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Old 09-01-2008   #21
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Default Re: Dale Robertson article on the Texans' Defense ...or lack of

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Fess up, guys! You want a 'damn the torpedos, full speed ahead' DC that will put a QB on his back, even though he might throw 6 long bombs for TDs.
Which is odd, because when Smith was hired many were concerned about a blitz crazy scheme due to a supposed Glanville influence. I don't see any Jerry Glanville in Richard Smith's defense. That's not necessarily a complement.
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Old 09-01-2008   #22
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Default Re: Dale Robertson article on the Texans' Defense ...or lack of

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
I keep reading this line from the "Fire Richard Smith" crowd . . . "We have way too much talent . . . "

Really? Where?

Other than Mario, Demeco, and maybe Amobi, where is all this exceptional talent that's being referred to?
Let me flip that question around on you...
on offense, outside of Andre Johnson, where is the "exceptional talent"?
before last season, all the talking heads all said we have none, yet the offense produced. .

I suppose my problem is that I see the offense producing without loads of "exceptional talent" and its because of the scheme. ....is it too much to ask that the defense employ a scheme that gets max use out of what we have?
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Old 09-01-2008   #23
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Default Re: Dale Robertson article on the Texans' Defense ...or lack of

It is not just about blitz's. In most schemes you have options where you blitz and not drop the other DE into coverage or you use a zone because you think your front 4 can get to the QB. I am not sure I have ever seen where we blitz a safety or CB or LB and not drop Weaver into pass coverage.

No one is just meaning blitzing like a crazy person but something that you see and say wow I did not see that coming that was a great change of action on the D side and we stopped them. Most of the time you know exactly what is going on and are not fooled the slighest bit.
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Old 09-01-2008   #24
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Default Re: Dale Robertson article on the Texans' Defense ...or lack of

how about this...?
we've put the opposition in 3rd & long.
Perfect time for their offense to use a draw or a screen. So we should be ready, right.
Yet how many times have we seen a screen pass go against us for big yds?
Most teams use a LB or DE to tie up the RB so that the screen will not work.
Not us. Why is that? ...is that just because we don't have "exceptional talent"?
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Old 09-01-2008   #25
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Default Re: Dale Robertson article on the Texans' Defense ...or lack of

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Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
That may be part of it. I just don't see any point in a well-telegraphed blitz and then giving a 9-yd. cushion on the outside when it's 3rd and 6.

If you're going to concede the underneath play for the first, why bother with the blitz? If you're rolling the dice, roll em both! I like our DBs chances better in the first 6-7 steps than I do giving the receivers time to find /exploit gaps.

I'd like to see, before his tenure is done, a full-bore gap-shooting blitz w/ PRESS coverage at the same time.
If you want to argue that he's telegraphing his blitzes, the I can go with that. But we don't have enough speed on the field to disguise them really well. You want Molasses Greenwood blitzing? If he starts on 2nd down he might get to the QB on 3rd down.

There is a serious lack of talent on the defense at 3 key areas. (I've already gone over that extensively in another thread). Remember Petey giving up those two bombs to Evans? The same play and our safety failed to support on either play. How do you press cover, take the chance that someone doesn't get there in time and leave a young corner (in Bennett) or a bad cover guy (in Reeves) out there to dry? Our offensive production will however, go up, and our time of possession will be insane since it will only take the opposing team 30 seconds every time they get the ball. With our defense in its current state we really need to try to limit possessions. If I was an opposing offense I'd have an outlet on greenwood's side every play. If someone got close enough to my QB I'd have him dump it and watch as Greenwood finally got out of his stance in time to watch the hb barrel past him. I bet even Ron Dayne would look good running a screen against our defense. And it has nothing to do with scheme. We seriously lack team speed.

Mike
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Old 09-01-2008   #26
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Default Re: Dale Robertson article on the Texans' Defense ...or lack of

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Let me flip that question around on you...
on offense, outside of Andre Johnson, where is the "exceptional talent"?
before last season, all the talking heads all said we have none, yet the offense produced. .

