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Old 08-23-2008   #1
Polo
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Default Weaver, Greenwood, Reeves....

Are the biggest problems with our defense IMHO.

I know some may not agree and think it's the D-coordinator, but I'm not going to discuss that anymore because my minds pretty much made up re: that subect.

Back to the three worse players on our defense.

If I'm not mistaken, a lot of times these guys are on the same side of the field together....

Weaver doesn't do much well IMO, except not get pushed back too much. He's doesn't rush the passer well, he's not all that quick out his stance and he's not that quick once he gets going. His run support is supposed to be his strength but he gets mauled inside at DT and at DE he's virtually invisible except when he's sloth footedly dropping into coverage.

Morlon Greenwood. A good guy. Not that great a football player. He's terrible IMO at the position he plays...This does two things...It severlely hurts us in pass coverage and in run support...He offers no help to DB's on underneath routes, and he gets dizzified in the run game. None of our LB's are particulary great against the pass, but I'm tempted to say Zach Diles is challenging Demeco for our best LB in pass coverage.

Jaque Reeves is scared. He's scared of getting beat in pass coverage and he's scared of being physical. There isn't a route that can't be completed on his side. He's not physical enough or good enough to break up short slants and he isn't talented enough to stick with recievers down field.

IMO, these are the three biggest problems on our defense. That's three MAJOR weaknesses on every level of the defense. Not sure how you scheme or play to our strengths when we really have none.

Blitzes don't work because we don't have guys that can get there. I'd say we have one good blitzer (in Demeco) at LB, and one o.k blitzer at DB is CC...

I really don't think there's a lot of hope on that side of the ball besides hoping our guys can find it in them to come up with unexpected big plays. We aren't going to impose our will on too many teams defensively this year. I think when we win games it will be because guys have made some unexpected big plays and our offense is clicking.

JMO.

Last edited by Polo; 08-23-2008 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 08-23-2008   #2
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Default Re: Weaver, Greenwood, Reeves....

Weaver doesn't fit the 4-3. He's a 3-4 DE at best. He stinks. Slow, no pass rush moves, gets mashed against the run. Terrible investment in him.

Greenwood, I really don't know what to think about him right now. He started off last season slow, but came on strong toward the end of the season. He doesn't play good assignment football though. He seems to be out of place too much. Adibi will take his place soon enough.

I'm not too overly concerned with Reeves. He's just a band-aid right now. Once Dunta comes back, he's on the bench. Not a smart signing by Rick Smith.
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Old 08-23-2008   #3
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Default Re: Weaver, Greenwood, Reeves....

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Greenwood, I really don't know what to think about him right now. He started off last season slow, but came on strong toward the end of the season. He doesn't play good assignment football though. He seems to be out of place too much. Adibi will take his place soon enough.
I'm sorry, but I don't know what anyone ever saw in Greenwood...

He's Jay foreman with a +1 boost...

He's never been anything more than a guy who knew his assignments and had some decent quickness..

He lacks strength, aggressiveness and instinct....He can't blitz, cover, or make plays in run support...

He knows his assignments though....

how many times have we seen Greenwood make plays on the other side of the line of scrimmage since he's been here ????

Just from pre-season I've seen Diles in the opponents backfield more than Greenwood has since he's been here. Passive linebacking makes for easy picking running and passing for opposing offenses.
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Old 08-23-2008   #4
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Default Re: Weaver, Greenwood, Reeves....

Glad you mentioned those three guys, because I'm just now watching the game--it's in the 3rd quarter--and all three of those guys are getting pwned.

Reeves took a very very bad angle on the TE (Bennett). All he had to do is stand his ground, form tackle, and there were three more players who would come to help him take Bennett down (yards from the first down marker). One of those three guys, Weaver, then ALSO took a very very bad angle on Bennett. Had it not been for DEMECO RYANS stabbing an arm out there and basically arm tackling a TE...it would have been really bad.

Greenwood is slow. Reeves is constantly picked on, like the Saints' Jason David, and Weaver is just always out of position.

If we didn't have DeMeco Ryans and Fred Bennett, we'd be really awful.

As it stands, we're only "awful" thus far.

And we have a questionable defensive coordinator.

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Old 08-23-2008   #5
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Default Re: Weaver, Greenwood, Reeves....

I'm guessing Adibi didn't play in this game either seeing as he wasn't credited for a tackle. Hopefully hes better by next week and gets a ton of reps but I really wish he was healthy so we could see if he is an option.

