players.

But I'll be shocked if Smith is fired before the end of the season, no matter how bad it gets. I'll put serious money down on that one. That's just not how the Front Office works, nor should it.
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Old 09-07-2008   #17
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Default Re: Defense TOO TALENTED to be THIS BAD? . . . umm NO!

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
So you think that just because players made the final 53, that makes them NFL caliber? You're definition of "NFL caliber" might just be a little different than mine. You can take any scheme you want, and it's still not going to make a DL opposite Mario all of a sudden get pressure on the QB, it's not going to make Morlon Greenwood any faster than the slug that he is now, and it's not going to make Reeves any better a CB. You have this idea that just waving your "Fire Richard Smith" wand will be a big cure all. It's just not that simple.
You could give that man the 85' Bears and he'd have them playing 9 yards off of receivers and getting "moderate" pressure out of their front four but whatever man. You simply refuse to buy into the idea that some coaches are > others for whatever reason. Suit yourself. We've all seen defenses that are for the most part unchanged go from being crap to caviar under the tutelage of a quality defensive coordinator. This is not some ****ing Madden NFL thought process I'm talking about. We've seen teams completely overhaul their personnel in less than three years. We've seen THIS TEAM do it for the most part.

The leftover pieces are not the worst players in the NFL (you would assume those were the guys sent packing right?) and the guys brought in are an upgrade over what we had here before Kubiak and Co. showed up.

Doesn't that stand to reason?

Then why in the hell do you think we're exactly as crappy as we were before any of these changes started? If it can be demonstrated to you (clearly, without any question) that we are not "stocked with talent" but that we're also not totally bereft of players who can play in the NFL then what in the hell is the problem if it isn't what these guys are being asked to do? How many times do you have to see a LB running behind a WR who is laughing his ass off while he racks up yardage to get it through your head that we are sending guys out there to get roasted alive? How many more good games do guys we've sent packing have to have in order to make that reality for you?

Whatever. It doesn't matter in the long run. 16 more weeks of this and we'll lose count of how many people are on the hot seat. Then they'll send all the players out the door because IT'S THE TALENT, NOT DICK SMITH.

Don't count on it. If Dick stays another year I'm betting he seals Kubiak's fate too.
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Old 09-07-2008   #18
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Default Re: Defense TOO TALENTED to be THIS BAD? . . . umm NO!

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Just to be clear, I have no illusions that Smith will keep his job if the defense keeps laying an egg like they did today. That's just the way the NFL works. You fire coaches, you waive players.

But I'll be shocked if Smith is fired before the end of the season, no matter how bad it gets. I'll put serious money down on that one. That's just not how the Front Office works, nor should it.
I agree with that.
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Old 09-07-2008   #19
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Default Re: Defense TOO TALENTED to be THIS BAD? . . . umm NO!

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I agree with that.
Believe it or not so do I. The time to make this change is passed and won't come again until after we've played another season of bad football.

Doesn't mean the change didn't need to happen.

And for the record I agree that there is a lot wrong with this team. There's a lot wrong with this organization and I'm starting to believe that we do not have the right kind of people at the top to field a competitive team in the NFL. Bob McNair might be a wonderful human being but he's been a complete patsy since the Texans came into existence. He's a clown fish swimming among sharks in this league and as long as he plays by his official "Boy Scouts of America book of good sportsmanship and conduct" we're going to suck and suck hard.
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Old 09-07-2008   #20
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Default Re: Defense TOO TALENTED to be THIS BAD? . . . umm NO!

Bottom line for this team is when they get matched up with another team with mediocre talent, they can compete. When they are out manned they lay this type of egg. Same style of game happened in Jacksonville last year. Kubiack knew. Took the chance early to give himself the extra time to eat on the clock and keep them in the game.

I think it is a waisted time to bang on Smith. In the first place they aren't going to bring in a wild man balls to the wall d-coordinator like the Texas El Paso guy in the middle of the season. In the second place it goes against Gary Kubiack's mind set of bend but don't break defense. I mean the broncos have been doing this style of defense since I was a little boy...forty years. And third I think some of you using "well other teams have lesser talent" argument do not understand the level of talent our dogs do possess. They're going to pick at our DTs, the Safeties and Will Line backer all season long. Whether or not Smith is here or not. Might as well face it...Weaver, T.J. and Greenwood are out right dogs. Nothing the d co-coordinator can do to change that. They send five they get blocked. They send six they get blocked. Been going on for four years. Might be the d-co-coordinators fault. My money says it's the players not playing. The players can only do so much with the talent God has given them. And the HC knows this too.
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