I suppose my problem is that I see the offense producing without loads of "exceptional talent" and its because of the scheme. ....is it too much to ask that the defense employ a scheme that gets max use out of what we have?
OK. We ran a vanilla offense in the offseason. Not much about scheme. We were still impressive. That's because we HAVE talent. Take the "scheme" out of it. We were running pretty basic plays for the most part. They were going against pretty basic defenses. We moved the ball. Even against Dallas, Schaub recovered to have a pretty good game. That tells me there is TALENT on this team. That wasn't about trickery, or surprise... very plain.

Now look at defense. Dallas wasn't doing anything unusual. They were pretty vanilla. Our defense was pretty vanilla. Our defense got their asses handed to them. The DL was bad, the LBs were bad and the DBs were bad. Could we try a different scheme? Sure. But its fine to draw up a play for someone to get to the QB. But if that guy is too small, too slow, doesn't shed blocks well... it doesn't matter. You're not (to my knowledge) allowed to line up Greenwood between the center and the QB. I think he might be able to disrupt the passing game that way. We have two (maybe 3) play makers on this defense. Tell me. Pick any defensive coordinator in the league. Tell me who would actually make this defense significantly better?

I'm not saying Smith is the right guy for the job. But I'll be pissed, if next offseason, we change DCs and don't make significant upgrades to the defense.

Mike
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Old 09-01-2008   #27
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Default Re: Dale Robertson article on the Texans' Defense ...or lack of

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Here's the link

this gives you a flavor of the article on the whole...


but this speaks volumes to the nature of our defensive issues...


How can Richard Smith get the "studs" you guys say he needs to be successful if he doesn't care who we draft??

To steal from Bill Parcells, how can we expect Smith "to cook the meal" if he doesn't care where the groceries come from or help pick them out??
Just my 2 cents, when Richard Smith said that "he doesnt care who we draft", I think he was mostly saying that he *should* be able to put together a servicable defense with the players he is given, without throwing Rick Smith or Kubiak under the bus. Obviously, he's not going to say, "Hey, they aren't giving me any premium players, how can I succeed?" This is pretty classic where rather than playing the blame game, the person being interviewed instead blames themselves. Again, just my 2 cents.
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Old 09-01-2008   #28
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Default Re: Dale Robertson article on the Texans' Defense ...or lack of

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
If you want to argue that he's telegraphing his blitzes, the I can go with that. But we don't have enough speed on the field to disguise them really well. You want Molasses Greenwood blitzing? If he starts on 2nd down he might get to the QB on 3rd down.

There is a serious lack of talent on the defense at 3 key areas. (I've already gone over that extensively in another thread). Remember Petey giving up those two bombs to Evans? The same play and our safety failed to support on either play. How do you press cover, take the chance that someone doesn't get there in time and leave a young corner (in Bennett) or a bad cover guy (in Reeves) out there to dry? Our offensive production will however, go up, and our time of possession will be insane since it will only take the opposing team 30 seconds every time they get the ball. With our defense in its current state we really need to try to limit possessions. If I was an opposing offense I'd have an outlet on greenwood's side every play. If someone got close enough to my QB I'd have him dump it and watch as Greenwood finally got out of his stance in time to watch the hb barrel past him. I bet even Ron Dayne would look good running a screen against our defense. And it has nothing to do with scheme. We seriously lack team speed.

Mike
I also remember them changing coverage against the Bills at Kubiak's prompting. And blitzing after the disastrous first three games of 06 at Kubiak's prompting. Despite what he says about being "aggressive," everything about Richard Smith's defense is reactionary. I don't doubt that a part of this has been to cover up deficiencies due to injuries and talent level, but as I said before, isn't a predictable defense with poor talent worse than an unpredictable defense with poor talent? Sure the defense has been vanilla in pre-season, but there nothing in the history of Smith's tenure to suggest that will change in the regular season.

