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Old 08-23-2008   #41
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
OK. I've seen the fire Smith thread. I completely disagree. I think what we saw today, with relatively vanila offense vs relatively vanilla defense, is that we don't have the talent yet. Our DBs were HORRIBLE. Our LBS were slow and our DL was ineffective in the pass rush. In the preseason, that's not the coordinator. That's the players. The fact is we have several HUGE holes on this defense.

First, our CBs. With the exception of a few plays, the whole group looked awful. I know Romo had time to throw, but no one was effectively covered even from the start of several plays. Bennett has potential but I didn't see anyone else that resembled NFL coverage. DC can't do that, oh and you can't really blitz effectively if you can't cover.

Our LBs. Tackling was terrible all the way around. I love Ryans, but he looked flat tonight. Very flat. Diles had a decent game, but other than the interception, he was getting drug around too.

Our DL was decent against the run, but provided NO pass rush at all. Very few times was anyone close to Romo. I'm speaking of the first team because that's really what matters from this game.

This was a bad game all around by our defense but it doesn't lie at the DCs feet. This is the preseason, and this is vanilla vs vanilla. Its quite obvious that physically we can't (or failed to if we can) compete with them physically. If someone was out there dominating physically and we then turn in a horrible season, then you know its on the DC. We really need to find someone to rush the passer opposite MW. He was getting double teamed all night long and if he's doing that, hes done his job. He's occupying 2 blockers so we should have an advantage. I really don't know how you fix this.

Mike
Mike my problem is the vanilla pre-season defense you speak of continues over into the regular season.Has for the past two years and based on that I think I can fairly conclude that it'll carry over this year again.

I can handle when it looks like our scheme isn't matching up and we're getting over powered. But our players looked confused and out of place. His third year in Smith SHOULD have a better hold on personnel and what he wants to do. I haven't seen the slightest thing that shows me either.

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Originally Posted by Polo View Post
Just because you can't name the players doesn't mean they aren't good...
You might feel a draft because that's a statement going over your head. That's the point just because you haven't heard of them they aren't good. We don't need(although it'd be nice) two pro bowl corners, two pro bowl DT, a guy opposite mario(saying all of these would be very nice though) and a ball hawking nfl prototypical safety to be EFFECTIVE defensively. There are defenses that work with just about as much maybe a bit more then what we have that are much better as a unit.

3 years in I see a coordinator that doesn't have a handle on what he wants to do personnel wise. Sad because I don't think it's lack of good positional coach support.
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Old 08-23-2008   #42
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

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Originally Posted by Polo View Post
Folks are confused around here...

"The players suck...Our entire secondary is garbage and we only have one LB and one D-lineman that do anything"

"Fire the D-coordinator"



Why? Because he can't make guys who aren't worth a damn shut down one of the best and most talented offenses in the leauge ?

Puhhhlease....
This isn't just a one game phenomenon.

What in Richard Smith's background convinces you that he can build a defense from scratch? Even if you believe that the players they have are lacking, what makes you believe that he can put together the pieces and parts to a defense that has a coherant philosophy?
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Old 08-23-2008   #43
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

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Originally Posted by Polo View Post
I'm not sure what you're talking about.

I'd venture to say that most NFL fans have no idea who our recievers are outside of Andre Johnson....I guess they all must suck too...And sometimes lunch pail, blue collar, play hard all the time guys just don't get the recognition...

There are a lot of obscure players around the NFL that contribute simply because the team knows how to draft/sign players that fit what they do..

And yes...I'd say Aaron Ross and Courtland Finnegan are better than Bennett..Aaron Ross is actually pretty damn good IMHO....

But besides all that...Look at the Titans and Giants Defense overall...look at their Linebackers and D-lines....

I'm pretty sure Richard Smith could do more with those defenses simply because of personnel.
You're giving Richard Smith too much credit and not giving Freddie B enough. Switch Swartz and Spagnuola (I probably butchered their names, but they are the DCs for the Titans and Giants, respectively) with Richard Smith right now and I willing to bet any amount of money that makes you nervous that they would get more out of the players the Texans have now than Richard Smith would get out of the players they have. I understand what you are saying about their defenses overall, but coaching plays more into the success of a team than I think your giving credit for.
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Old 08-23-2008   #44
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

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Originally Posted by Goldensilence View Post
You might feel a draft because that's a statement going over your head. That's the point just because you haven't heard of them they aren't good. We don't need(although it'd be nice) two pro bowl corners, two pro bowl DT, a guy opposite mario(saying all of these would be very nice though) and a ball hawking nfl prototypical safety to be EFFECTIVE defensively. There are defenses that work with just about as much maybe a bit more then what we have that are much better as a unit.
Sooooo.....