Having said that I think its important for everyone to take a deep breath, step back a bit, and look at the big picture here. Dallas is one of the top 2-3 offenses in the entire league and they handed it to us last night. Well, mama said there'd be days like this and considering it was preseason I'm not going to give up on this unit.

Anyway the big picture is that when you look at this defense and the one we had at the end of last year, this defense should perform better throughout the course of a 16 game NFL regular season and I believe it will. Every position is either the same or very slightly improved. I know thats not saying much for a defense that gave up about 24 points per game but lets take a look at each position:

On the D-line its close to the same as last year, Mario has another year under his belt (He was invisible last preaseason btw) Amobi has another year under his belt (And he is still the 4th youngest player in the NFL if I'm not mistaken) TJ isn't going to be anything special and at the other DE spot at least Cochran is pushing Weaver. I still have faith that Colvin has something left in the tank. If Okam works his way into the rotation it could be a small plus as well but overall this unit is still a player or two away, just like it was last year.

At LBer we have Demeco and we all know what he can do. Does anyone really believe Diles is a downgrade over Danny Clark? Hes probably not going to be a real impact player but I think this is a small upgrade at least. Morlon is Morlon, nothing special and hopefully Adibi comes along fast because I really believe he will show up ala Slaton on offense. Overall though this unit hasn't changed much.

Secondary: Bennett has another year and showed a lot of promise last season. Reeves is replacing Von Hutchins who was every bit as bad as Reeves if not worse and the only reason no one roasted him was because he wasn't getting paid a lick(Not saying Reeves isn't looking like a bad signing but he isn't worse than what we had at the end of last year). Moulden is inexperienced and will have his share of bad plays but who was our third corner last year Faggins? At safety Demps gets a whole offseason and he isn't robotic arm man this year. CC is a decent player. If Dunta gets back and plays well he will be a nice boost for this unit and the defense/team as a whole.

Overall what I'm saying is that we survived with this defense last year and I don't think theres any reason to expect a step back. I would say that we are certainly an offense oriented team right now and the main improvements from the defense will come from our improved running game and hopefully less turnovers than we had last year. I still expect the defense to give up about 22.5-23 points per game which, although a small step, is a step nonetheless. I'd be curious if anyone believes the defense will take a step back and their reasons.
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Old 08-23-2008   #6
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Default Re: Weaver, Greenwood, Reeves....

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Last edited by Jackie Chiles; 08-23-2008 at 02:32 PM. Reason: checked the wrong preaseason score
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Old 08-23-2008   #7
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Default Re: Weaver, Greenwood, Reeves....

Per Keith Weiland's Salary Cap page and some guestimation on my part here are the following cap situations of Weaver and Greenwood:

Weaver will cost us 6.2m if he is on the roster this year. If we cut him we would be on the hook for 8.1m (2.7m bonus allocation per year) as he is sigend through 2010. Therefore, before any fuzzy accounting, it would cost us 1.9m (8.1m minus 6.2m) to release him and have a roster spot. He is as good as gone, if there is someone who has looked better in camp. Since I have not been at camp I certainly cannot provide a valued opinion. All I know is that he is extremely expensive for the "value" he provides on the field.

Greenwood will cost us 4.017m if he is on the roster this year. He is signed through 2009 and his bonus allocation is 2.9m for the two years. Therefore, 4.017m minus 2.9m means we have immediate cap relief to the tune of ~1.1m by cutting him.

Therefore, if we cut them both it will cost us 800k this year on the surface. This is not a failsafe look as there are determiners, formulas and variables that must be considered, but on the surface an 800k pricetag on a 109m Cap is peanuts to get rid of these two players and get some playing time for some younger folk.
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Old 08-23-2008   #8
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Default Re: Weaver, Greenwood, Reeves....

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Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles View Post
Does anyone really believe Diles is a downgrade over Danny Clark? Hes probably not going to be a real impact player but I think this is a small upgrade at least. Morlon is Morlon, nothing special and hopefully Adibi comes along fast because I really believe he will show up ala Slaton on offense. Overall though this unit hasn't changed much.
Did you know that Danny Clark is now the starting WLB for the Giants?

On the whole, I agree with you. This unit should perform better than the unit we put on the field last year.

But the unit we put on the field last year didn't out perform the unit that ended the season the year before. Over the last 13 games of the season 2 years ago, our defense was actually pretty good. (The first 3 games of the season 2 years ago were one of the worst 3 game stretches by a defense... evar.)