Just as an example, most teams have difficulty rushing the passer with just the front four - at least one, if not two are going to be double-teamed at all times, and even the best DE's will "lose" the battle one-on-one against an average OT the majority of the time. Even against the Titans, we had the most problems when they overloaded one side with a corner or safety blitz. I don't remember seeing that once since Smith took over, even when Dunta was healthy. DeMeco hasn't blitzed since 06.

That said, I agree there's not a whole lot else Smith can currently do with Weaver, Greenwood, Reeves, and an undersized DT pairing starting. We've wiped the bad contracts on the offensive side. Why haven't we been able to do so on the other side? The way Kubiak has talked about how he's going to run the ball to increase time of possession to help the whole team suggest he knows there are serious deficiencies on defense that can't be papered over by a change in scheme.

I guess I'm saying there's plenty of blame to go around to everyone.
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Old 09-01-2008   #29
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Default Re: Dale Robertson article on the Texans' Defense ...or lack of

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Originally Posted by buddyboy View Post
Just my 2 cents, when Richard Smith said that "he doesnt care who we draft", I think he was mostly saying that he *should* be able to put together a servicable defense with the players he is given, without throwing Rick Smith or Kubiak under the bus. Obviously, he's not going to say, "Hey, they aren't giving me any premium players, how can I succeed?" This is pretty classic where rather than playing the blame game, the person being interviewed instead blames themselves. Again, just my 2 cents.
okay. so Richard Smith takes one in the press for the bossman. I can sorta see that happening. I'm not totally sure I believe it, but its not unreasonable...
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Old 09-01-2008   #30
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Default Re: Dale Robertson article on the Texans' Defense ...or lack of

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Originally Posted by Rex King View Post
Even against the Titans, we had the most problems when they overloaded one side with a corner or safety blitz. I don't remember seeing that once since Smith took over, even when Dunta was healthy. DeMeco hasn't blitzed since 06.
Didn't Ryans blitz, sack Collins, force a fumble, recover the fumble, and score a TD in that same Titans game?



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Old 09-01-2008   #31
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Default Re: Dale Robertson article on the Texans' Defense ...or lack of

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Smith
It takes time,” Smith said. “Would we like to be the No. 1 defense in the league? Yes, we would. Right now we’ve got a ways to go to get there, but that’s what we’re working toward.
Why doesn't someone follow that statement up with the observation that in his quest to become the #1 defense he's still sitting at 24th in yards allowed and has improved from 25th to 22nd in points allowed. We're very nearly going nowhere following this guys "plan".
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Old 09-01-2008   #32
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Default Re: Dale Robertson article on the Texans' Defense ...or lack of

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyboy
Just my 2 cents, when Richard Smith said that "he doesnt care who we draft", I think he was mostly saying that he *should* be able to put together a servicable defense with the players he is given, without throwing Rick Smith or Kubiak under the bus. Obviously, he's not going to say, "Hey, they aren't giving me any premium players, how can I succeed?" This is pretty classic where rather than playing the blame game, the person being interviewed instead blames themselves. Again, just my 2 cents

Hmmm , by my account the Texans spent four #1's on DL in consecutive years Mario Williams , Travis Johnson , Jason Babin and Amobe Okoye.
Throw in Dunta as a #1 and Demeco in the second , thats quite a bit invested in the defense. This years draft is the first I can recall them taking an offensive player in the first round since AJ . I dont think he can get by with the "I wasnt given premium players excuse" ....
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Old 09-01-2008   #33
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Default Re: Dale Robertson article on the Texans' Defense ...or lack of

To re-enforce my above post ....