If we just brought in a new D-coordinator our defense would be measureably better ?

And your last statement is a lie...

I'd venture to say..talent wise...the Texans have one of the worse defenses in the NFL...Sucky Vets...O.k young guys...and more obscure vets...

And two young studs....


LMAO! Yeah folks...It's the D-coordinator....He should have done more last night....

Last edited by Polo; 08-23-2008 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 08-23-2008   #45
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
This isn't just a one game phenomenon.

What in Richard Smith's background convinces you that he can build a defense from scratch? Even if you believe that the players they have are lacking, what makes you believe that he can put together the pieces and parts to a defense that has a coherant philosophy?
There is nothing that leads me to believe he can or cannot be successful.

The man has had TERRIBLE talent on defense since he's gotten here...
Not o.k...not mediocre...not a little off track...

His first yr we were switching schemes....

We don't have the talent in place or the continuity on that side of the ball for me to judge his body of work and say he sucks...

I'm picturing the best defensive co-ordinator....ever....in the same position Smith was in last night and I'm thinking the defense isn't a whole lot better...

Smith can't make Jaque Reeves be physical...he can't make Morlon react quicker..he can't make terrible blitzers becoem good blitzers...

He can Scheme all day but the end results would just be more confusion because we don't have continuity or mature talent on that side of the ball...
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Old 08-23-2008   #46
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
OK. I've seen the fire Smith thread. I completely disagree. I think what we saw today, with relatively vanila offense vs relatively vanilla defense, is that we don't have the talent yet. Our DBs were HORRIBLE. Our LBS were slow and our DL was ineffective in the pass rush. In the preseason, that's not the coordinator. That's the players. The fact is we have several HUGE holes on this defense.

First, our CBs. With the exception of a few plays, the whole group looked awful. I know Romo had time to throw, but no one was effectively covered even from the start of several plays. Bennett has potential but I didn't see anyone else that resembled NFL coverage. DC can't do that, oh and you can't really blitz effectively if you can't cover.

Our LBs. Tackling was terrible all the way around. I love Ryans, but he looked flat tonight. Very flat. Diles had a decent game, but other than the interception, he was getting drug around too.

Our DL was decent against the run, but provided NO pass rush at all. Very few times was anyone close to Romo. I'm speaking of the first team because that's really what matters from this game.

This was a bad game all around by our defense but it doesn't lie at the DCs feet. This is the preseason, and this is vanilla vs vanilla. Its quite obvious that physically we can't (or failed to if we can) compete with them physically. If someone was out there dominating physically and we then turn in a horrible season, then you know its on the DC. We really need to find someone to rush the passer opposite MW. He was getting double teamed all night long and if he's doing that, hes done his job. He's occupying 2 blockers so we should have an advantage. I really don't know how you fix this.

Mike
but all those faults scream that it IS the defensive coordinator.
Vanilla or not, what's our defensive M.O.??
Can you tell me?
How do you know who to draft if you can't identify your defensive philosopy?
How do you know what F/As fit your scheme when there is no scheme?
Are we a beat 'em senseless defense so that you go for size and strength up front or are we a pursue and gang tackle defense so that you get players with speed and quickness?

There are two kinds of successful coaches, IMO.
1) the kind that evaluates who they have and design a scheme to their strengths
and
2) the kind that has a scheme he knows will work and sets about getting people who can execute it and execute it well.

Is Richard Smith either of those?
Not that I can tell.
He needs to go.

We've identified what kind of team we want to be on offense. AND we've brought the players in we thought could thrive (some misses, some hits) in that type of offense.
We need to do the same thing on defense.
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Old 08-23-2008   #47
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

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Originally Posted by Texan JBZ View Post
You're giving Richard Smith too much credit and not giving Freddie B enough. Switch Swartz and Spagnuola (I probably butchered their names, but they are the DCs for the Titans and Giants, respectively) with Richard Smith right now and I willing to bet any amount of money that makes you nervous that they would get more out of the players the Texans have now than Richard Smith would get out of the players they have. I understand what you are saying about their defenses overall, but coaching plays more into the success of a team than I think your giving credit for.
I wish we dould do that for real because I'd take that bet....

Look at what the Texans put on the field defensively...

We have one of the most untalented defenses in the leauge...