Just having better and more experienced players doesn't mean that we're going to improve. And if we're going to have a winning season, our defense needs to improve.
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Old 08-23-2008   #9
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Default Re: Weaver, Greenwood, Reeves....

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Did you know that Danny Clark is now the starting WLB for the Giants?
Yeah I saw him a couple weeks ago getting interviewed on Rome but I definitely think Diles will have a better year. Danny Clark is like an all time band aid and while he is physical Diles is a much better athlete imo. Clark is another one of those guys that doesn't get paid so people don't complain if he isn't playing at a really high level.
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Old 08-23-2008   #10
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Default Re: Weaver, Greenwood, Reeves....

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Originally Posted by Jackie Chiles View Post
Yeah I saw him a couple weeks ago getting interviewed on Rome but I definitely think Diles will have a better year. Danny Clark is like an all time band aid and while he is physical Diles is a much better athlete imo. Clark is another one of those guys that doesn't get paid so people don't complain if he isn't playing at a really high level.
What's interesting to me is that he's playing WILL for the Giants.

Either the Giants are making a big mistake (which could very well be) or we made a very big mistake in how we used him (which could also very well be.) It's going to be interesting to see how he performs for them.
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Old 08-23-2008   #11
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Default Re: Weaver, Greenwood, Reeves....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro View Post
Per Keith Weiland's Salary Cap page and some guestimation on my part here are the following cap situations of Weaver and Greenwood:

Weaver will cost us 6.2m if he is on the roster this year. If we cut him we would be on the hook for 8.1m (2.7m bonus allocation per year) as he is sigend through 2010. Therefore, before any fuzzy accounting, it would cost us 1.9m (8.1m minus 6.2m) to release him and have a roster spot. He is as good as gone, if there is someone who has looked better in camp. Since I have not been at camp I certainly cannot provide a valued opinion. All I know is that he is extremely expensive for the "value" he provides on the field.

Greenwood will cost us 4.017m if he is on the roster this year. He is signed through 2009 and his bonus allocation is 2.9m for the two years. Therefore, 4.017m minus 2.9m means we have immediate cap relief to the tune of ~1.1m by cutting him.

Therefore, if we cut them both it will cost us 800k this year on the surface. This is not a failsafe look as there are determiners, formulas and variables that must be considered, but on the surface an 800k pricetag on a 109m Cap is peanuts to get rid of these two players and get some playing time for some younger folk.

thats great except what happens if adibi becomes the starter and gets injured?

either way its somewhat delusional to think either wont make the 53.. whether they should be starters is another thing
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Old 08-23-2008   #12
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Default Re: Weaver, Greenwood, Reeves....

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thats great except what happens if adibi becomes the starter and gets injured?

either way its somewhat delusional to think either wont make the 53.. whether they should be starters is another thing
Right now they are bodies occupying space. Smith has been much better in surfing the waiver wire and with the draft than he is in off-season FA acquisitions. Leverage his competency while getting his younger players minutes is fine by me. We know what Greenwood and Weaver can't do. As much as this about money, it is about getting snaps for players to fail and eventually produce.

Lastly, a good coach or scheme can hide players' deficiencies to some degree - I don't think a master defensive coach could hide Weaver's in his current state and in this scheme. Nice guy, bad fit.
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Old 08-23-2008   #13
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Default Re: Weaver, Greenwood, Reeves....

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Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro View Post
Right now they are bodies occupying space. Smith has been much better in surfing the waiver wire and with the draft than he is in off-season FA acquisitions. Leverage his competency while getting his younger players minutes is fine by me. We know what Greenwood and Weaver can't do. As much as this about money, it is about getting snaps for players to fail and eventually produce.

Lastly, a good coach or scheme can hide players' deficiencies to some degree - I don't think a master defensive coach could hide Weaver's in his current state and in this scheme. Nice guy, bad fit.
i have no problem with what you're saying (trying to get adibi,cochran PT) except why should we cut weaver and morlon when we'd be left with nothing behind them. they're vets that know the scheme and could replace an injured guy
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Old 08-23-2008   #14
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Default Re: Weaver, Greenwood, Reeves....

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i have no problem with what you're saying (trying to get adibi,cochran PT) except why should we cut weaver and morlon when we'd be left with nothing behind them. they're vets that know the scheme and could replace an injured guy
Yeah.