Link


2008 draft

rd 3 Antwaun Molden CB

rd 4 Xavier Adibi OLB

rd 5 Frank Okam DT

rd 6 Dominique Barber FS


2007 draft

rd 1 Amobi Okoye DT

rd 4 Fred Bennett CB

rd 5 Brandon Harrison DB

rd 7 Zach Diles LB


2006 draft

rd 1 Mario Williams DE

rd 2 DeMeco Ryans MLB

2005 draft

rd 1 Travis Johnson DT

rd 6 C.C. Brown SS

rd 7 Kenneth Pettway LB

2004 draft

rd 1 Dunta Robinson CB

rd 1 Jason Babin OLB

rd 4 Glenn Earl SS

rd 6 Vontez Duff CB

rd 6 Jammal Lord DB (QB in college)

rd 6 Charlie Anderson LB

rd 7 Raheem Orr DE

2003 draft

rd 1 Andre Johnson WR

Looks to me as if the defensive side of the ball was afforded some premium picks . Even with the ommission of the 04 draft when Smith wasnt a part of the staff .
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Old 09-01-2008   #34
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Default Re: Dale Robertson article on the Texans' Defense ...or lack of

I know that we can't fix every position in one year. But one thing bothers me alot, and that is the fact that do you realize with all the secondary we've mixed and matched, we don't have ONE true free safety (rookie, veteran or otherwise) on the roster. You can try to use a strong safety and dress him up........and you still have a strong safety........and a frying waiting to happen........as has repeatedly happened.
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Old 09-01-2008   #35
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Default Re: Dale Robertson article on the Texans' Defense ...or lack of

First off, bravo to Dale Robertson for writing an article that wasn't just rehash.

I believe it is the first time that any reporter has acknowledged that Richard Smith might be in trouble:

Quote:
A review of their depth chart suggests a lack of draft-day parity between the offense and the defense over the years. It also explains why no assistant on third-year coach Gary Kubiak’s staff squirms on a hotter seat than defensive coordinator Richard Smith.
Quote:
It takes time,” Smith said. “Would we like to be the No. 1 defense in the league? Yes, we would. Right now we’ve got a ways to go to get there, but that’s what we’re working toward. I don’t look at where (players are) drafted or how many we’ve drafted on defense versus offense. My philosophy is I’ll never make an excuse. It’s our job to coach these players we have, to make them execute well enough for us to win ballgames.
Various thoughts:

How much time? The team will be young next year too, and Smith will be acquring more defensive players to develop for whatever the heck 4-3 the Texans are running.

He should feel happy that the Chronicle didn't use the Football Outsider stats that look much much worse.

How many top picks do the Colts spend on defense? Lots of teams in the league put together defenses with players who fit what they do, who aren't necessarily top picks.

Robertson's article does make a good point. The switch to the 4-3 and the squandering of picks during Casserly's time with the team means that the Texans are missing a lot of defensive players who should be in the primes of their career.

I am guessing that the average age of the Texans defensive starters is at the bottom of the league. And the older starters on the team are liabilities at their respective positions.

Youngish Players + Defensive Coordinator Who Is a First Timer in Charge= Ugly defense, and not in the good way.
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Old 09-01-2008   #36
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Default Re: Dale Robertson article on the Texans' Defense ...or lack of

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post

There is a serious lack of talent on the defense at 3 key areas. (I've already gone over that extensively in another thread). Remember Petey giving up those two bombs to Evans? The same play and our safety failed to support on either play. How do you press cover, take the chance that someone doesn't get there in time and leave a young corner (in Bennett) or a bad cover guy (in Reeves) out there to dry? Our offensive production will however, go up, and our time of possession will be insane since it will only take the opposing team 30 seconds every time they get the ball. With our defense in its current state we really need to try to limit possessions. If I was an opposing offense I'd have an outlet on greenwood's side every play. If someone got close enough to my QB I'd have him dump it and watch as Greenwood finally got out of his stance in time to watch the hb barrel past him. I bet even Ron Dayne would look good running a screen against our defense. And it has nothing to do with scheme. We seriously lack team speed.

Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
OK. We ran a vanilla offense in the offseason. Not much about scheme. We were still impressive. That's because we HAVE talent. Take the "scheme" out of it. We were running pretty basic plays for the most part. They were going against pretty basic defenses. We moved the ball. Even against Dallas, Schaub recovered to have a pretty good game. That tells me there is TALENT on this team. That wasn't about trickery, or surprise... very plain.