And when I say talent I'm talking mature talent...Veteran talent...

We have some talented young guys, but most of the vets are piss poor to slightly above piss poor...

Look at what the Giants and Titans and Jags and Patriots and Colts put on the field talent wise...Even some of the less talented teams in the leauge put out a better cast of guys than what we're putting out now...

You guys can buy into the Richard Smith is the Devil if you want, but I'm not biting...
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Old 08-23-2008   #48
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

I guess it's Richard Smith's fault that Demeco had a bad (by his standards) night yesterday too....

Of course it was the scheme...
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Old 08-23-2008   #49
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

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Originally Posted by Polo View Post
There is nothing that leads me to believe he can or cannot be successful.

The man has had TERRIBLE talent on defense since he's gotten here...
Not o.k...not mediocre...not a little off track...

His first yr we were switching schemes....

We don't have the talent in place or the continuity on that side of the ball for me to judge his body of work and say he sucks...

I'm picturing the best defensive co-ordinator....ever....in the same position Smith was in last night and I'm thinking the defense isn't a whole lot better...

Smith can't make Jaque Reeves be physical...he can't make Morlon react quicker..he can't make terrible blitzers becoem good blitzers...

He can Scheme all day but the end results would just be more confusion because we don't have continuity or mature talent on that side of the ball...
I think I agree with Obsiwan. If you are building a defense for the future, you need to choosing players for your defensive philosophy that is proven. You know the types of guys other teams are trying to go after because you have a sense of their defense. I'm not sure what the Texans are trying to build on defense, or whether Smith is the guy to develop the defense from scratch.

Yes, the Texans need more talent on the defensive side of the ball. But what makes you believe that Smith is the guy who can develop that talent and put together a scheme that makes the players look better than they are?
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Old 08-23-2008   #50
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

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Originally Posted by Polo View Post
I guess it's Richard Smith's fault that Demeco had a bad (by his standards) night yesterday too....

Of course it was the scheme...
It probably doesn't help that the DTs had troubles in the middle. Personally, I didn't think DeMeco had that bad of a game. It did sadden me in a way to see that DeMeco has to take the tackling angles that assume that the DB is going to whiff on the first tackle.

I do worry that DeMeco's knee might not be right. Hopefully I am imagining things.
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Old 08-23-2008   #51
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

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Originally Posted by Polo View Post
Sooooo.....

If we just brought in a new D-coordinator our defense would be measureably better ?

And your last statement is a lie...

I'd venture to say..talent wise...the Texans have one of the worse defenses in the NFL...Sucky Vets...O.k young guys...and more obscure vets...

And two young studs....


LMAO! Yeah folks...It's the D-coordinator....He should have done more last night....
Right away? Possibly but I don't think it could get worse or the players could look more clueless.

I don't lie. The Titans and Giants have been brought up. Hell even a Patrick Kerney-less Seahawks team outside of Trufant. Teams around the NFL do work with about as much talent as we have and have made more from it.

Obsi-wan made a great post.No one is saying walking into the job he wasn't given a bad unit. But 3 years in and I'm seeing marginal improvement and in some places regressive play.

You won't answer what is Richard Smith TRYING to do. If you can you're getting good as guessing.
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Old 08-23-2008   #52
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

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I think I agree with Obsiwan. If you are building a defense for the future, you need to choosing players for your defensive philosophy that is proven. You know the types of guys other teams are trying to go after because you have a sense of their defense. I'm not sure what the Texans are trying to build on defense, or whether Smith is the guy to develop the defense from scratch.

Yes, the Texans need more talent on the defensive side of the ball. But what makes you believe that Smith is the guy who can develop that talent and put together a scheme that makes the players look better than they are?

I've never once said Smith is the guy. Several times I've said he's not great and several times I've said he's not the Devil either. The position can be upgraded, but it's just my opinion that by just upgrading that one coaching spot won't make us meausureably better on defense...

Smith hasn't done anything to make believe he is the guy and he hasn't done anything to make me believe it's his fault our defense sucks.

And I'm pretty sure if Smith could choose the guys he wanted to play on his defense he wouldn't have settled on Jaque Reeves, Greenwood, and Weaver...

Something tells me he'd have aimed a bit higher if he had that luxury.

Gary Kubiak is an offensive guy..Not a shock to me that our offense has made drastic improvements while our defense has struggled...

Honestly I think we just need more off-seasons to get better guys over there...Richard Smith for me is an after thought at this point...fire him keep him...whatever....But don't be shocked when we have the same results...
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Old 08-23-2008   #53
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

Oh and a side issue.