The best guys should be playing and the second best guys should be backing them up. It doesn't make sense to just cut Morlon or Reeves or even Ahman unless we absolutely can't use them. If nothing else, they can give us good, if expensive, depth.

But if they're not the best players and don't give us the best chance to win, they shouldn't be on the field. And the more I watch Greenwood, the more I think that he's regressing.
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Old 08-23-2008   #15
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Default Re: Weaver, Greenwood, Reeves....

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Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro View Post
Weaver will cost us 6.2m if he is on the roster this year. If we cut him we would be on the hook for 8.1m (2.7m bonus allocation per year) as he is sigend through 2010. Therefore, before any fuzzy accounting, it would cost us 1.9m (8.1m minus 6.2m) to release him and have a roster spot.
The Texans are still on the hook for the $8.1 mil of unamortized bonus to Weaver. But since it is now past June 1st, the team would only have to take on the '08 allocated bonus pay ($2.7 mil) on this year's cap. So the Texans would actually save $3.5 mil (Weaver's '08 salary) on the cap this year. But would take a beating of $5.4 million in dead money on the 2009 cap.

I'm not a fan of the Charley Casserly school of "cut now, pay later" cap management. But if the Texans could find a defender with the $3.5 mil that could help this team via a trade, I think they should. Whatever Weaver once had when he signed that monstrous contract, he's lost. He's not one of the 53 best players on this roster. I think it's time to move on and move Weaver out.
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Old 08-23-2008   #16
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Default Re: Weaver, Greenwood, Reeves....

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Did you know that Danny Clark is now the starting WLB for the Giants?
On the whole, I agree with you. This unit should perform better than the unit we put on the field last year.

But the unit we put on the field last year didn't out perform the unit that ended the season the year before. Over the last 13 games of the season 2 years ago, our defense was actually pretty good. (The first 3 games of the season 2 years ago were one of the worst 3 game stretches by a defense... evar.)

Just having better and more experienced players doesn't mean that we're going to improve. And if we're going to have a winning season, our defense needs to improve.
Danny Clark may be an example of coaching and coaching game planning "making the man." Some of our D coaching/scheming may be
discouraging development.
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Old 08-23-2008   #17
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Default Re: Weaver, Greenwood, Reeves....

I've been saying for ever that Greenwood is average at best and Weaver was a desperation signing because we were switching defense and had no Defensive ends. This next draft will be heavily on the defensive side of the ball.
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Old 08-25-2008   #18
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Default Re: Weaver, Greenwood, Reeves....

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Danny Clark may be an example of coaching and coaching game planning "making the man." Some of our D coaching/scheming may be
discouraging development.
If Danny Clark has a break-out year then I think that's definitely a possibility...
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Old 08-25-2008   #19
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Default Re: Weaver, Greenwood, Reeves....

if anyone needs to see more proof that Richard Smith sucks, I am not sure they will ever come to that conclusion. If it ain't obvious yet, I doubt it ever will be.
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Old 08-25-2008   #20
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Default Re: Weaver, Greenwood, Reeves....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro View Post
Per Keith Weiland's Salary Cap page and some guestimation on my part here are the following cap situations of Weaver and Greenwood:

Weaver will cost us 6.2m if he is on the roster this year. If we cut him we would be on the hook for 8.1m (2.7m bonus allocation per year) as he is sigend through 2010. Therefore, before any fuzzy accounting, it would cost us 1.9m (8.1m minus 6.2m) to release him and have a roster spot. He is as good as gone, if there is someone who has looked better in camp. Since I have not been at camp I certainly cannot provide a valued opinion. All I know is that he is extremely expensive for the "value" he provides on the field.

Greenwood will cost us 4.017m if he is on the roster this year. He is signed through 2009 and his bonus allocation is 2.9m for the two years. Therefore, 4.017m minus 2.9m means we have immediate cap relief to the tune of ~1.1m by cutting him.

Therefore, if we cut them both it will cost us 800k this year on the surface. This is not a failsafe look as there are determiners, formulas and variables that must be considered, but on the surface an 800k pricetag on a 109m Cap is peanuts to get rid of these two players and get some playing time for some younger folk.
I agree that Weaver has been underwhelming, but when you are a team with minimal depth, the thought of starting 2 rookie LBs is not something I'm OK with.

I dont think Greenwood is stellar, but he's certainly not a liability. Phase someone in later in the year if you have to, but don't start Abidi and Diles with Ryans in the middle.
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