Now look at defense. Dallas wasn't doing anything unusual. They were pretty vanilla. Our defense was pretty vanilla. Our defense got their asses handed to them. The DL was bad, the LBs were bad and the DBs were bad. Could we try a different scheme? Sure. But its fine to draw up a play for someone to get to the QB. But if that guy is too small, too slow, doesn't shed blocks well... it doesn't matter. You're not (to my knowledge) allowed to line up Greenwood between the center and the QB. I think he might be able to disrupt the passing game that way. We have two (maybe 3) play makers on this defense. Tell me. Pick any defensive coordinator in the league. Tell me who would actually make this defense significantly better?

I'm not saying Smith is the right guy for the job. But I'll be pissed, if next offseason, we change DCs and don't make significant upgrades to the defense.

Mike
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Old 09-01-2008   #37
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Default Re: Dale Robertson article on the Texans' Defense ...or lack of

our problems are solved!
ESPN says we DO have a scheme

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Houston Texans

Offensive scheme: Coach Gary Kubiak has appropriated the stretch-zone running scheme from Denver, where he once served as an assistant. He has hired former Broncos colleague and famed offensive line guru Alex Gibbs. He added coordinator to the duties of quarterbacks coach Kyle Shanahan, whose father is … Mike Shanahan. So why don't the Texans run as effectively as the Broncos? They still are looking for the running back and linemen to execute the scheme to its specifications. Houston's passing game is controlled, yet surprisingly explosive. But Kubiak, who will call plays, wants a run-first approach that sets up the passing game. Short and intermediate passing routes are designed to promote production after the catch and keep QB Matt Schaub from taking too many hits.



Defensive scheme: The Texans have invested heavily in their defensive line and have the makings of a productive front four, led by DE Mario Williams and DT Amobi Okoye. Coordinator Richard Smith expects pass-rush pressure from that group and tries to stay away from the blitz. But the concern is that Houston's secondary lacks adequate depth, speed and cover ability. If the line doesn't squeeze the pocket quickly enough and if opposing passers get enough time to throw, this unit can be exploited. Count on the Texans rolling out a lot of zones and off coverages to protect themselves.
Its all very clear to me now... in order for Richard Smith's defense to succeed we need three more Marios, two more DeMecos and three more Duntas or Fred Bennetts.

Hey, no problem.
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Old 09-01-2008   #38
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Default Re: Dale Robertson article on the Texans' Defense ...or lack of

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
First off, bravo to Dale Robertson for writing an article that wasn't just rehash.

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It takes time,” Smith said. “Would we like to be the No. 1 defense in the league? Yes, we would. Right now we’ve got a ways to go to get there, but that’s what we’re working toward. I don’t look at where (players are) drafted or how many we’ve drafted on defense versus offense. My philosophy is I’ll never make an excuse. It’s our job to coach these players we have, to make them execute well enough for us to win ballgames.
How much time? The team will be young next year too, and Smith will be acquring more defensive players to develop for whatever the heck 4-3 the Texans are running.

Somehow, I believe the problem might be that in his "enthusiasm" Smith has gotten caught in some sort of time warp. Maybe, he should have invested in a more expensive model.


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Old 09-01-2008   #39
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Default Re: Dale Robertson article on the Texans' Defense ...or lack of

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
our problems are solved!
ESPN says we DO have a scheme



Its all very clear to me now... in order for Richard Smith's defense to succeed we need three more Marios, two more DeMecos and three more Duntas or Fred Bennetts.

Hey, no problem.
That was the most depressing link ever.

Compare the write ups on different teams' defenses to ours. Or who different team's coordinators are. It is sad.

It's like getting coal in your stocking or rocks in your Halloween sack or this.
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Old 09-01-2008   #40
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Default Re: Dale Robertson article on the Texans' Defense ...or lack of

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
That was the most depressing link ever.

Compare the write ups on different teams' defenses to ours. Or who different team's coordinators are. It is sad.

It's like getting coal in your stocking or rocks in your Halloween sack or this.

now I feel guilty for posting it...
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