ND Kalu claims that the Texans defense was flat after what happened to Harry Williams. That it took them a while until they learned Williams was moving that they got their heads back into the game. FWIW.
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Old 08-23-2008   #54
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

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Originally Posted by Polo View Post
The man has had TERRIBLE talent on defense since he's gotten here...
Not o.k...not mediocre...not a little off track...
It's a good thing the Texans took DeMeco against Richard Smith's wishes then. Imagine the talent deficit without Ryans at LB if Kubiak hadn't overruled Smith.

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And I'm pretty sure if Smith could choose the guys he wanted to play on his defense he wouldn't have settled on Jaque Reeves, Greenwood, and Weaver...

Something tells me he'd have aimed a bit higher if he had that luxury.
I wouldn't bet on it.
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Old 08-23-2008   #55
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

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Just because you can't name the players doesn't mean they aren't good...
Yep, just ask Freddie Mitchell.
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Old 08-23-2008   #56
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

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Originally Posted by The1ApplePie View Post
Okam needs to start. We need a big fatass in the middle and TJ is officially a bust.

Weaver is terrible and can't rush the pass or stop the run. Start someone else.

Zach Diles... starting?
Read TexanChicks post.... TJ is not a bust, he is playing out of position, and has since he entered the NFL. He's not a run stopper, never was. He can do some of that, but he is a pass rushing DT. Just like Okoye.

Something has to be wrong with Okam.... Kubiak(or Smith, or whoever) is putting Cochran, Kalu, & Weaver in at DT, just like he did, two years ago. We're not getting any push in the middle, and the QB has all kinds of room in front of him to step up, or tie his shoe, or what ever he freak'n feels like.

You can blame TJ if you like, But the problem is much deeper than that. I really don't understand why we bring DEs in, left and right, then try to convert them to DTs.... doesn't make sense.
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Old 08-23-2008   #57
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

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I wish we dould do that for real because I'd take that bet....

Look at what the Texans put on the field defensively...

We have one of the most untalented defenses in the leauge...

And when I say talent I'm talking mature talent...Veteran talent...

We have some talented young guys, but most of the vets are piss poor to slightly above piss poor...

Look at what the Giants and Titans and Jags and Patriots and Colts put on the field talent wise...Even some of the less talented teams in the leauge put out a better cast of guys than what we're putting out now...

You guys can buy into the Richard Smith is the Devil if you want, but I'm not biting...
I agree with you that their are teams in this league that field better defensive talent than the Texans. But, when a team comes out and does what the Cowboys did offensively last night, that falls on poor preparation. That falls on coaching. And last night wasn't some rare game when the defense looks unprepared. It seems to happen all the time. That's Richard Smith's fault. Playing bad is one thing, but being out-schemed and out-coached all the time is another.
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Old 08-23-2008   #58
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Right away? Possibly but I don't think it could get worse or the players could look more clueless.

I don't lie. The Titans and Giants have been brought up. Hell even a Patrick Kerney-less Seahawks team outside of Trufant. Teams around the NFL do work with about as much talent as we have and have made more from it.

Obsi-wan made a great post.No one is saying walking into the job he wasn't given a bad unit. But 3 years in and I'm seeing marginal improvement and in some places regressive play.

You won't answer what is Richard Smith TRYING to do. If you can you're getting good as guessing.

Marginal improvement compared to what ? Or offense ?


Most of the undrafted guys, free agent surprises, and late round talent has gone to offense up until this point..

We've planted some seeds over there, but I'm not really sure where you guys expected our defense to be at this point...especially compared to one of the best offenses in the leauge...playing against a top 3 QB....



And I'm not defending Smith...Honestly I don't think he's all that...

I just don't have the urge to fire him yet. I don't think our defensive problems fall on his shoulders...
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Old 08-23-2008   #59
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

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Originally Posted by Texan JBZ View Post
Playing bad is one thing, but being out-schemed and out-coached all the time is another.

It's easy to draw up great schemes with good players.

I'm pretty sure that if we had a roster full of pro-bowlers a lot of people here could draw up some schemes that will work....
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Old 08-23-2008   #60
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

I don't get it, are you trying to say R.Smith needs a defense full of pro-bowlers to succeed? That kind of reminds me of the Carr agrument when people said not even Peyton could have success in this offense, and Carr would need a offense like Peyton's to succeed. Well we all know how that turned out....
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